A Democratic Dictatorship

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zulu9812

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from http://www.fff.org/comment/com0604i.asp
by Jacob G. Hornberger, April 26, 2006

Given all the discussion and debate about whether President Bush will order his military forces to attack Iran, now would be a good time to review the state of liberty in America.

No one can deny that we now live in a country in which the ruler has the omnipotent power to send the entire nation into war on his own initiative. To use the president’s words, when it comes to declaring and waging war against another country, he’s the “decider.”

It wasn’t always that way. The Constitution brought into existence a government in which the powers to declare war and wage war were vested in two separate branches of the government. While the president had the power to wage war, he was prohibited from exercising it without a declaration of war from Congress.

The idea behind the Constitution itself was that a free society necessarily entails restrictions on the power of the government, especially its ruler.

Yet we now live in a nation in which the president has the omnipotent power to ignore all constitutional restraints on his power. That might not be the way the president and his legal advisors put it, but that is the practical effect of what they are saying to justify his powers. They effectively claim that the Constitution vests the president — as military commander in chief during the “war on terrorism” — with such extraordinary powers that he is able to ignore restraints on his powers imposed both by the Constitution and by Congress.

No restraints on declaring and waging war against other nations. No restraints on the power to secretly record telephone conversations of the American people. No restraints on the power to kidnap and send people into overseas concentration camps for the purpose of torture and even execution. No restraints on the power to take Americans into custody as “enemy combatants” and punish them — even torture and execute them — without due process of law and jury trials.

If all that isn’t dictatorship, what is?

“But President Bush is a good man. He’s trying to protect us. He’s waging war against the terrorists. He’s not evil like other dictators in history. He was elected. He can be trusted.”

People who say that are missing the point. The suggestion is not that Bush is an evil man. The point is simply that Bush now wields the same omnipotent, dictatorial powers that other dictators in history have wielded. That is not a small transformation in American life when it comes to freedom.

“Well, then, where are the mass round-ups, and where are the concentration camps?”

Again, people who ask that type of question are missing the point. The point is not whether Bush is exercising his omnipotent, dictatorial power to the maximum extent. It’s whether he now possesses omnipotent, dictatorial power, power that can be exercised whenever circumstances dictate it — for example, during another major terrorist attack on American soil, when Americans become overly frightened again.

Unless the American people figure out a way to reverse what has happened to their country — and have the will to do something about it — they will earn the mark of shame reserved for those people in history who voluntarily relinquished their freedom in exchange for the aura of security. Like all others in history who have chosen such a course, they will ultimately learn that they have lost both their freedom and their security.

Oh. Yes.

That article pretty much sums up my opinion of the USA right now. Liberty - use it or lose it!
 
This goes a lot wider than the points which the article brings up. There is also the ominous shift in the news media that is occuring in the US (reason why I opened up the news media representation thread). Influence on the World Bank (see what Wolfowitz is doing to it). Destablising influence on the UN. Etc etc.

Napoleon would have approved of all this and look what happened to him....
 
Perhaps true, but Bush is hardly the first president to have overstepped constitutional boundaries to usurp such despotic power, especially in relation to starting wars and stripping away common liberties in the name of defence and security. It's been a process a century in the making to bring America toward dictatorship.
 
garric said:
Oh look another trollish post by zulu. Somehow I'm not surprized.
What are your specific gripes against the article?
 
Rambuchan said:
What are your specific gripes against the article?
Let's see,

Zulu puts up articles every day that are essentially the same thing: Liberal biased "observations" taken out of context, in some way targeted at the United States or president Bush in an attempt to say something like "Teh United States is an evil empire with civil rights abuse and racism." or "Bush is a tyrant and/or a moron and should be impeached."

He plays this silly parade over and over again every day in an attempt to prove some sort of point and is egged on by the largely liberal userbase of these forums, in which he essentially flames Americans (and the blind liberals from America don't really understand that either) and gets away with it.

He never has anything to say really. He probably takes these articles from some other liberal forum or by google, and posts it here, adding an edgy little comment at the end like: "That article pretty much sums up my opinion of the USA right now. Liberty - use it or lose it!". Aka a TROLL.
 
garric said:
Oh look another trollish post by zulu. Somehow I'm not surprized.

Huh? What's trollish about it? You may disagree with the article, but it seems a reasoned argument which you are at liberty to refute...

Off Topic: I like your sig though! Manowar, IIRC....

On Topic: I agree with the article. The thing to remember is that ALL dictatorships start in the same way: the would-be dictator arouses fear against a common enemy (Bush's 'War on Terrorism') and persuades the soon-to-be-dicatees that they must give up their liberties so they can be safe from those enemies.

Interesting that Bush calls himself the 'decider' BTW.... for those who don't know Latin, 'dictator' means 'the one who speaks'... in other words, 'the one who says what will be done'..... sound anything like 'decider' to you?
 
