[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC - Russia - UB's changes, New Cossack Promotion

[Chippy Smith]

I posted a separate thread for my proposal, which takes ideas from both OP and Pinappledan. Link is here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...counterproposal-for-new-ub-and-old-ub.690369/

 

[hokath]

@Pipiskus this thread has kinda got away from the original post
Do you want to retract this one and start again?
I would also encourage you to split the proposal into parts if you think they can exist independently, as Chippy has done.

 

[Pipiskus]

@Pipiskus this thread has kinda got away from the original post
Do you want to retract this one and start again?

But what is the point of making new post for that purpose, i do not understand something?

 

[hokath]

So a new reader could follow the discussion, that's all.

 

[Pipiskus]

So a new reader could follow the discussion, that's all.

But how do i do that? Withdraw the proposal and post again?

 

[hokath]

Importantly if you are happy that some of the proposal passes independently of the rest, make multiple threads so they can be voted on separately.
If not, specify as such.

 

[Pipiskus]

I need some new feedback on the Pogost specifically and on the rest of proposals at will

 

[hokath]

Disclaimer: I am mad drunk right now

You are proposing 4 yields per 3

tiles.
They don't even have to be worked, right?
That's totally insane.
A city *starts* with 6+1 tiles. So 8 yields. That's more than some UB already!!
Then the building has addition bonuses even on top of this...Njet.

 

[Pipiskus]

Disclaimer: I am mad drunk right now

You are proposing 4 yields per 3
View attachment 695563tiles.
They don't even have to be worked, right?
That's totally insane.
A city *starts* with 6+1 tiles. So 8 yields. That's more than some UB already!!
Then the building has addition bonuses even on top of this...Njet.

what if i change it to per 4 , then it would be +9 to the same 4 yields at third ring. Though it seems it would still be a lot probably. I think i can scrap this part and make some granary/aqueduct type bonuses.

 

[CppMaster]

Territorial: Gain 15 Border growth Points after every three successful attacks for 1 out of 3 nearest cities(randomly) (Cant be kept on Upgrade)

Why not just 5 border growth point after every successful attack?

 

[Pipiskus]

Why not just 5 border growth point after every successful attack?

To reward tactical effort of not dying

 

[CppMaster]

To reward tactical effort of not dying

Overly complicated imho. Could then just reduce it to 4 border growth points, so it's not rewarded as much.

 

[paul_soryu]

I never liked the science bonus on border expansion, as it is just too straightforward, you just grab every bonus to Border Growth and that's the game. And to gain a lot of tiles you need to generate a lot of culture, which makes Russia a somewhat of science+culture oriented civ.

Also, as you mentioned, Russia was never technologically advanced, so a science bonus from the start of the game thematically is very strange, especially considering the Mongol invasion set the development of Rus' lands a couple hundreds years back compared to Western Europe. And it is not like Russia gained a lot of scientific knowledge from the eastwards expansion or from imperial conquests, but in the game Russia is expected to be among the scientific leaders in mid-late game.

While scrapped UA (bonus to based on distance from capital, afair?) could be considered thematically strange too, I think a fun thing about it is that it would encourage the player to settle not only wide, but also narrow, mimicking the way Russia acutally looks on the world map, possibly even having your capital at the edge of an empire. Could also give flat based on distance (2 per 5 tiles for exmaple, so your 4th city could gain 6 if you settle narrow), in order to enchance the early development.

Moving the science on border expansion bonus onto one of the buildings would make it more appropriate thematically, and not as strong. But I guess it makes the gameplay less concentrated.

 

[azum4roll]

especially considering the Mongol invasion set the development of Rus' lands a couple hundreds years back compared to Western Europe.

The game is not meant to be historic (or many civs would be scripted to lose). It's a "what if these civilizations start at random places on a random map with their unique traits intact" kind of game.

So the question is, should Russia be scientific in a vacuum?

 

[paul_soryu]

The game is not meant to be historic

I know, it is just a supplementary argument to the strangeness of Russia (specifically Russian Empire) being a scientific civ, in my opinion it shouldn't be one. Otherwise, for example, Germany should be a scientific powerhouse, but it currently has a different focus.

 

[pineappledan]

I think in a vacuum some of the most important scientific contributions came from Russia, and that has shaped modern concepts of the nation.

 

[CppMaster]

The game is not meant to be historic (or many civs would be scripted to lose). It's a "what if these civilizations start at random places on a random map with their unique traits intact" kind of game.

Yet we still try, so e.g. Mongols or Huns are more geared for than India.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.