7 grams - DG with AI Armies
- Thread starter grahamiam
- Start date
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
pounded by diety, but pounding on DG. i have no idea where the comfort level of this team is 
should have rerolled @ diety, me thinks 
Roster:
grahamiam
Kaiser Berger
M60A3TTS
Mailman
Wotan -> UP
Beorn-eL-Feared -> on deck
should have rerolled @ diety, me thinks Roster:
grahamiam
Kaiser Berger
M60A3TTS
Mailman
Wotan -> UP
Beorn-eL-Feared -> on deck
MailMan
delivering
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 507
I just hope that we can finish with spain before any other AI will find us. that way we have a chance to get more techs from TGL.
However I am not sure that we have enough fire power to handle Spain on the first go. I suggest taking / razing few more cities (down south and Santiago), and sign peace. It is very much depanding on the fill in the field and WW.
However I am not sure that we have enough fire power to handle Spain on the first go. I suggest taking / razing few more cities (down south and Santiago), and sign peace. It is very much depanding on the fill in the field and WW.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
MailMan said:
I don't see the correlation between the two, but I don't see the need to send out any more suicide galleys for the time being. We have all the techs we need to deal with Spain. As long as they defend with spears, we just have to keep the forces concentrated. Barcelona with KT should be a priority city, obviously.
OK guys, I have started playing. I got a leader early on and when I transformed him into an army I was only able to load a single Knight into the army. The army has 12 HPs though. This is a bit odd I guess and am curious if this was what was intended when Grahamiam generated the game?
From first page:Wotan said:
Army changes:
1. reduced transport capacity from 3 to 1
2. Added HP bonus = 7
3. Reduced shield cost to 1
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i intended to try out 'poly's army change to see how it felt to play against AI armies 
there are several bugs for how the AI uses Armies in C3C. These are the main ones as I understand them:
1. when the AI gets an MGL, it rushes useless crap like temples or Libraries in corrupt towns.
2. when the AI gets an army, it installs the 1st unit, then looks for another unit with the same movement points. therefore, if it loads a knight, it has to wait till cavs to finish filling them. if it loads a cavalry, it never finishes filling them because there are no 4mp land units in the game.
to alleviate the above 2 problems, i loosely followed the AU mod and changed Army's and Army based wonders as described in the 1st post of this thread. I also reduced the shield cost so the human player could not take advantage of the free armies via the Mil Academy and start disbanding them for useful improvements like factories and power plants.
It seemed to work last game as the AI landed a cav army however, as M60 pointed out, without the multipliers, the armies are weaker than normal C3C armies.
there are several bugs for how the AI uses Armies in C3C. These are the main ones as I understand them:1. when the AI gets an MGL, it rushes useless crap like temples or Libraries in corrupt towns.
2. when the AI gets an army, it installs the 1st unit, then looks for another unit with the same movement points. therefore, if it loads a knight, it has to wait till cavs to finish filling them. if it loads a cavalry, it never finishes filling them because there are no 4mp land units in the game.
to alleviate the above 2 problems, i loosely followed the AU mod and changed Army's and Army based wonders as described in the 1st post of this thread. I also reduced the shield cost so the human player could not take advantage of the free armies via the Mil Academy and start disbanding them for useful improvements like factories and power plants.
It seemed to work last game as the AI landed a cav army
however, as M60 pointed out, without the multipliers, the armies are weaker than normal C3C armies.
Turn log
0 560AD Pre-flight
Why on earth are we building so many Catapults??? I am also a bit puzzled by the fact that we are mining hills near Cuzco? With the corruption the mine will contribute zero shields to Cuzco. The only type of improvements I would like us to do around cities with high corruption is food and roads.
1 570AD.
Tiwanaku Knight -> Knight
Memphis Cathedral ->
Captured Santander.
IBT: 26 Spanish units move near or over our borders in the north!
2 580AD
Cuzco Knight -> Barracks
Machu Picchu Catapult -> Catapult
Pamplona captured.
IBT: Mayans finish building Leos.
