A Babylon 5 Mod for the Final Frontier Mod

[PsiCorps]

never meant for them to have more than one ship in the mod (at least currently, I we retake the 2nd LoNAW faction proposal that could change).

A second League faction is looking like a better option moreso because there aren't that many ship designs/models for us to use if we keep all of the Civ's as we currently have them. The best option I can think of would be to have 2 or 3 League factions each representing 2, 3 or 4 Civ's. This would depend on how many ships we can find for each race. The Pak'Ma'Ra and Drazi could be one faction, Markab, Gaim and Hyach a second faction and then finally Vree, Abbai, Cascor, Yolu, Balosian, Descari and Lumati as a 3rd faction. It would involve reworking some of what we have in place Unique Building wise but I have no problem with that.

I would guess that the issue with the Advanced Bridge is that the Blitz option (multiple attacks per turn) is only valid when a unit has a movement rate that is greater than 1 (since you can only attack multiple times if you can move multiple times).

Once you research a tech that gives +1 movement, or possibly apply a promotion that gives +1 movement, the Advanced Bridge may become available. Or maybe not - I didn't check to see if the restriction for it in the DLL checks the current movement rate for the unit or only the base movement rate.

Thanks God-Emperor, I'll look into that and see if a unit with two movement later in the game can take the promotion.

EDIT - I can now answer my own question. Having more than one movement point later in the game doesn't make the promotion available. However, changing the base movement speed to 2 does make it available. Is it Python or SDK coding that needs to be changed to allow Blitz at speed 1?

 

[AncientSion]

Use another hoster. Either Moddb or OCHs. Atomicgamer sucks for non-regged users.

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Where can i download the required Final Frontier mod ?

I have deleted the original Civ4 mods to save up space and i don't want to waste time by reinstalling everything

 

[God-Emperor]

EDIT - I can now answer my own question. Having more than one movement point later in the game doesn't make the promotion available. However, changing the base movement speed to 2 does make it available. Is it Python or SDK coding that needs to be changed to allow Blitz at speed 1?

The promotion restrictions are in the DLL.

 

[PsiCorps]

Use another hoster. Either Moddb or OCHs. Atomicgamer sucks for non-regged users.

I shall try and accomodate your request when I have the time to register on another host server.

Where can i download the required Final Frontier mod ?

I have deleted the original Civ4 mods to save up space and i don't want to waste time by reinstalling everything

Not sure that you can.

The promotion restrictions are in the DLL.

Wish I knew how to make and save changes to this.

I've come up with a work around for this now still going through the changes I need to make, may need to move a couple of techs around in the tech tree as well. Have to wait and see.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I was the one who posted about the advanced bridge promotion not working.
imo the promotion should come from a building. Since it would be mostly improved technology installed while the ship is build. And continue the philosophy of new ships being more advanced then older ships.
I'm still busy playing my first game of this version. And so far enjoying myself. Its good to finally see the AI expand and wage wars again without help from wb,

 

[PsiCorps]

I was the one who posted about the advanced bridge promotion not working.
imo the promotion should come from a building. Since it would be mostly improved technology installed while the ship is build. And continue the philosophy of new ships being more advanced then older ships.
I'm still busy playing my first game of this version. And so far enjoying myself. Its good to finally see the AI expand and wage wars again without help from wb,

Thanks for the post on the issue Greeneyedzombie. I like that Idea of a building giving the Promotion like some of the others do and will have a play around with it and see what happens. I hope that the Promotion from a building for a unit will over-ride the 2 Movement Point requirement.

Glad you're enjoying the latest version, i'm still trying to develop some of the other ideas I've had to further improve the mod.

 

[Premier Valle]

Hello everyone!,

The next ship for the LoNAW is ready, the pak'ma'ra thar'not'ak, there are few pak'ma'ra designs, and, as we know, they also use "imported" ships (in the show a Drazi Sunhawk is used by the pak'ma'ra), should more pak'ma'ra ships become needed they will be made, but in the mean time here it is:

Poly count: 410
Animation: B5_Custom_FF_WhiteStar
Damage/Glow/Gloss: Yes/Yes/Yes
FX extra polys: 9

Civilopedia

Combat:

Damaged:

Ship table:

Spoiler :

The thar'not'ak, takes the place of the pak'ma'ra gunship.

 

[PsiCorps]

Great new ship Premier. Unfortunately this changes the current set up for the Civ's. At the moment we have the Pak'Ma'Ra as a separate Civ. Placing this new ship in with the LoNaW means we are losing them as an independent but gaining a new leader option for the LoNaW. I'm happy to do this as primarily it means less work for you in coming up with/finding new ship models but also means one less Civ to contend with.
Having done more research on the Markab it would appear that they have very few ships to speak of. The Gaim seem to have made use of many derelict Markab ships after the race died out so possibly some Gaim ships may actually be Markab Ships.
Let me know what you think!?

