5/5/2021 Founder Beliefs

azum4roll

Emperor
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Jul 17, 2018
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Problem of Transcendence is that you have to start building a wonder right after entering a new era, or you waste most of the hammers it provides you. If the wonder you chose has been built by others (which is common because they get earlier yields), you're out of luck unless you pick another tech, pushing you even more behind.
 

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
8,838
Problem of Transcendence is that you have to start building a wonder right after entering a new era, or you waste most of the hammers it provides you. If the wonder you chose has been built by others (which is common because they get earlier yields), you're out of luck unless you pick another tech, pushing you even more behind.

I think CrazyG is arguing that the base yields are so good that it doesn't even matter if you synergize or not....just playing "dumb" and getting a boatload of yields still makes it the best in the game.
 

CrazyG

Deity
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Oct 14, 2016
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Location
Beijing
Even if you don't have a wonder available it's not so bad, just get a bath + armory (as an example).

You'll get a big chunk of :c5culture::c5science::c5faith: so whatever aspect you are behind in, it should help.
 

Thibix Magnus

Warlord
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
154
didn't ceremonial burial also scale with era at some point for the yields on great person? Also, have people tried to use it for the unit loss? I could see it used with Lansknechts (converting gold into faith) or zealotry, but never tried in practice.
 

Gazebo

Lord of the Community Patch
Supporter
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Sep 26, 2010
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Little Rock
Its not 1 per city. Not sure what the exact formula is, but here are the actual amounts.

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60

Code:
int iBaseValue = pReligion->m_Beliefs.GetYieldFromConversion(eYield, GetID(), pLoopCity, true);
                    if (iBaseValue != 0)
                    {
                        int iTempValue = iBaseValue;
                        iTempValue *= (100 + pReligion->m_Beliefs.GetCityScalerLimiter(iNumFollowerCities) * pReligion->m_Beliefs.GetCityScalerLimiter(iNumFollowerCities));
                        iTempValue /= 100;

                        iBaseValue = iTempValue;
                    }

Code:
int CvReligionBeliefs::GetCityScalerLimiter(int iCap) const
{
    CvBeliefXMLEntries* pBeliefs = GC.GetGameBeliefs();

    int iBiggestValue = 0;
    for (BeliefList::const_iterator it = m_ReligionBeliefs.begin(); it != m_ReligionBeliefs.end(); ++it)
    {
        int iValue = pBeliefs->GetEntry(*it)->GetCityScalerLimiter();
        if (iValue != 0)
        {
            if (iValue > iBiggestValue)
            {
                iBiggestValue = iValue;
            }
        }
    }
    if (iBiggestValue == 0)
        return iCap;

    return min(iCap, iBiggestValue);
}
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Also you guys hate food way too much. I agree it is worse than others but half is a bit strong.
Even if you don't have a wonder available it's not so bad, just get a bath + armory (as an example).

You'll get a big chunk of :c5culture::c5science::c5faith: so whatever aspect you are behind in, it should help.

Well often you get so many hammers you waste some even making the most expensive building. Although calling this a drawback is a bit of a stretch.
 

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
8,838
Also you guys hate food way too much. I agree it is worse than others but half is a bit strong..

You may be right. Part of my bias against food is that unhappiness in satellites cities can occur a lot on higher difficulties, and that just wrecks your growth so much that the effective food your getting is much less than it might look on paper. Also food's value craters very hard compared to most other yields. It takes a lot of food to grow a city past like pop 12, and you get ever reducing benefits (cities work their best tiles first, so later pop get "crappier" yields).

However, since this is capital food, which almost never has unhappiness issues, you get the full monty. This combined with how early in the game this is, where that extra growth can still really do some good.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
You may be right. Part of my bias against food is that unhappiness in satellites cities can occur a lot on higher difficulties, and that just wrecks your growth so much that the effective food your getting is much less than it might look on paper. Also food's value craters very hard compared to most other yields. It takes a lot of food to grow a city past like pop 12, and you get ever reducing benefits (cities work their best tiles first, so later pop get "crappier" yields).

However, since this is capital food, which almost never has unhappiness issues, you get the full monty. This combined with how early in the game this is, where that extra growth can still really do some good.

The +8f +8G solves a lot of these issues. 8g generally reduces poverty by two so you can afford two more pops. I have it in the current contrast game and I am very far from being unhappy with pretty big cities.
 

CrazyG

Deity
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
5,782
Location
Beijing
Yeah after playing with Way of the Pilgrim more it might be better than Way of Transcendence, and in this game I'm giving :tourism: 0 value too. 8:c5food: per city is enough to grow more than the Deity AI (I have more Pop than China in my game). I'm working 3 specialists in expansion cities that have 0 farms/deer/bison/anything with more than 2:c5food: and still growing.

8:c5gold: directly solves some poverty and indirectly too because the gold can be used on envoys or buildings for more happiness too.

I think all 3 of Apostolic, Pilgrim and WoT should be nerfed.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
There is also feels like a bit of a disconnect between +8f+8g and getting faith from spreading to other players cities. It makes it a bit weaker because it wants two different things, spread to all and only spread to your cities. But it doesn't matter because +8/+8 is very powerful on its own.
 
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