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A Clarification on Nukes and the suggestions people make.

Exavier said:
In my opinion the concussion generated by a nuclear weapon is what causes the most destruction. Most nukes are airburst. they detonate a specific distand above ground so that the concussion waves generated in the air spread alot farther then they would if the nuke impacted the ground. In fact most things are shredded by this blast before the heat actually hits it.


Well as far as i know the purpose of an airburst is to allow for maximum target damage...

You drop an airburst for the same reason you swing a hammer to drive a nail... you could rest the hammer on the nail and push down... but the results wont be nearly as good as allowing for kinetic energy to take over.
 
BTW The Tsar Bomba was supposed to be 100 megatons... however the bomb would have produced so much fallout it could have caused a very serious global health crisis...

As i said before, bombs are scalable and a dual stage thermonuclear weapon could be configured to produce much larger yields with only a minimal effort.

The end result was the Tsar bomba was set off with without a massive uranium tamper, and the Tsar Bomba was remarkably clean, a large portion of the fissile material was used and thus not much fallout was spread.
 
Ah, yes, these are the threads I love, where you actually LEARN something.

I guess, however, that Psyringe is right - I could even imagine that radioactive materials sport that "evil green glow" in a tradition of cryptonite (the basic form of which, as most of us would know, is green).

And to sum up my opinion concerning nuclear weapons: I am damn serious when I say that no nation on earth that today keeps nuclear weapons stored should bear the attribute "civilised". We did have a time when it was, in a very perverted way, necessary to have those (the "Cold War"), but today, it's nothing but idiocy. And, no, I do not want those weapons in CIV at all, much less a variety of them - I am quite content with how they nerfed them down in CIV4, making them essentially not worth the trouble. Good job, Firaxis!
 
DemonDeLuxe said:
And to sum up my opinion concerning nuclear weapons: I am damn serious when I say that no nation on earth that today keeps nuclear weapons stored should bear the attribute "civilised". We did have a time when it was, in a very perverted way, necessary to have those (the "Cold War"), but today, it's nothing but idiocy.
unfortunately, when asked to disarm, the response always seems to be "you first". lets just hope it dosent take a war to make us learn our lesson.
 
Neutron bombs could be used as strategic anti-missile weapons or as tactical weapons intended for use against armored forces.

As an anti-missile weapon, ER weapons were developed to protect United States missile silos from incoming Soviet warheads by damaging their electronic components with the intense neutron flux.

Tactical neutron bombs are primarily intended to kill soldiers who are protected by armor. Armored vehicles are extremely resistant to blast and heat produced by nuclear weapons, so the effective range of a nuclear weapon against tanks is determined by the lethal range of the radiation, although this is also reduced by the armor. By emitting large amounts of lethal radiation of the most penetrating kind, ER warheads maximize the lethal range of a given yield of nuclear warhead against armored targets.

One problem with using radiation as a tactical anti-personnel weapon is that to bring about rapid incapacitation of the target, a radiation dose that is many times the lethal level must be administered. A radiation dose of 6 Gy is normally considered lethal. It will kill at least half of those who are exposed to it, but no effect is noticeable for several hours. Neutron bombs were intended to deliver a dose of 80 Gy to produce immediate and permanent incapacitation. A 1 kt ER warhead can do this to a T-72 tank crew at a range of 690 m, compared to 360 m for a pure fission bomb. For a "mere" 6 Gy dose, the distances are 1100 m and 700 m respectively, and for unprotected soldiers 6 Gy exposures occur at 1350 m and 900 m. The lethal range for tactical neutron bombs exceeds the lethal range for blast and heat even for unprotected troops.

The neutron flux can induce significant amounts of short-lived secondary radioactivity in the environment in the high flux region near the burst point. The alloys used in steel armor can develop radioactivity that is dangerous for 24-48 hours. If a tank exposed to a 1 kt neutron bomb at 690 m (the effective range for immediate crew incapacitation) is immediately occupied by a new crew, they will receive a lethal dose of radiation within 24 hours.