 

[Premier Valle]

Hi...

Great new ship Premier. Unfortunately this changes the current set up for the Civ's. At the moment we have the Pak'Ma'Ra as a separate Civ. Placing this new ship in with the LoNaW means we are losing them as an independent but gaining a new leader option for the LoNaW. I'm happy to do this as primarily it means less work for you in coming up with/finding new ship models but also means one less Civ to contend with.

...

...

...
Oh my... I completely forgot that we had the pak'ma'ra as a full Civ (even tho it is stated in my very own ship table ).

It is fine by me to keep them as a full Civ, there are still a few number of pak'ma'ra designs and the rest can be filled with Drazi and other "imported" ship classes.

I'll work on the ship table to cover the hole in the LoNAW (made by removing the pak'ma'ra from their fleet) and to fill the pak'ma'ra fleet.

Having done more research on the Markab it would appear that they have very few ships to speak of. The Gaim seem to have made use of many derelict Markab ships after the race died out so possibly some Gaim ships may actually be Markab Ships.
Let me know what you think!?

I have actually researched very little on the Gaim and even less about the Markab, I know the Gaim mainly buy foreign ships but I have found a few designs of their own. About the Markab I'm only aware of their transport (see Drafa plague episode).



EDIT:
*** Possible changes to current ship tree warning (beyond those already stated)***

 

[Premier Valle]

Hello everyone!

I haven't finished the new fleet definitions for the LoNAW/pak'ma'ra, but I have made a few changes, I'll post them later. A little ahead of the new ship table, let me tell you in advance that I have found another Drazi ship (a transport), and also, I have "promoted" the Descari Rulnar and added a new ship the Mitoc Jomic Class Frigate (which will take the place the Rulnar currently has, this later ocupaying the place of the LoNAW's pak'ma'ra gunship in the current ship table), I thougth on adding another smaller species (the Mitoc) to the mod.

New Drazi Orinthar Class Transport:

Spoiler :

Mitoc Jomic Class Frigate (along some background for it):
*Note: There is no design for this one, but merely a silhouette, so this is my proposal (I admit it is heavily - but not entirely - based on Bungie's Halcyon class).

Spoiler :

Let me know what you think.

 

[PsiCorps]

Hello everyone!

I haven't finished the new fleet definitions for the LoNAW/pak'ma'ra, but I have made a few changes, I'll post them later. A little ahead of the new ship table, let me tell you in advance that I have found another Drazi ship (a transport), and also, I have "promoted" the Descari Rulnar and added a new ship the Mitoc Jomic Class Frigate (which will take the place the Rulnar currently has, this later ocupaying the place of the LoNAW's pak'ma'ra gunship in the current ship table), I thougth on adding another smaller species (the Mitoc) to the mod.

New Drazi Orinthar Class Transport:

Spoiler :

Mitoc Jomic Class Frigate (along some background for it):
*Note: There is no design for this one, but merely a silhouette, so this is my proposal (I admit it is heavily - but not entirely - based on Bungie's Halcyon class).

Spoiler :

Let me know what you think.

I Like both of those designs Premier. How soon will they be available to add to the Mod?

I've been giving more thought to the League races and how we have them set up at the moment.

Presently we have the Brakiri, Drazi, Markab, Gaim & Pak'Ma'Ra as stand alone Civ's and then the LoNaW that contains any other Minor races mentioned in the series.

The Brakiri and Drazi showed they are worthy of being independent Civ's towards the end of season 5 when their combined fleets attacked the Centauri Homeworld. So I am content to leave them as they are besides which the Brakiri fleet is complete.

The Pak'Ma'Ra aren't an expansive race. According to the Lurkers Guide to B5 book on the Pak'Ma'Ra they are content to stay on their homeworld and have a superb defence fleet to protect it. They go out into the stars to meet other races and learn from them taking that knowledge back to their great library. They have no desire to colonize other worlds. They would fit better into a second League Civ than they do as an Independent Civ.

The Markab, as mentioned before, don't seem to have much of a fleet that was seen in the series, the Transport being the main one. Thus they too would suit a second League Civ more than they do a stand alone.

The Gaim seem to have taken many derelict Markab vessels for themselves, as a result a Gaim designed ship, could equally be a Markab ship, there's no way to tell for sure.

So, putting the Gaim and Markab together with the Pak'Ma'Ra should enable us to cut down on the number of ship models required to fill a fleet roster. This also helps trim down the size of the mod slightly and when playing will mean there are two less Civ's to contend with.

These are just my thoughts on the subject and I'll not do anything/make any changes to what we have until I have anyone elses thoughts so, please feel free to chip in.

