[DLL] (6-83) Allow Recon Units to Cross Other Civs' Territories

[CppMaster]

Proposal: Allow recon units to cross other civs territories without open borders, but do not allow to end the move there. It prevents from pillaging tiles or blocking units. Clarification: The destination tile and the path to it must be visible.

Rational: It solves a little stuck recon units in other territories without abusing.

 

[azum4roll]

I assume this uses the same mechanic as early ships crossing oceans, so they're only able to do so if the destination tile is visible?

 

[adan_eslavo]

I assume this uses the same mechanic as early ships crossing oceans, so they're only able to do so if the destination tile is visible?

Yes, it's kinda similar feature we could start off and see how it performs. If it will be still too much, we can always modify it later on (reduced vision, temporary promotion...).

 

[azum4roll]

If you reduce vision, it'll be more likely to get stuck inside foreign lands.

 

[adan_eslavo]

If you reduce vision, it'll be more likely to get stuck inside foreign lands.

Fair point.

 

[rkkn]

I think this sounds good. I'd also extend it to civilian units.
perhaps I'll make a counterproposal

 

[CppMaster]

I assume this uses the same mechanic as early ships crossing oceans, so they're only able to do so if the destination tile is visible?

Yep, I imagine do.

 

[CppMaster]

I think this sounds good. I'd also extend it to civilian units.
perhaps I'll make a counterproposal

You could just do a separate proposal just for civilian units. It wouldn't conflict with this one anyway.

 

[rkkn]

oh yeah that's true

 

[alchx]

This is not a good proposal.
Imagine that you are somewhere on a peninsula and the entire southern part is free. There are ruins there that you haven't reached yet.
In some games, I specifically bought tiles to block other AI's scouts. Also, if the AI does not explore this southern part, then it will not rush there with its settlers.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I specifically bought tiles to block other AI's scouts.

Is the AI smart enough to do the same?

 

[CppMaster]

This is not a good proposal.
Imagine that you are somewhere on a peninsula and the entire southern part is free. There are ruins there that you haven't reached yet.
In some games, I specifically bought tiles to block other AI's scouts. Also, if the AI does not explore this southern part, then it will not rush there with its settlers.

Yep, after this proposal you'd have to buy more tiles or use your units to block enemy scouts or kill the scouts. Buying just few tiles in order to block a big part of the continent feels gamey anyway. And yeah, AI may not be smart enough about that.

 

[alchx]

Yep, after this proposal you'd have to buy more tiles or use your units to block enemy scouts or kill the scouts. Buying just few tiles in order to block a big part of the continent feels gamey anyway. And yeah, AI may not be smart enough about that.

When going along the Authority branch, you don’t want to buy tiles, because you get bonuses when the borders grow. Also, some civilizations do not want to buy tiles because they also receive bonuses when their borders grow.

This offer encourages the purchase of tiles. Especially before the Industrial Era, in which cities grew to a radius of 3 tiles. It turns out that during the initial 200 turns we buy tiles, although we could invest gold in buildings, units and caravans.

How do you propose blocking other AI's units if there is no state of war? Or if the enemy unit has Ignore ZoC?
It is impossible to keep 10 units near each city.
In addition, AI is unlikely to cope with such a task unless it has a huge army.

 

[APLion]

Tbh, I never get my recon units stuck, and I think that's fair punishment for not paying attention or sending scout to autoexplore

 

[CppMaster]

How do you propose blocking other AI's units if there is no state of war?

I already said: more tiles purchase or unit not blocks. It doesn't need to be easier imho.

Tbh, I never get my recon units stuck, and I think that's fair punishment for not paying attention or sending scout to autoexplore

Auto-explore is how AI explores, so how is it fair punishment to it if it's forced to it?

 

[APLion]

I already said: more tiles purchase or unit not blocks. It doesn't need to be easier imho.

Auto-explore is how AI explores, so how is it fair punishment to it if it's forced to it?

AI is forced into every decision, because it's, well, AI, and you can't really talk about fair punishment for it.

Player, on the other hand, should git gud or suffer consequences.

 

[CppMaster]

Player, on the other hand, should git gud or suffer consequences.

That's the case for every decision. It doesn't mean we can't change rules of the game. That's the point of the VP Congress.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't consider this a git gud kind of thing, I think recon past the first part of the game is pretty boring and tedious, and yeah I like to automate it. So having a means of getting a recon out of stuck would be nice. Is this the way....eh not sure, but I do think its a legitimate prob.em.

 

[Rekk]

The vast majority of the time, recon is getting stuck near the coast. We already made it easier for recon by allowing units to gain technology promotions outside of their borders.

 

[Tekamthi]

Would be nice to see some counter proposals that address the underlying issue here. This is probably one of the better options, given that it would not be all that abusable, but there are other possibilities as well. This one's a little imperfect in that it does not solve all stuck cases, and leaves human with some minor advantage in trapping the AI, probably

For discussion, here's some other notable recon-specific solutions that have been attempted (modmod) or proposed in past:
- free travel regardless of borders
- free travel as long as plot owner has not denounced recently
- free travel if DoF exists
- free travel in some rival terrains/features/improvements but not others
- free travel in territorial border plots, but not interior plots
- free travel along trade routes
- allow recon to 'change port' or otherwise teleport back to city
- free travel in water plots but not land