Some authorities say that due to the rapid attenuation of neutron energy by the atmosphere (these authorities claim that it drops by a factor of 10 every 500 m in addition to the effects of spreading) ER weapons are only effective at short ranges, and thus are practical only in relatively low yields. These ER warheads are said to be designed to minimize the amount of fission energy and blast effect produced relative to the neutron yield. The principal reason is said to be to allow their use close to friendly forces.

These same authorities say that the common perception of the neutron bomb as a "landlord bomb" that would kill people but leave buildings undamaged is greatly overstated. At the conventional effective combat range (690 m), the blast from a 1 kt neutron bomb will ruin almost any civilian building. Thus the use of neutron bombs to stop an enemy attack, which requires exploding large numbers of them to blanket the enemy forces, would also destroy all buildings in the area.

Another view of the neutron bomb and its tactics exists. The inventor of the neutron bomb, Samuel Cohen, wrote a book in which he stated that the effective range of a pure neutron bomb exceeded 10 km of altitude. Cohen stated explicitly that "enhanced radiation" weapons deployed in Germany during the cold war were political compromises designed to have substantial blast, with radiation effects deliberately reduced to eliminate any possibility of surviving structures. He also quoted radiation releases of 1 kGy at the ground from pure neutron weapons exploded at 10 km.

The neutron absorption spectra of air is disputed, and may depend in part on absorption by hydrogen from water vapor. It therefore might vary exponentially with humidity, making high-altitude neutron bombs immensely more deadly in desert climates than in humid ones. This effect also varies with altitude.

According to Cohen, one possible tactic of using such "true" neutron bombs is therefore to launch them as defensive weapons against armored attacks. Civilians enter fallout shelters, and the bomb is exploded 10 km over the armored attack. Portable armor is said to be unable to shield tank and aircraft crews. In such an event, a city's trees and grass would have been killed by radiation, but buildings would remain undamaged for the emerging civilians (who would however have to wait several days for certain short-lived isotopes to decay). Such neutron bombs would be very potent anti-ship weapons. A major supporter of Cohen's research was the U.S. Navy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page is the web site i get all my info.

i'd rather not be in the area of a Hydrogen bomb when it explodes if i'm i hope i'm vaparized and killed instantly i don't look forward to radiation sickness
 
Jinto1980 said:
i'd rather not be in the area of a Hydrogen bomb when it explodes if i'm i hope i'm vaparized and killed instantly i don't look forward to radiation sickness


Wikipedia is actually a very good source to find out this stuff, I learned most of my knowledge via University technical pages which unlike wikipedia are the xenith of boredom on earth... wikipeida can actually be somewhat interesting if you can stand technical reading.


One thing about radiation sickness and neutron weapons is that neutron bombs are designed to cause radiation sickness... they are designed to kill you instantly by frying your nervous system instantly with a pulse. This of course is an insane amount of radiation...

The more realistic occurance in going to be you either being crippled for life after a tortuous 2 week rehabilitation under intense medical care... Or you can become something known as a "walking ghost" the walking ghost only has a very short phase of being ill despite having recieved much more radiation than the first case. However this is due to his body being essentially destroyed by such a high degree internally his body no long even shows symptoms of being damaged... for instance a ghost's digestive system will be completely non functional. The Ghost can live for sometimes up to 3 days of relative peace before collapse.
 
The blue glow of the water inside a reactor mentioned above would most proably be caused by activated cobalt in the piping or even lose in the core. Cobalt will glow blue when irradiated. It isnt H2O itself that glows. Cobalt is used in the construction of the reactor and especialy in older models dosent always stay where it should.
 
It's a game. It's a game that's about a lot of things, not just the destruction of the planet via nuke happy dictators.

Mod it. Make it so you can have 20 different types of nukes. Then you can nuke the helpless AIs 20 different ways.
 
bobsteve said:
The blue glow of the water inside a reactor mentioned above would most proably be caused by activated cobalt in the piping or even lose in the core. Cobalt will glow blue when irradiated. It isnt H2O itself that glows. Cobalt is used in the construction of the reactor and especialy in older models dosent always stay where it should.

Sounds more like Cerenkov radiation to me.
 
