5th Open Game - Emperor start with no happiness resources nearby
- Thread starter Giaur
- Start date
Very very close spaceship. Took over Rome with cavs and England with artilleries, but meanwhile the other continent was teching like crazy and couldn't incite war between MM and Asoka. Saved by the internet and the fact that Asoka was teching almost as fast as MM. They were both building last part.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1530.CivWarlordsSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1848.CivWarlordsSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1530.CivWarlordsSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1848.CivWarlordsSave
Giaur
War Dancer
@Dirk1302: If there are some civs backwards (f.e. vassals), other civs are less likely to trade.
Example:
Caesar: Divine Right
Lizzy: Divine Right
Mansa: Plastics, Divine Right
Asoka: Plastics, Divine Right
Me: Fission
... then the game mechanics will allow only Divine Right to be the trade option. Plastics won't be trade option since 60% of civs has not knowledge of Plastics. That's also the argument why vassals suck ...
Wang was Friendly towards me for a short period of time, but then I got some tech from Mansa and I received some 'You have traded with our worst enemy' points. Strange thing was that even when Wang was friendly he not always was willing to trade with me.
I cannot see how could I win from point 1725AD, but I will try.
btw. What I followed is not even Farm Economy. There are more workshops, everything is set to Domination and I cannot see how my marines could break Mech-Infantry ...
Example:
Caesar: Divine Right
Lizzy: Divine Right
Mansa: Plastics, Divine Right
Asoka: Plastics, Divine Right
Me: Fission
... then the game mechanics will allow only Divine Right to be the trade option. Plastics won't be trade option since 60% of civs has not knowledge of Plastics. That's also the argument why vassals suck ...
Wang was Friendly towards me for a short period of time, but then I got some tech from Mansa and I received some 'You have traded with our worst enemy' points. Strange thing was that even when Wang was friendly he not always was willing to trade with me.
I cannot see how could I win from point 1725AD, but I will try.
btw. What I followed is not even Farm Economy. There are more workshops, everything is set to Domination and I cannot see how my marines could break Mech-Infantry ...
Giaur
War Dancer
1000AD report. Things go slow ...
----------------------------------------------
Binky123:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 49
Average population: 9.8
Beakers: 246
Hammers: 55
GP's so far: 5
Cottages: 25
Specialists: 1 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Printing Press
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Binky123 spent total 1880 hammers on buildings, 376 on one city and 38.4 on one citizen. Binky123 favours libraries, odeons and theatres.
Snaaty:
----------------------
Total cities: 10
Total population: 48
Average population: 4.8
Beakers: 115
Hammers: 51
GP's so far: 6
Cottages: 6
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Astronomy
CurrentResearch: Nationalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
No foreign trade routes. No wars. One rival met.
Snaaty spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 216 on one city and 45 on one citizen. Snaaty favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Dirk1302:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 44
Average population: 8.8
Beakers: 152
Hammers: 61
GP's so far: 6
Cottages: 11
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Astronomy
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Dirk1302 spent total 2170 hammers on buildings, 434 on one city and 49.3 on one citizen. Dirk1302 favours universities, markets and theatres
Jihe:
----------------------
Total cities: 6
Total population: 45
Average population: 7.5
Beakers: 354
Hammers: 41
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 14 (+2 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Chemistry
Civics: Representation, Vassalage, Slavery, Organized Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.
Jihe spent total 3560 hammers on buildings, 593 on one city and 79 on one citizen. Jihe favours universities, libraries, courthouses and theatres
Shyuhe:
----------------------
Total cities: 8
Total population: 37
Average population: 4.6
Beakers: 140
Hammers: 74
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 4
Specialists: 3
MostAdvancedTechs: Education, Philosophy
CurrentResearch: Liberalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Organizaed religion
Open borders signed with Lizzy. No wars. No other rivals met.
Shyuhe spent total 2790 hammers on buildings, 349 on one city and 75.4 on one citizen. Shyuhe favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Ungy:
----------------------
Total cities: 9
Total population: 47
Average population: 5.2
Beakers: 148
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 2
Cottages: 19
Specialists: 2
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, Paper
CurrentResearch: Education
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.
