(8-14a) Redcoats and Other 4UC English Marvels

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A distinct invisibility type will need to be coded for civilians in the DLL, reusing the same one as for submarines is a) jank and b) buggy code - since being able to see submarines also reveals civilians, which is an unintended effect.

Note to potential DLL sponsors, there might be existing functionality for this, though I'm unsure if it has negative impacts on performance.
Code: 
// Edit this if you would like to use more than one kind of INVISIBLE_TYPE
// #define MOD_GLOBAL_EXTRA_INVISIBLE_TYPE
 
These comments fill me with confidence
1719418249106.png


Let's flip the switch and see what happens.
Excellent first use of new observer mode features.
 
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I'm all for better overall functionality, but this seems a little bit like semantics to me?

For instance if the proposal also included "change Can See Submarines to Can See Invisible Units", then it would no longer be jank right? The reveal promo would be clear that it doesn't limit itself to submarines. Or am I missing something?

That said, I think the invisibility is clever but ultimately unnecessary. It's not like the AI is going to be good at aggressively making use of invisibility on its civilians, so it seems decidedly player-focused as an ability.
 
I agree, it seems like some devs are getting hung up on label names that can easily be adjusted. Things are labelled submarine because submarines are currently the only invisible unit type. Just change the relevant text and there would be no problem aside from your own mind-prison.
 
So the good news is the custom mod option lets me give a new type of invisibility.
See how there's a farm being built here but seemingly no worker:
Spoiler :

1719419368496.png

The bad news is it's like full-on ghost-mode invisibility. I can declare war and move on top of the worker and he just keep workin'
Spoiler :

1719419466563.png


So still needs some DLL work unless I missed something.

this seems a little bit like semantics to me?
Click to expand...
hung up on label names that can easily be adjusted
Click to expand...
Right, it seems that way to me.
 
ma_kuh said:
For instance if the proposal also included "change Can See Submarines to Can See Invisible Units", then it would no longer be jank right? The reveal promo would be clear that it doesn't limit itself to submarines. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
I mean, sure. So this is more of a clarification reusing a mechanic whose name is tied to other things that could cause unintended side effects.
Essentially, this is reaching gameplay perception change and I'm not sure if it has a place in the 4UC session.
 
ma_kuh said:
For instance if the proposal also included "change Can See Submarines to Can See Invisible Units", then it would no longer be jank right? The reveal promo would be clear that it doesn't limit itself to submarines. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
That'd be fine, but that wasn't what was proposed. :)

(Although it's still mildly janky...)
 
hokath said:
England has always been, to me, a Man of Kent, a huge disappointment. And it's not great in the game either :lol:
The bonuses just aren't connected into something cohesive and the addition of the spy focus -- while cool -- doesn't help with that because of how stand-alone the espionage system (currently -- watch this space) plays in VP.
The addition of the Longbowman is another example of this. Sure they are iconic in English history but at the end of the day in-game they are just a crossbowman-on-steroids with no interaction with the rest of the kit.

In this rework we tie together the military and espionage aspects of England as a civ by giving them an identity as a (geographically) wide military civ that wants to fight in the far-flung regions of the world, able to maneuver around warzones to continue their diplomatic/religious/expansionist activities uninterrupted. credit goes to Hinin for many of these ideas.


Spoiler here is the base proposal screenshot for reference :


UA -- Perfidious Albion
Civilian Units are Invisible gain +2 :scan: Vision Range and ignore rival borders. Naval Units cost 25% less :c5gold: Maintenance and gain +1%:c5strength: Strength for every Tile away from the :c5capital: Capital (up to 30%) and +1 :c5moves: Movement.
(cap needs small DLL change)
(promotions that let you see invisible units -- submarines -- will also work on these civilians. I would change the text to reflect this where appropriate)

UU2 -- Redcoat (replaces Fusilier) --> this is instead of Longbowman <--
Rule Britannia - When embarked, gain +2 Visibility Range and +100% :c5strength: CS when defending. Ignore Terrain Costs. Lost on Upgrade
Sun Never Sets - +1%:c5strength: Strength for every Tile away from the :c5capital: Capital (up to 30%) and +1 :c5moves: Movement. Kept on Upgrade
Note art, model, icons all already exist

UB1 -- White Tower (replaces Ironworks)
additions
+100 :espionage: Spy Points
+Great Admiral points in addition to :c5gold: Gold and :c5science: Science

The Steam Mill is not touched.

See the attachment in this post for a playable version
(this is with invisibility)

Update: We will also increase the leader profile so FLAVOR_EXPANSION is at 9 rather than at 7 (Pocatello is at 10 and there is generally only one guy with 10)
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Kudos for "Rule Britannia" and "Sun never sets". They should have kept the latter as the UA name.
As one if those who likes to turn espionage off, I am pleased to see England move out of that corner.
 
They should have kept the latter as the UA name.
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Yes, with no invisibility and the spies moved to the UB, I think we can swap the name back. Update OP.

On that point... which pesky, villainous Francophile changed England's UA to this defamatory nonsense in the first place?
I guess it would make sense if we Brits wore it as a badge of honour, but how could we when the British Empire did nothing wrong?

Alternatives include:
  • God Save the Queen
  • Land of Hope and Glory
  • Brexit Means Brexit
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense
 
hokath said:
Yes with no invisibility and the spies moved to the UB, I think we can swap the name back. Update OP.

On that point, which pesky, villainous Francophile changed England's UA to this defamatory nonsense in the first place.
I guess it would make sense if we Brits wore it as a badge of honour, but how could we when the British Empire did nothing wrong?

Alternatives include:
  • God Save the Queen
  • Land of Hope and Glory
  • Brexit Means Brexit
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense
Click to expand...
Sun never sets is perfect. Britain had THE biggest empire ever. And the UA now reflects this with the distance-based naval bonus.
 
MAGI:

UB1 -- White Tower (replaces Ironworks)
additions
+100 :espionage: Spy Points
+Great Admiral points in addition to :c5gold: Gold and :c5science: Science

is the great admiral points the same as gold and science? need to specify the amount
 
hokath said:
Yes, with no invisibility and the spies moved to the UB, I think we can swap the name back. Update OP.

On that point... which pesky, villainous Francophile changed England's UA to this defamatory nonsense in the first place?
I guess it would make sense if we Brits wore it as a badge of honour, but how could we when the British Empire did nothing wrong?

Alternatives include:
  • God Save the Queen
  • Land of Hope and Glory
  • Brexit Means Brexit
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense
Click to expand...
I nominate Reverse Campsite Rule. Cause they left every continent worse than they found it:)
 
Please don’t give English civilians +2 vision. We already have another anglophone civ that gives extra vision to units. the ignore borders bonus is plenty by itself

Based on this conversation it seems like the added vision is being proposed with no significant thought for its tactical implications. Just a throwaway bonus. This is a bad idea. Let’s not bring back 3 vision scout fishing boats; that was removed for a good reason.
 
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I put it there because it is on Hinin's original implementation. You'll have to ask him if he put the bonus there as a little bit of throwaway fun.
My reasoning is that without Invisibility you need the Vision so you know if they're comin' t' get ya'.

On the fishing boats. I have a feeling they don't qualify as civilians for this promotion -- I will need to check when I get home.
 
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