A comprehensive UU guide (the updated thread)

[Wodan]

Just for kicks I started a game with Roosevelt to see how fast I could get gunpowder. Got it in 815AD. I get the feeling I could do it even faster, but that's not too bad for the first attempt. Based on lightbulb limits what I figure is you need either GMs or GEs (doesn't matter, though for some reason it "hurts" more to use a GE on a lightbulb ). 3 or 4 of them would be nice but based on GPP income I don't figure it's possible to get 4. You could, however, go for the Oracle which I didn't but easily could have. (I didn't want to dilute my GPP with great prophet points, though the free tech might make that worth the gamble.) The other drawback is I don't think you can get Writing (if you do that, then the GMs will take you down the Currency path, which prohibits the lightbulbing where you need it). I did build the great lighthouse and colossus to get my GM points, plus the pyramids because I didn't have anything else to do and had stone, and if I tightened it up I could have skipped that.

There might be another solution that relies entirely on GE points, using the great wall, pyramids, and forge, then using 2-3 GEs to lightbulb. That's probably the most efficient route, plus you could get Writing if tech trading would help out.

Wodan

 

[Olaf_The_Great]

Fast Worker

The Fast Worker is faster at building terrain improvements / infrastructure (see below). So, to get the most out of this UU, adopt an early worker strategy. Likewise, an early rush strategy may prohibit building early workers; while it may be a good strategic choice, the negative of losing out some of the UU benefit should be considered.

Their increased movement means they can enter forest, jungle, or hills and immediately begin improving (thus they don't lose a turn on the movement). [Though, I think they still end their turn on a forested/jungled hill, someone can verify.]

In addition, they can improve a tile in one city, move to the next city and immediately begin improving there as well. This can allow a much tighter worker strategy... improving tiles only as city growth needs to utilize them. (For example, a city of size 5 only needs 5 improved tiles. The Fast Worker can have the 6th tile ready and waiting, and can flash on to the next city without having to lose a turn in movement.) In turn, this allows the Indians to flourish without having to produce as many workers as other civs.

Do not confuse the benefit, however; the Fast Worker does the actual improvement at the same speed as other workers.

The Fast Worker is the single UU that lasts the whole game, thus the benefit to the Indian leaders is less emphemeral than the UUs of all other civs.

Wodan

Which is exactly the reason why the Indians own,.

 

[Meatbuster]

Just for kicks I started a game with Roosevelt to see how fast I could get gunpowder. Got it in 815AD. ... Based on lightbulb limits what I figure is you need either GMs or GEs (doesn't matter, though for some reason it "hurts" more to use a GE on a lightbulb ). 3 or 4 of them would be nice but based on GPP income I don't figure it's possible to get 4.

815AD... is that on Monarch? Not bad!

I think that's because Scientists give more beakers when lightbulbing than other great persons. So (if following the "north" route) you can waste one sci on the academy, the next 1-2 on paper and/or education. This probably makes up for the time required to research Math, Currency, CoL and Civil Service "by hand", while avoiding the costly early-game detour of Mystiticsm - Polytheism - Priesthood and having to build Oracle.

Why would you Gunpowder rush with Roosevelt anyway, it isn't as worth it as with Naps or Mehmed... that is, unless you plan on fast Military Tradition...

@aelf: BTW, when I talk about (my?) beeline to Gunpowder, I always go the "north" route.

 

[cabert]

not meaning to be rude,
but DaveMcW managed a 9th century biology in the "8th challenge:supersize me", meaning that a 9th century gunpowder certainly isn't the best you can do.

 

[aelf]

It's all a question of lightbulbing. In the past, CS slingshot could also be used for a Gunpowder beeline, but I'm not sure about now.

Robo_Kai is right. Why don't you use GS's to lightbulb your way to Gunpowder (which would take you through the northern route), Wodan? They can lightbulb Paper and Education. Take your pick, or do both. They can also lightbulb Philosophy if you're looking to snag Liberalism first and grab Nationalism to draft your shiny new muskets UUs. More importantly, they don't rely on certain wonders (though Great Library would be nice), so Industrious (which neither Mehmed nor Napoleon have in Warlords) is not as necessary a trait.

Aside from this, when you click on all the techs that lead you to Gunpowder, it would appear that the techs on the northern route, though more numerous, take fewer turns to research. And these techs can actually improve your economy in the meantime (eg. CoL, CS and Education), thus helping you research towards Education more quickly.

 

[aelf]

I've written the entry on Impi. The infamous Redcoat is next.

 

[cabert]

I've written the entry on Impi. The infamous Redcoat is next.

good entry for the impi (in fact the entry is better than the UU )
just one (very!) small thing :
If you attach a GG to an impi you can give him a morale promotion, and have a 3 moves mobile spearman. Upgradable for free to a 2 moves mobile assault units... A bit risky, but still a nasty guy.

edit : spelling p Aelf)

 

[aelf]

good entry for the impy (in fact the entry is better than the UU )
just one (very!) small thing :
If you attach a GG to an impy you can give him a morale promotion, and have a 3 moves mobile spearman. Upgradable for free to a 2 moves mobile assault units... A bit risky, but still a nasty guy.

Impy? Impish Impies.

Good idea, by the way. But I'll add that tomorrow. Going to bed soon. Having a very early day tomorrow.