Ungy spent total 2430 hammers on buildings, 270 on one city and 51.7 on one citizen. Ungy favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Mrchadt:
----------------------
Total cities: 6
Total population: 47
Average population: 7.8
Beakers: 154
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 10
Specialists: 6 (+2 superspecialists)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: -
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Caste System
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Mrchadt spent total 1330 hammers on buildings, 222 on one city and 28.3 on one citizen. Mrchadt favours libraries and aqueducts
Nullspace:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 41
Average population: 8.2
Beakers: 82
Hammers: 52
GP's so far: 9
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 12 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Theology
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Caste System
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Nullspace spent total 1630 hammers on buildings, 326 on one city and 39.8 on one citizen. Nullspace favours libraries and forges
Giaur:
----------------------
Total cities: 8
Total population: 59
Average population: 7.4
Beakers: 158
Hammers: 79
GP's so far: 9
Cottages: 6
Specialists: 15 (+3 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Printing Press, Education
CurrentResearch: Drama
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Caste System, Pacifism
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. 3 rivals met.
Giaur 2280 spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 285 on one city and 38.7 on one citizen. Giaur favours libraries and forges
----------------------------------------------
Binky123:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 49
Average population: 9.8
Beakers: 246
Hammers: 55
GP's so far: 5
Cottages: 25
Specialists: 1 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Printing Press
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Binky123 spent total 1880 hammers on buildings, 376 on one city and 38.4 on one citizen. Binky123 favours libraries, odeons and theatres.
Snaaty:
----------------------
Total cities: 10
Total population: 48
Average population: 4.8
Beakers: 115
Hammers: 51
GP's so far: 6
Cottages: 6
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Astronomy
CurrentResearch: Nationalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
No foreign trade routes. No wars. One rival met.
Snaaty spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 216 on one city and 45 on one citizen. Snaaty favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Dirk1302:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 44
Average population: 8.8
Beakers: 152
Hammers: 61
GP's so far: 6
Cottages: 11
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Astronomy
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Dirk1302 spent total 2170 hammers on buildings, 434 on one city and 49.3 on one citizen. Dirk1302 favours universities, markets and theatres
Jihe:
----------------------
Total cities: 6
Total population: 45
Average population: 7.5
Beakers: 354
Hammers: 41
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 14 (+2 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Chemistry
Civics: Representation, Vassalage, Slavery, Organized Religion
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.
Jihe spent total 3560 hammers on buildings, 593 on one city and 79 on one citizen. Jihe favours universities, libraries, courthouses and theatres
Shyuhe:
----------------------
Total cities: 8
Total population: 37
Average population: 4.6
Beakers: 140
Hammers: 74
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 4
Specialists: 3
MostAdvancedTechs: Education, Philosophy
CurrentResearch: Liberalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Organizaed religion
Open borders signed with Lizzy. No wars. No other rivals met.
Shyuhe spent total 2790 hammers on buildings, 349 on one city and 75.4 on one citizen. Shyuhe favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Ungy:
----------------------
Total cities: 9
Total population: 47
Average population: 5.2
Beakers: 148
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 2
Cottages: 19
Specialists: 2
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, Paper
CurrentResearch: Education
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.
Ungy spent total 2430 hammers on buildings, 270 on one city and 51.7 on one citizen. Ungy favours libraries, courthouses and markets
Mrchadt:
----------------------
Total cities: 6
Total population: 47
Average population: 7.8
Beakers: 154
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 7
Cottages: 10
Specialists: 6 (+2 superspecialists)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: -
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Caste System
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Mrchadt spent total 1330 hammers on buildings, 222 on one city and 28.3 on one citizen. Mrchadt favours libraries and aqueducts
Nullspace:
----------------------
Total cities: 5
Total population: 41
Average population: 8.2
Beakers: 82
Hammers: 52
GP's so far: 9
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 12 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Theology
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Caste System
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.