Say... is it possible that the "green glow" myth originated with Superman's Kryptonite? We should check the dates on references to it.


In any case, I think having different kinds of nuclear weapons would best be left to another game. In Civilization, the diplomatic, military, and strategic implications of a nuke are generally the same regardless of its nuances. Plus, having a nuclear weapon that blight-ed the earth with un-scrubable fallout for the rest of the game would be no fun (though a nuclear wars mod with a tighter focus on late game IBCMs would be interesting).
 
Covert22 said:
know your nukes folks.
2.) Radioactive elements and compounds (with the occasional rare exception) Do *NOT* GLOW *Uranium is NOT A GLOWING GREEN METAL ***EVER***. The green myth about uranium is probably due to uranium being used at one time as a way to make green glass... btw this glass is perfectly safe.



Found this at http://library.thinkquest.org/C0122360/full/5-1_e.html
The study of radioactive material started with Becqueral in 1896, when he discovered that some of his films became unuseable, as if they had been exposed to light, even though they were kept in a sealed opaque container. Further investigation revealed a substance that gave a green glow in the dark. This was uranium, and Becqueral discovered the X-ray.
 
mhabursky said:
The United States Army used small amounts of uranium in compasses (the kind that show north) to make them glow in the dark until the 80's when they switched to "safer" glowing chemicals. They glow green.


Yes, uranium and radium both have been used to make things such as watch faces glow. However Uranium by itself doesnt glow and the thought of it glowing in it's pure form is quite silly... similar to trying to use pure sodium for table salt.

I think alot of the myth stems back to early experiments that probably did produce a EXTREMELY faint glow as well as the glass coming from the Trinity experiment being bright green... you also need to remember that uranium green glass has been a product for nearly 200 years.
 
Fellows. It is more interesting to have 20 different types of legionaries than only one bomb that you put into the ground and blow up our whole earth.

I can not say I like the simple idea of warfare in those, our modern days. The problem is, what harm some man can do - it is incredibly vast.
In old days, kids played cowboy and indian. Today a civ-child may ask a game modder to have 50 more options to blast the whole planet. If only some of you fellows like this idea in a game I do not want to know what craziness some really stupid guy in power is thinking about our real earth.

What a pity :(

Yours,

Publius Aurelius

post scriptum: Recently I stumbled into an MP game where some guy just could not wait to launch his nukes "SOOOON I HAVE IT. WAIT AND SEE, PUBLIUS!!!!". After throwing his bombs it seemed to be the greatest time of his life ever: "MAAAAAN, DID YOU SEE THAT?????? AWESOME!!!!!!!"

Hopefully he has not that much weapons in his shelves as he has exclamation marks ;) At least, he seems to lack the knowledge how caps lock works :D
 
Covert22 said:
Yes, uranium and radium both have been used to make things such as watch faces glow. However Uranium by itself doesnt glow and the thought of it glowing in it's pure form is quite silly... similar to trying to use pure sodium for table salt.

I think alot of the myth stems back to early experiments that probably did produce a EXTREMELY faint glow as well as the glass coming from the Trinity experiment being bright green... you also need to remember that uranium green glass has been a product for nearly 200 years.

Noone ever said that pure uranium glows green. However, uranium compounds DO. Thats where the "myth" comes from. I mean, they *could* have uranium as just another metal-looking thing, but then you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from things like iron and aluminium in Civ4. Because of the green glowing of salts from way back when, uranium has been associated with the colour, even in its pure form.
 
dabossss said:
Noone ever said that pure uranium glows green. However, uranium compounds DO. Thats where the "myth" comes from. I mean, they *could* have uranium as just another metal-looking thing, but then you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from things like iron and aluminium in Civ4. Because of the green glowing of salts from way back when, uranium has been associated with the colour, even in its pure form.



A myth is still a myth...take a gander and pop culture with things like Back to the Future...

Anyone remember the pretty pink vials of plutonium?


Yes plutonium can make purple and pinkish shades with the use of oxidizers and heat, but it isnt practice nor does it have an industrial purpose... the same goes for uranium
 
ive seen some pretty awful nuke threads... figured this could use some more reading.
 
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