 

[Premier Valle]

Hello everyone!,

I Like both of those designs Premier. How soon will they be available to add to the Mod?

Glad you like them. The Jomic is an easy to model, but the Orinthar is more complex, I would expect the Jomic to become available this week, no ETA on the Orinthar.

The Brakiri and Drazi showed they are worthy of being independent Civ's towards the end of season 5 when their combined fleets attacked the Centauri Homeworld.

Wasn't it the Narn and the Drazi?

The Pak'Ma'Ra aren't an expansive race. [...] They would fit better into a second League Civ than they do as an Independent Civ.

Agreed

The Markab, [...] Thus they too would suit a second League Civ more than they do a stand alone.

Agreed

I've been giving more thought to the League races and how we have them set up at the moment.

Presently we have the Brakiri, Drazi, Markab, Gaim & Pak'Ma'Ra as stand alone Civ's and then the LoNaW that contains any other Minor races mentioned in the series.

I agree that reorganizing the LoNAW would be a good thing for the mod. In order to take a better decision regarding that, I have prepared a compilation of ships with available designs for the LoNAW (excluding the Drazi), most of these ships already have full designs, although in some cases only silhouettes are available:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spreadsheet available here.

And here it is the updated ship table (no LoNAW reorganization):

Spoiler :

======
EDIT:
Another observation regarding the mod's current status:
The Omega Class becomes available before the Nova Class. B5-wise, the Nova is the Omega's predecessor. In the "In the beginning" movie we can clearly see that Hyperions and Novas were available in the times of the Earth-Minbari war, no Omegas were yet available. Also, in episode "And Now for a Word" Sheridan states that the Agamemnon is one of the first Omega destroyers to be built "after" the war.
I believe that tier 1 battleships should become available just before (or at least at the same time) the tier 1 cruisers become available.

 

[PsiCorps]

Wasn't it the Narn and the Drazi?

Could very well have been, haven't watched that particular episode in a long time. Even so, we have a full fleet for the Brakiri so they get to stay independent.

I'll use the spread sheet to figure out which mix of races when put together will give a good fleet roster. It could be that we end up with 2 new LoNaW Civ's and lose 2 independent Civ's.

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Could you please post Final Frontier files as a seperate download ?

I would really like to play your mod, but i'm unable to, as i cannot find FF anywhere (i have it deleted and i don't want to reinstall all Civ4).

 

[Premier Valle]

Hello everyone!,

I had started work on the Cascor Crocti a few days ago, I have finally finished it. The Crocti is a carrier, and from what I know about the Cascor they are superb at fighter combat, so, even if the Cascor presence in the mod is limited to this ship, it would be fitting for it to be a carrier.

Poly count: 800
Animation: FF Destroyer
Damage/Glow/Gloss: Yes/Yes/Yes
FX extra polys: 56

Civilopedia:

Combat:

Damaged:

we have a full fleet for the Brakiri so they get to stay independent.

Agreed, also, they were one of the most powerfull and influential League races.
(yesterday I was seeing in youtube parts of the Coriana VI battle, and suddenly I noticed something, a Brakiri Avioki was actually firing its weapons!, I had never seen before one Brakiri* ship fighting - just running )

I'll use the spread sheet to figure out which mix of races when put together will give a good fleet roster. It could be that we end up with 2 new LoNaW Civ's and lose 2 independent Civ's.

While certainly the available designs for each race can be taken into account when deciding the LoNAW reorganization we should also take into account how much influence does a particular race has in the whole of the LoNAW.
i.e. The Abbai or the Hyach do have far more influence in the whole LoNAW (and beyond) than the pak'ma'ra or the Gaim.
Perhaps we should mix powerfull ones with lower ones so their influence will be clearly seen in the mod as well.

Could you please post Final Frontier files as a seperate download ?

I'll see what I can do, however it is not the scope of this project to distribute the Final Frontier mod, so it will be available for a short period of time. (I'm posting from work , so I'll do this when I'm back at home)



* shure I saw them going to battle, but I can't remeber they doing anything about it

EDIT:
====
Here is the FF download, I hope I didn't miss any files (some FF resources are outside the mod folder), the download will be available for just a few days.

 

[God-Emperor]

New topic for issues: traits.

There are at least two issues with traits:

1) The ExtraYieldThresholds. These are the things that show up something like "+1 on plots with 1" for the trait. This property does nothing. Plots are not worked at all so changing plot yields is not useful. These settings are just cluttering up the traits with things that look like you might get extra production or food or commerce, but don't actually give you anything.
Example: TRAIT_MINBARI_FEDERATION has ExtraYieldThresholds that indicate that they should get +1 on plots with at least 1 and +1 on plots with at least 1.

I suggest eliminating all of these.