Nullspace spent total 1630 hammers on buildings, 326 on one city and 39.8 on one citizen. Nullspace favours libraries and forges
Giaur:
----------------------
Total cities: 8
Total population: 59
Average population: 7.4
Beakers: 158
Hammers: 79
GP's so far: 9
Cottages: 6
Specialists: 15 (+3 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Printing Press, Education
CurrentResearch: Drama
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Caste System, Pacifism
Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. 3 rivals met.
Giaur 2280 spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 285 on one city and 38.7 on one citizen. Giaur favours libraries and forges
Giaur
War Dancer
I hope there are no many errors. There will be second part. Overview of most advanced city.
btw. Soon there will be no pictures since the space of my account is shrinking. :[
edit: let me know the page, where I can get free ftp acount ...
btw. Soon there will be no pictures since the space of my account is shrinking. :[
edit: let me know the page, where I can get free ftp acount ...
Excellent write up again, thanks for that. The thing I notice is that I have spent so few hammers. I am also making aquaducts which don't seem to be needed. Forges, libraries, markets, courthouses and universities would be more useful I think.
I got behind a little as I was mistakenly running pacifism with no religion, doh!, I think that cost me a bit. I also missed the sheep/deer city spot c) which has 4 stars. I think my inexperience showed when I made too much early military for defence because I didn't know that england and rome wouldn't attack.
Lots of room for improvement, thanks for all who posted games for comparison.
I got behind a little as I was mistakenly running pacifism with no religion, doh!, I think that cost me a bit. I also missed the sheep/deer city spot c) which has 4 stars. I think my inexperience showed when I made too much early military for defence because I didn't know that england and rome wouldn't attack.
Lots of room for improvement, thanks for all who posted games for comparison.
Dirk1302
Deity
Ok that explains why trade was slow in your game, in my game only Augustus was baxkward, Brennus was Vassal to Mansa and was given all his tech.
Domination is difficult in your game, you have a lot of land though, if you succeed in whipping the necessary infra you might be alble to outtech them?, you've got +/- 120 years to do that, not easy.
@ Giaur: again, great writeup
...
@ all:
I think the main problem in mid-game is, to keep expanding AND keep your research running (and this game in fact developed more like an immortal game concerning research).
A basic rule applies here:
More cities = stronger position
Since I´m a builder, my usual way of doing so is, to block of land and settle like crazy (can be seen in 1000 AD save) or to go to an early/midgame (short) war to gain enough land. I don´t open bordes UNTILL all is settled. This kripples reseach but it is worth it (no matter how deep the hole is, you plunge your economy into, it is STILL worth it). When all is settled, an immediate switch to TE (=Trade economy), open borders with everybody and bribing everybody to free market. Best to favour these buildings then: gren/harbour/lib
and to build as many cities costal as possible (only my innitial blocking cities were inland)
TE will help you keep up with the techdealers quite easy in midgame
Around 1500 AD another civic switch is usually required:
bureau/slavery to national/caste (I normally don´t bother with emancip)
When you now set all your cities to specialize on food/production/research (no micro is required) you will easily keep up with the techclub also in endgame without any cottages (except the early-ones).
Btw. I still think it is a rumour, that TE/FE looses strenght in endgame and isn´t competetive in spacerace (I never bothered building the internet in this game for example)
...
@ all:
I think the main problem in mid-game is, to keep expanding AND keep your research running (and this game in fact developed more like an immortal game concerning research).
A basic rule applies here:
More cities = stronger position
Since I´m a builder, my usual way of doing so is, to block of land and settle like crazy (can be seen in 1000 AD save) or to go to an early/midgame (short) war to gain enough land. I don´t open bordes UNTILL all is settled. This kripples reseach but it is worth it (no matter how deep the hole is, you plunge your economy into, it is STILL worth it). When all is settled, an immediate switch to TE (=Trade economy), open borders with everybody and bribing everybody to free market. Best to favour these buildings then: gren/harbour/lib
and to build as many cities costal as possible (only my innitial blocking cities were inland)
TE will help you keep up with the techdealers quite easy in midgame
Around 1500 AD another civic switch is usually required:
bureau/slavery to national/caste (I normally don´t bother with emancip)
When you now set all your cities to specialize on food/production/research (no micro is required) you will easily keep up with the techclub also in endgame without any cottages (except the early-ones).