3 590AD
Thebes Knight -> Knight
Adrianople Knight -> Knight
Cyrihuayrachina Pike -> Galley
7 Spanish units killed, 16 still near our borders but in position that would expose the units attacking them. Will wait for another turn so they hopefully move into better tiles for us to attack them in. In position to take the final Spanish town, Vitoria, on the southern island.
IBT: Spanish Archer lands near Constantinople
4 600AD
Ollantaytambo Knight -> Knight
Pi Ramesses Knight -> Knight
Vitoria captured. The army with a single Knight in it kills 2 Spearmen and one Archer. I do not think this is a good way to handle Armies. If there was a way to take away the armys extra movement point so the AI would be able to add units to it without having to wait until a unit with the same MP is available?
5 610AD
Less than 10 Spanish units in our immediate area after killing another 9 this turn.
IBT: 4 Spanish Archers dies and we lose a single Knight.
6 620AD
Nicaea Harbour -> Barracks
Byblos Marketplace -> Knight
Hieraconpolis Knight -> Knight
We meet Maya and Mongols.
Santiago captured. I guess the camels back is broken now.
IBT: Engineering, Invention, Theology and Education from TGL. Both Spain and Maya have Astronomy but we did not get it from TGL? Maybe C3C stops at Education no matter how many techs are available?
7 630AD
Thebes Knight -> Knight
Pi-Ramesses Barracks -> HM
El-Amarna Barracks -> HM
4 Archers and one Warrior killed, the final few of the once proud Spanish army... No Spaniards in the open now.
We meet the Ottomans.
8 640AD
Ollantaytambo Settler -> Knight
Smyrna Temple -> Settler
Heraclea Barracks -> Knight
Killed two Archers. Moved into position to attack Barcelona and Toledo.
9 650AD
Memphis Knight -> Knight
Vilcabamba Barracks -> Knight
Vitcos Harbour -> Temple
Toledo captured, 2 Knights lost. Barcelona falls, 2 Knights lost in this attack too.
After action report:
I stopped playing after 9 turns to get us back on the 10 turns schedule.
Spain is just a mopping up affair now. Enough Knights in Barcelona to take Murcia next turn.
The armies: Too strong in this game.
And Just as I am about to go to CFC to upload the save and my report I discover I have forgotten to save the final turn after battles. I have the screen dump and try to redo everything as I had done in the actual turn. Unfortunately I have one less Knight killed when attacking but I disband one so the final number is still the same as after the original attacks. So the picture is actually of the situation after the first attempt to play my turn but as you can see it is almost the same. The army has one more HP than it has in the picture but apart from this I hope everything is as it was after my first attempt
And I have not MMed it after replaying, (just remembered about it)
Stupid, stupid me .
Save
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
TGL would have given us more techs if there were more available, so I'm afraid astronomy is known to only a few.
Playing as we speak
Playing as we speak
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
mp alteration is not available in the editor, it is hard-coded. it was hardcoded by Breakaway so I can't change itWotan said:
A tech is gained from TGL if two or more tribes have it. So we should have recieved Astronomy, at least up until PTW. Not sure about C3C though. The IBT phase gave the message about obsolete TGL immediately after announcing giving us Education so I just interpreted it as "cutting it at that point".Beorn-eL-Feared said:
For a moment there I actually felt we had taken on more than we could manage as the Spaniards came in huge numbers for the first five of six turns. I held them with what can best be described as a thin yellow line. I dared not fight them in anything but clear terrain since losing sveral units per turn would have been more than we could take. I do not think I lost more than about one Knight per turn during that period, always fighting in our territory so the attacking Knight could retreat after fighting or 1 MP units just attacking stacks where they remained with at least 1 tile between them and the border.MailMan said:
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Pre-Turns: MM all of the spanish dudes to research, going for gunpowder since the lower branch is less popular and we can eventually get monopoly techs there. With all the scientists, we get twice the research speed ![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
Settler sent east to re-populate cities, eventually.
Just 2¢ worth of opinion: Abydos should be mined, not irrigated, unless we want a super science city out of a low corruption town.
T1: The first spearman in Murcia takes out 9HP worth of horsemen, and that means 2 deaths
We lose 3 horses total to the angry RNG Gods. I kneel and pledge my allegiance to them again, saying I'll spend more CIV time in the future.