I still cannot classify the U.S as a dictatorship. The president does not have full power. His veto for instance can be overturned by the house if they get enough votes and there are checks and balances to all legislation he opposes/wants.
 
Dragonlord said:
Huh? What's trollish about it? You may disagree with the article, but it seems a reasoned argument which you are at liberty to refute...

Off Topic: I like your sig though! Manowar, IIRC....

On Topic: I agree with the article. The thing to remember is that ALL dictatorships start in the same way: the would-be dictator arouses fear against a common enemy (Bush's 'War on Terrorism') and persuades the soon-to-be-dicatees that they must give up their liberties so they can be safe from those enemies.

Interesting that Bush calls himself the 'decider' BTW.... for those who don't know Latin, 'dictator' means 'the one who speaks'... in other words, 'the one who says what will be done'..... sound anything like 'decider' to you?

He might call himself the decider but he still cant do everything he wants.

The United States government is not going to collapse into a dictatorship under bush. As in my last post i said that there are still checks and balances and not every legislation the president suggests even gets near passing.

For example the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was never passed for obvious reasons. I dont think the bill even got far.
 
No one can deny that we now live in a country in which the ruler has the omnipotent power to send the entire nation into war on his own initiative. To use the president’s words, when it comes to declaring and waging war against another country, he’s the “decider.”
This is also true of the UK. TB can declare war against whoever the hell he feels like under the Royal Prerogative and no one can contest that decision.

So why doesn't he? Because he doesn't have the political capital to do so. He knows launching a war against, for example, Iran would have dire reprecussions for his political party.

George Bush faces the same restrictions. Yes, theoretically he has the power to declare war against Iran but I feel that to say there are:
No restraints on declaring and waging war against other nations
is evaluating the matter a little too simplistically for my liking. It begs the question of whether the US system of only allowing 2 terms is a good one since the President in the last years of his Office has nothing to lose. But that's a whole different thread topic.
 
The whole article is bunk. And it is the same exact hooey that Zulu always links up around here.
Moderator Action: Address the article - don't just make ad hominem attacks
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Example: Didnt we have a congressional vote for approval of the invasion in Iraq? I seem to recall even Senator Kerry voted FOR the war didnt he? So, hows does that equate to a dictatorship? Answer: it doesnt, unless of course you are so paranoid and blind that such a scenario is all you can see.
 
^ Nice flame. Solid and thorough analysis too. :rolleyes:

Some of us appreciate Zulu's scrutiny and sense of enquiry.
 
Rambuchan said:
^ Nice flame. Solid and thorough analysis too. :rolleyes:

Some of us appreciate Zulu's scrutiny.

I didnt see the flame in mobbosses point. He didnt accuse anyone of being paranoid.

If you ever stuidied american government and how laws are passed you would see its not a dictatorship.
 
MobBoss said:
The whole article is bunk. And it is the same exact hooey that Zulu always links up around here.

Example: Didnt we have a congressional vote for approval of the invasion in Iraq? I seem to recall even Senator Kerry voted FOR the war didnt he? So, hows does that equate to a dictatorship? Answer: it doesnt, unless of course you are so paranoid and blind that such a scenario is all you can see.

Yes he did actually vote for it.

And yes we do need congressional approval. And not everyone in congress thinks the same way even if they were all republican or all democrat.
 
PrinceOfLeigh said:
So why doesn't he? Because he doesn't have the political capital to do so. He knows launching a war against, for example, Iran would have dire reprecussions for his political party.

You know, I've ceased to believe TB has the interests of his party at heart.
It's just a vehicle for him.
The manner of his leaving will be interesting, to this point.

Remember how his hero, Thatcher, screwed her party where it didn't coincide with her ego, and left it in the wilderness. I suspect TB will do the same.

I agree he's out of political capital, though I'm not sure he knows.

Blair and Bush should be tried and shot. (Justify it with new anti-terror legislation)
 
Rambuchan said:
Some of us appreciate Zulu's scrutiny.

Well, after reading thread after thread of his "scrutiny" I would come to the conlusion that his behavior has gone past "scrutiny" and approached paranoid dellusion and obsession.

But to each his own.
 
MobBoss said:
Well, after reading thread after thread of his "scrutiny" I would come to the conlusion that his behavior has gone past "scrutiny" and approached paranoid dellusion and obsession.

But to each his own.
I'd say yours are the flip side of the same coin, only worse. But that would be talking about the posting member and not the subject matter - which is the point I was making about to those disagreeing with the OP. Forget Zulu, deal with the article.
 
Rambuchan said:
I'd say yours are the flip side of the same coin, only worse. But that would be talking about the posting member and not the subject matter - which is the point I was making about to those disagreeing with the OP. Forget Zulu, deal with the article.

Whats to deal with? It is bunk on all points. Once more, congress is greatly involved in how our government runs and operates. It hasnt been disbanded. GWB, while president, isnt a dictator. Far from it.
 
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