Btw. I still think it is a rumour, that TE/FE looses strenght in endgame and isn´t competetive in spacerace (I never bothered building the internet in this game for example)
@ Giaur:
when you are dependent on techtrades, better to help weaker civs. I gifted about 10-15 techs to Rome/England to help them keeping up (But this my also be only a part of my personal playstile... ...TE/FE also depends on MANY BIG AI cities... ...so helping up the week ones helps yourself)
...
And I needed also one of the 2 aluminium Rome had for my Apollo, because I had no aluminium... ...and they were still about 5-6 techs away from discovering it
when you are dependent on techtrades, better to help weaker civs. I gifted about 10-15 techs to Rome/England to help them keeping up (But this my also be only a part of my personal playstile... ...TE/FE also depends on MANY BIG AI cities... ...so helping up the week ones helps yourself)
...
And I needed also one of the 2 aluminium Rome had for my Apollo, because I had no aluminium... ...and they were still about 5-6 techs away from discovering it
I played on a little while, I was more sloppy then usual as I don't think I have a good chance to win. My plan was to get to internet and then use state economy to boost my production.
The problem came from the great war on the other continent, Mansa came to me to be my vassel, I thought that if I accepted the wars would stop and I would have a good trading partner as he had been up to then. But, no, when I accepted him I declared war on all the civs he was at war with. Maybe I need to be at war with him myself for other wars against him to stop, as when peace is declared on your behalf when one civ vasselizes the civ whos land you are taking through war.
The problem came from the great war on the other continent, Mansa came to me to be my vassel, I thought that if I accepted the wars would stop and I would have a good trading partner as he had been up to then. But, no, when I accepted him I declared war on all the civs he was at war with. Maybe I need to be at war with him myself for other wars against him to stop, as when peace is declared on your behalf when one civ vasselizes the civ whos land you are taking through war.
Dirk1302
Deity
You got the Asoka and Wang to destroy MM ?, i tried that he whole game, gifting Asoka and Wang quite a few good techs, didn't help at all, peace was always declared some 10 turns later and no one got hurt.
@ Dirk:
There is a trick when bribing wars:
I bribed Mansa 2 times (I think) to attack Ash, who was stronger militarywise but not that advanced. The wars lasted each about 10 turns, like in your game. But Ash was quite pissed with Mansa after that
Since Mansa was the agressor and Ash was that much stronger, Mansa always stopped invading and took first chance of making peace...
Then I bribed Ash to attack Mansa... ...difference is, that when the stronger nation is the aggressor, they won´t accept peace untill they have quite big losses or captured some cities... ...which ended with Mansa vassalized (during the war, I checked on them quite regulary, and Mansa had the message concerning peace with Ash: ...would love to, but you have to...)
There is a trick when bribing wars:
I bribed Mansa 2 times (I think) to attack Ash, who was stronger militarywise but not that advanced. The wars lasted each about 10 turns, like in your game. But Ash was quite pissed with Mansa after that
Since Mansa was the agressor and Ash was that much stronger, Mansa always stopped invading and took first chance of making peace...
Then I bribed Ash to attack Mansa... ...difference is, that when the stronger nation is the aggressor, they won´t accept peace untill they have quite big losses or captured some cities... ...which ended with Mansa vassalized (during the war, I checked on them quite regulary, and Mansa had the message concerning peace with Ash: ...would love to, but you have to...
)I didn't do anything they did it themselves. I think it could have happened because there were 6 of the 7 religions on their continent. As I said earlier, MM declared on wang when he was Asokas vassel and therefore Asoka and Brennus. It was a huge war lasting for over a 100 years, cities taken and raised by all. I was trading with both sides getting good tech. But they kept asking me to join in. So not good for relations, but it allowed me not to get too far behind in tech.