Only noticeable change I did was changing 2 of our good cities from knights to galleys, in prevision for some mass invasion action.
IT: Barcelona flips :suicide: Spain drops an archer by Constantinople.
T2: Send the 7/12 army to take Barcelona back, it will need the support of a 3/5 knight to take out the last HP of resisting spearman.
The zone defense knight does his job at Constantinople.
Meet Mursilis. He is broke, has tech parity but is at OCC.
T3: Knights produced, resisters quelled, foreigners starved. We get a (regular) crusader from Barcelona. The siege of Madrid goes well, no one dies, but some retreat. We don't go completely through, though.
IT: Barcelona flips AGAIN. This gets me thinking about a good old razing for Barcelona and Madrid.
T4: Madrid takes out 4 more knights before burning to the ground.
IT: Bella asks for peace, and would give Astro+Gunpowder for it. Gun due in 1, we can raze Barcelona this turn, so I decline.
T5: Brought the torches to Barcelona, but lost 2 ( *2* ! ) knights there. Lvl 2 WW kicks in, so I'm thinking about signing peace next turn when we have gunpowder.
T6: Spain sends a whooping one longbow, which gets merrily crushed by our joyful new
T7: lvl 2 WW is hurtful so I let her plea for mercy, as she puts it:
Research now on Chemistry, since they will all rush for banking sooner than later.
I calm down on knight production, considering 3 armies will do a lot of good together on the field, and that there are but 3 cities left for the spanishs ... probably 4, maybe 5 top when we can redeclare. Too bad they know everybody
Most of the builds are converted to libraries, with a handful of courts and harbors.
T8: Pentagon building in Thebes
T9: Spot what really looks like the Maya-Mongol frontline, with the mongols losing ground. We need to attack them before they get rifles and infantry methinks.
T10: Nothing much of interest. I leave you with some "zone defense" knights spread around and a settler ready to settle for the wines. We can probably lower luxury down then - we have a bunch of cities who would riot if it lowered, I even have some specialists enroled, but the production cities are all fully happy.
Question: if I signed RoP during the first IT after peace, would it lenghten the 'mandatory' peace by 1 turn? I mean, does it count as the last turn or the present one?
Settler sent east to re-populate cities, eventually.
Just 2¢ worth of opinion: Abydos should be mined, not irrigated, unless we want a super science city out of a low corruption town.
T1: The first spearman in Murcia takes out 9HP worth of horsemen, and that means 2 deaths
We lose 3 horses total to the angry RNG Gods. I kneel and pledge my allegiance to them again, saying I'll spend more CIV time in the future.Only noticeable change I did was changing 2 of our good cities from knights to galleys, in prevision for some mass invasion action.
IT: Barcelona flips :suicide: Spain drops an archer by Constantinople.
T2: Send the 7/12 army to take Barcelona back, it will need the support of a 3/5 knight to take out the last HP of resisting spearman.
The zone defense knight does his job at Constantinople.
Meet Mursilis. He is broke, has tech parity but is at OCC.
T3: Knights produced, resisters quelled, foreigners starved. We get a (regular) crusader from Barcelona. The siege of Madrid goes well, no one dies, but some retreat. We don't go completely through, though.
IT: Barcelona flips AGAIN. This gets me thinking about a good old razing for Barcelona and Madrid.
T4: Madrid takes out 4 more knights before burning to the ground.
IT: Bella asks for peace, and would give Astro+Gunpowder for it. Gun due in 1, we can raze Barcelona this turn, so I decline.
T5: Brought the torches to Barcelona, but lost 2 ( *2* ! ) knights there. Lvl 2 WW kicks in, so I'm thinking about signing peace next turn when we have gunpowder.
T6: Spain sends a whooping one longbow, which gets merrily crushed by our joyful new
T7: lvl 2 WW is hurtful so I let her plea for mercy, as she puts it:
Research now on Chemistry, since they will all rush for banking sooner than later.