 

[dime]

Minor point on Numidian Cavalry - Johnny Rico's calculation of relative strength vs. Spearman is actually incorrect...

He stats 75% vs. Melee - 100% vs. Mounted = 25% vs. Mounter which gives 4*1.25 = 5 vs. 5 strength and an even chance... this is actually incorrect.

The Numidian Cavalry has strength 5... 75% bonus vs. Melee gives 5*1.75 = 8.75


The Spearman has strength 4... 100% bonus vs. Mounted gives 4*2 = 8

So, as long as the Spearman has no other defensive bonuses, Shock promoted Numidians will beat them. When adding Flanking 2 to the equation (which these guys will usually have) I like the chances vs. Spearman

/Andreas

 

[Wodan]

I'm going to start a new thread about beelining gunpowder
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4839129

Wodan

 

[johnny_rico]

Minor point on Numidian Cavalry - Johnny Rico's calculation of relative strength vs. Spearman is actually incorrect...

He stats 75% vs. Melee - 100% vs. Mounted = 25% vs. Mounter which gives 4*1.25 = 5 vs. 5 strength and an even chance... this is actually incorrect.

The Numidian Cavalry has strength 5... 75% bonus vs. Melee gives 5*1.75 = 8.75


The Spearman has strength 4... 100% bonus vs. Mounted gives 4*2 = 8

So, as long as the Spearman has no other defensive bonuses, Shock promoted Numidians will beat them. When adding Flanking 2 to the equation (which these guys will usually have) I like the chances vs. Spearman

/Andreas

thanks. I suppose I'm a little short in knowing how the combat bonuses are applied. I guess it made more sense to me that if each unit had combat bonuses against the other, they cancel out with the difference going to the unit with the higher bonus. If what Andreas states is true, than the numidian cavalry really have no early counter. With flanking, they should stack up well against early fortified archers also. On the battlefield, horse archers would be the only true counter so you bring your own spearmen.

However, it should be pointed out, the +75% bonus I was referring to in my original calculations implied shock 1. That being the case, combat 1 would be required. So, would the Numdians value be 5*1.85 = 9.25 instead. It makes it a little less likely flanking 2 will also be available but not far away. Numdian cavalry start with flanking 1 and will only need 8 xp vs. 10 xp to get to level 4 (charasmatic). Wow, you could have combat 1, shock, flanking 1 and 2 units pretty quickly. Barracks + stable + theocracy + 1st GG = 9 xp. In the immortal words of Neo, whoa!

Another game with Hannibal may be in order.

 

[cabert]

all those calculations are wrong
the bonus% are always applied to the defender (exception : combat promotions)

let's say unit A attacks unit B
bonus A is X%
bonus B is Y%

relative strength :
- if X>Y : A vs B / (1+X%-Y%)
- if X<Y : A vs B x (1+Y%-X%)
so 75% bonus from the cavalry just negates 75% of the bonus from the spear,
and it's A vs B* 1,25
happy now?

 

[dime]

all those calculations are wrong
the bonus% are always applied to the defender (exception : combat promotions)

let's say unit A attacks unit B
bonus A is X%
bonus B is Y%

relative strength :
- if X>Y : A vs B / (1+X%-Y%)
- if X<Y : A vs B x (1+Y%-X%)
so 75% bonus from the cavalry just negates 75% of the bonus from the spear,
and it's A vs B* 1,25
happy now?

So - Johnny Rico's initial statement was correct. Sorry JR!

I think this is a very odd way of calculating... this means that a bonus is as effective in countering another unit's bonuses independent of whether it is a STR1 or STR10 unit that has the bonus... remarkable

/Andreas

 

[cabert]

it's indeed a strange way to calculate, but that's how it works
only combat promotions apply always to the one who has them

 

[aelf]

Well, I didn't include any calculation in my article, did I? Saves me all that trouble

 

[idiot_savant]

good entry for the impi (in fact the entry is better than the UU )
just one (very!) small thing :
If you attach a GG to an impi you can give him a morale promotion, and have a 3 moves mobile spearman. Upgradable for free to a 2 moves mobile assault units... A bit risky, but still a nasty guy.

edit : spelling p Aelf)

I think this is a great general benefit -- similar, though not as effective as, to promoting Macemen to Grenadiers with CR3, etc. Just recently finished a Zulu game where I had kept a core group of Impis and promoted them to various stages of the game. It was fun to see Grendiers with 2 movement and tons of other promotions. It made a very effective force with my Cavalry units... Still made issues with protecting Seige weapons though.

Anyway, just wanted to extend Cabert's point a bit as I think it is a unique benefit for Impis. Not sure how many people promote broad groups of units through the game.

 

[aelf]

It was fun to see Grendiers with 2 movement and tons of other promotions.

AFAIK Mobility does not grant an extra movement point, so why did your grenadiers have two moves?

 

[johnny_rico]

So I was right the first time and got excited for nothing. Thx cabert.

I think my initial calculation, which was correct, is more fitting. Didn't seem reasonable the numidian cavalry would basically own all melee units of it's time plus negate it's counter.

 

[aelf]

Added Cabert's gambit to the Impi entry, with a little twist of my own.

 

[johnny_rico]

Impi's must have a movement of 2, else mobility would be a useless promotion. What's the point of reducing the cost of moving up a hill when the unit only has one MP to begin with?