Dirk1302
Deity
Yes that's a good explanation, i more or less knew that. Problem in my game was that MM was stronger than Asoka and Wang. And while i sometimes had a tech that Asoka or Wang didn't have i was never able to bribe MM. That Asoka guy is quite bribable by the way, far better than Ghandi. I got Wang to declare only once, this guy is really a coward.@ Dirk:
There is a trick when bribing wars:
I bribed Mansa 2 times (I think) to attack Ash, who was stronger militarywise but not that advanced. The wars lasted each about 10 turns, like in your game. But Ash was quite pissed with Mansa after that
Since Mansa was the agressor and Ash was that much stronger, Mansa always stopped invading and took first chance of making peace...
Then I bribed Ash to attack Mansa... ...difference is, that when the stronger nation is the aggressor, they won´t accept peace untill they have quite big losses or captured some cities... ...which ended with Mansa vassalized (during the war, I checked on them quite regulary, and Mansa had the message concerning peace with Ash: ...would love to, but you have to...
I'm playing an immortal game now which is going very well (11 cities 600 ad without going completely broke). I first thought about a domination win to get revenge on AI's for this game
. Maybe i change my mind and build an economic powerhouse using the setup you had in this game as a template.This would mean staying friends with Monty who's the only one left on my conti though.
Edit: i wonder how i can remove the angry icon from my post title or how it got there in the first place?
Giaur
War Dancer
@Snaaty: I am gifting techs sometimes to civs who are very behind in tech. But in my game Caesar, who was my vassal, was researching tech every 40 turns I guess.
And I bribed Wang to war with Mansa. There were two reasons. Malinese and Koreans stopped trading with each other. And the second: I was autentically furious that Mansa vassalized Lizzy first (and declared war on me). Soon Mansa vassalized Wang too :]
@Dirk: I am not sure I have those 120 years. My game is quite advanced I think. There was lot of tech-trading from my part. I rely on this strategy. It's helpful, but man has to count with the fact, the time is running out ...
And I bribed Wang to war with Mansa. There were two reasons. Malinese and Koreans stopped trading with each other. And the second: I was autentically furious that Mansa vassalized Lizzy first (and declared war on me). Soon Mansa vassalized Wang too :]
@Dirk: I am not sure I have those 120 years. My game is quite advanced I think. There was lot of tech-trading from my part. I rely on this strategy. It's helpful, but man has to count with the fact, the time is running out ...
You are right, I think I made a mistake not settling my land, the roman and english cities took to long to contribute to research.
@ Giaur: again, great writeup
...
@ all:
I think the main problem in mid-game is, to keep expanding AND keep your research running (and this game in fact developed more like an immortal game concerning research).
A basic rule applies here:
More cities = stronger position
Since I´m a builder, my usual way of doing so is, to block of land and settle like crazy (can be seen in 1000 AD save) or to go to an early/midgame (short) war to gain enough land. I don´t open bordes UNTILL all is settled. This kripples reseach but it is worth it (no matter how deep the hole is, you plunge your economy into, it is STILL worth it). When all is settled, an immediate switch to TE (=Trade economy), open borders with everybody and bribing everybody to free market. Best to favour these buildings then: gren/harbour/lib
and to build as many cities costal as possible (only my innitial blocking cities were inland)
TE will help you keep up with the techdealers quite easy in midgame
Around 1500 AD another civic switch is usually required:
bureau/slavery to national/caste (I normally don´t bother with emancip)
When you now set all your cities to specialize on food/production/research (no micro is required) you will easily keep up with the techclub also in endgame without any cottages (except the early-ones).
Btw. I still think it is a rumour, that TE/FE looses strenght in endgame and isn´t competetive in spacerace (I never bothered building the internet in this game for example)
Giaur
War Dancer
Things are going better. Short story ...
Spoiler :
Giaur
War Dancer
Second part of 1000AD writeup will be ready tomorrow morning.
Please post 1500-1700AD save no later than on Sunday.
Please post 1500-1700AD save no later than on Sunday.
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