I calm down on knight production, considering 3 armies will do a lot of good together on the field, and that there are but 3 cities left for the spanishs ... probably 4, maybe 5 top when we can redeclare. Too bad they know everybody
Most of the builds are converted to libraries, with a handful of courts and harbors.
T8: Pentagon building in Thebes
T9: Spot what really looks like the Maya-Mongol frontline, with the mongols losing ground. We need to attack them before they get rifles and infantry methinks.
T10: Nothing much of interest. I leave you with some "zone defense" knights spread around and a settler ready to settle for the wines. We can probably lower luxury down then - we have a bunch of cities who would riot if it lowered, I even have some specialists enroled, but the production cities are all fully happy.
Question: if I signed RoP during the first IT after peace, would it lenghten the 'mandatory' peace by 1 turn? I mean, does it count as the last turn or the present one?
I hope you are joking about burning Madrid and Barcelona??? There were/are GWs there we would like to have!!! As there was in Barcelona!!! With just 3 or 4 cities left flips is a pain but nothing so dangerous we should stop fighting them, just empty the city after one turn of quenching resistors, the cities never flips on the first turn after capture. Peace at this time is also less than wise. I nursed our forces for so many turns it was just a matter of time to end the Spaniards with what was at your disposal. Unfortunately I cannot look at the save now but from what I read in your report what you tell us is terrible news.
We want lots of Knights and ships to ferry them safely across to the other continents. And the Pentagon, what on earth are we supposed to use that for??? Please drop this peaceful growth policy that has us by the b***s now.
We want lots of Knights and ships to ferry them safely across to the other continents. And the Pentagon, what on earth are we supposed to use that for??? Please drop this peaceful growth policy that has us by the b***s now.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
The wonders there were Coper's (next to useless in that kind of corruption) and KT (which will expire after giving us like 5 regular crusaders).
If I did that bad, I'll take the blame and will not hold it against anyone if you disregard my turns and kick me off roster. Learning is best done the hard way, IMO, and if I spoiled it, it means I'm not up to it yet and need to learn much still. Sorry for that.
If I did that bad, I'll take the blame and will not hold it against anyone if you disregard my turns and kick me off roster. Learning is best done the hard way, IMO, and if I spoiled it, it means I'm not up to it yet and need to learn much still. Sorry for that.
This is a learning experience so i am not asking you to drop from the team. Hopefully you will learn a few things from this debacle. 
I would however have liked if you had stopped playing and asked a question or even better asked for guidance before setting off to play your turns.
1. Madrid had the Pyramids, a very important and valuable GW!!! It is one of the most valuable GW's, period!
2. In a game where we have opted to go military and conquest/domination, culture will suffer so when at war stay at war until you have secured the area of conflict. With Spain at 3 times our culture every city will flip/risk flipping within 20 turns! We do not stop the war with only three cities to go before they are out of the game unless we ignore our reputation and are about to declare immediately after taking what they offer in the peace deal.
3. While at war WW is not a reason to seek peace. Use the lux slider!!! That is what it is there for!
4. I opened your save. Why do you keep all of our units in spanish cities, we are just asking for flips to lose them. Only keep units for one turn after conquest if there is a high flip risk. Let them recover in a tile next to the city instead so you can reconquer if it flips. No need to raze it.
5. Even if you have lost more units than I had hoped you would (since spain only had what was in garrisons when you took the game). There are plenty left to have finished them off. Why oh why did you make peace with a cultural giant???
6. The pentagon????? And loads of Libraries. The Pentagon is just beyond any comprehension, the libraries could be a matter of debate. But it is a matter of a debate within the team to make such a drastic change to the "master plan". What I would have liked to see would be a quick end to our Spanish problem, then turn on Maya together with the rest of the AIs. And get Ottomans in on our side. Every location now producing libraries should have continued to produce Knights and Galleys so we could have overwhelmed the Mayas in the south.
7. Astronomy, was a good call. We will save a lot of Galleys by this since we can now traverse the sound Aysut and Karhyuk without risking the galleys posted halfway across.