2) The TradeYieldModifiers. Even though these say they give things like "+1 from " they don't. This is actually a more or less standard yield modifier in that the value is actually a percentage bonus. For some reason the help text has never had the percent sign in it (probably because no trait in regular Civ uses this so they never noticed it was missing). Since your average trade route has a base value somewhere not much over 1 in the early game, and maybe 3 (but probably less, as far as I can recall) for foreign trade routes later in the game, a value of 1 for a yield type in this property would give you +0.01 to maybe +0.03 of whichever yield type is it for. Not too surprisingly these get rounded away to nothing. In order to ever get anything at all out of it, it would probably need to be set to at least 35.
Example: TRAIT_EARTH_ALLIANCE has TradeYieldModifiers set to 1 for . The trait help makes it look like this should give +1 per trade route when what it actually gives is +1% of the base value in of the trade route for each trade route.

The FFP DLL adds a new tag that is relevant for point 2. The Red Syndicate gets a flat +1 and +1 from each trade route. This is done with the new TradeRouteYieldChanges tag. These are standard yield changes in that they are a specific amount, not a percentage of anything. It doesn't matter what the base value of the trade route is, the bonus is always the amount specified. B5 already actually uses this for one trait, TRAIT_CHARISMATIC, which gets +1:hammers; per . Currently this property does not get added to the help text by the DLL, it appears for the Red Syndicate in FFP via the trait's Help text (this is true for most, or possibly all, of the new XML properties added by FFP - I expect to be looking into this issue pretty soon).

I suggest either adjusting the TradeYieldModifiers way up to the 35-50 range (you could put the "%" sign into the help text, which is defined via TXT_KEY_TRAIT_TRADE_YIELD_MODIFIERS - I expect you add a "%" by sticking in a "%%" at the appropriate location) or getting rid of them and using TradeRouteYieldChanges instead, or possibly some combination of these things.


(And, on an unrelated note: 2000th post.)

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Thx a lot, Premier Valle

 

[PsiCorps]

New topic for issues: traits.

There are at least two issues with traits:

1) The ExtraYieldThresholds. These are the things that show up something like "+1 on plots with 1" for the trait. This property does nothing. Plots are not worked at all so changing plot yields is not useful. These settings are just cluttering up the traits with things that look like you might get extra production or food or commerce, but don't actually give you anything.
Example: TRAIT_MINBARI_FEDERATION has ExtraYieldThresholds that indicate that they should get +1 on plots with at least 1 and +1 on plots with at least 1.

I suggest eliminating all of these.

2) The TradeYieldModifiers. Even though these say they give things like "+1 from " they don't. This is actually a more or less standard yield modifier in that the value is actually a percentage bonus. For some reason the help text has never had the percent sign in it (probably because no trait in regular Civ uses this so they never noticed it was missing). Since your average trade route has a base value somewhere not much over 1 in the early game, and maybe 3 (but probably less, as far as I can recall) for foreign trade routes later in the game, a value of 1 for a yield type in this property would give you +0.01 to maybe +0.03 of whichever yield type is it for. Not too surprisingly these get rounded away to nothing. In order to ever get anything at all out of it, it would probably need to be set to at least 35.
Example: TRAIT_EARTH_ALLIANCE has TradeYieldModifiers set to 1 for . The trait help makes it look like this should give +1 per trade route when what it actually gives is +1% of the base value in of the trade route for each trade route.

The FFP DLL adds a new tag that is relevant for point 2. The Red Syndicate gets a flat +1 and +1 from each trade route. This is done with the new TradeRouteYieldChanges tag. These are standard yield changes in that they are a specific amount, not a percentage of anything. It doesn't matter what the base value of the trade route is, the bonus is always the amount specified. B5 already actually uses this for one trait, TRAIT_CHARISMATIC, which gets +1:hammers; per . Currently this property does not get added to the help text by the DLL, it appears for the Red Syndicate in FFP via the trait's Help text (this is true for most, or possibly all, of the new XML properties added by FFP - I expect to be looking into this issue pretty soon).

I suggest either adjusting the TradeYieldModifiers way up to the 35-50 range (you could put the "%" sign into the help text, which is defined via TXT_KEY_TRAIT_TRADE_YIELD_MODIFIERS - I expect you add a "%" by sticking in a "%%" at the appropriate location) or getting rid of them and using TradeRouteYieldChanges instead, or possibly some combination of these things.


(And, on an unrelated note: 2000th post.)

Thanks very much for the feedback, I'll look into that over the weekend/next week.

Congrats on 2000 posts

Overkill on the smilies but who really cares?!

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I noticed that pirates (raiders) can use my roads to zip around my empire.
Don't know if AI civs can do the same,
But I'm really beginning to dislike pirates being able to do that. With jumplanes, they can enter your border, and then kill my workers 10 tiles away. its really hard to keep them alive that way. Unless you build anonther army just to protect your workers.