8. Always ask yourself the question: "Will this help us win this game?" before starting to build anything. Courthouses in the north that will be ready in 50-60 turns or Harbours or whatever is just a waste since they will barely be ready if ever before we have hopefully won the game. Either let them build units that can eventually be rushed or in some instances culture or settlers if we are going for domination.
I would however have liked if you had stopped playing and asked a question or even better asked for guidance before setting off to play your turns. 1. Madrid had the Pyramids, a very important and valuable GW!!! It is one of the most valuable GW's, period!
2. In a game where we have opted to go military and conquest/domination, culture will suffer so when at war stay at war until you have secured the area of conflict. With Spain at 3 times our culture every city will flip/risk flipping within 20 turns! We do not stop the war with only three cities to go before they are out of the game unless we ignore our reputation and are about to declare immediately after taking what they offer in the peace deal.
3. While at war WW is not a reason to seek peace. Use the lux slider!!! That is what it is there for!
4. I opened your save. Why do you keep all of our units in spanish cities, we are just asking for flips to lose them. Only keep units for one turn after conquest if there is a high flip risk. Let them recover in a tile next to the city instead so you can reconquer if it flips. No need to raze it.
5. Even if you have lost more units than I had hoped you would (since spain only had what was in garrisons when you took the game). There are plenty left to have finished them off. Why oh why did you make peace with a cultural giant???
6. The pentagon????? And loads of Libraries. The Pentagon is just beyond any comprehension, the libraries could be a matter of debate. But it is a matter of a debate within the team to make such a drastic change to the "master plan". What I would have liked to see would be a quick end to our Spanish problem, then turn on Maya together with the rest of the AIs. And get Ottomans in on our side. Every location now producing libraries should have continued to produce Knights and Galleys so we could have overwhelmed the Mayas in the south.
7. Astronomy, was a good call. We will save a lot of Galleys by this since we can now traverse the sound Aysut and Karhyuk without risking the galleys posted halfway across.
8. Always ask yourself the question: "Will this help us win this game?" before starting to build anything. Courthouses in the north that will be ready in 50-60 turns or Harbours or whatever is just a waste since they will barely be ready if ever before we have hopefully won the game. Either let them build units that can eventually be rushed or in some instances culture or settlers if we are going for domination.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
He done it alright, burnt to the ground they were. 
Keep in mind that science is accumulated not only through the portion of a city's income designated by the science slider, but also by specialists, i.e. scientists. A totally corrupt city still can generate plenty of science over its lifetime with a library and later university employing just enough scientists where the city isn't starving. The crusaders from KT can be useful for a long time, and we've still got AA units in our army. They shouldn't be discounted so easily.
No one's kicking you off or replaying the turns. We play with the mistakes the team makes, but I'm curious what level you typically play at. If you're at all unsure about doing something, please stop and ask for help. Burning a GW city definitely falls in this category.
I see the science/lux sliders are at 40/40 and we are running a cash deficit, chemistry in 14. You don't have to keep every worker happy. I'd suggest you go back and look at your save, change the sliders to 60/20 and then assign specialists so that no city is in disorder. Depending on how you do it, you should have a cash surplus and chemistry due in 10 or so. You don't need to re-post, just see for yourself how you can improve things with specialists.
Beorn-eL-Feared said:
Keep in mind that science is accumulated not only through the portion of a city's income designated by the science slider, but also by specialists, i.e. scientists. A totally corrupt city still can generate plenty of science over its lifetime with a library and later university employing just enough scientists where the city isn't starving. The crusaders from KT can be useful for a long time, and we've still got AA units in our army. They shouldn't be discounted so easily.
Beorn-eL-Feared said:
No one's kicking you off or replaying the turns. We play with the mistakes the team makes, but I'm curious what level you typically play at. If you're at all unsure about doing something, please stop and ask for help. Burning a GW city definitely falls in this category.
I see the science/lux sliders are at 40/40 and we are running a cash deficit, chemistry in 14. You don't have to keep every worker happy. I'd suggest you go back and look at your save, change the sliders to 60/20 and then assign specialists so that no city is in disorder. Depending on how you do it, you should have a cash surplus and chemistry due in 10 or so. You don't need to re-post, just see for yourself how you can improve things with specialists.
