A general strategy for Poland

[megabearsfan]

Continuing my series of Civ V BNW strategies, I have just published a guide for Poland. Please check it out at:
http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2014/02/22/Civ-V-Poland-strategy.aspx

As always, I appreciate any feedback, so please comment, share, or rate the post as you see fit. I also welcome any discussion about the strategy guide or Poland strategies in general in this forum topic.

This is my fifth strategy post. The first four are:
Assyria the tech thief
Brazil the jungle king
spicy Indonesia
Moroccan gatekeepers

I will also be posting a similar thread on the official 2k forums.

 

[joncnunn]

scanning thru the article:

"God of the Open Sky" is one of the more popular ones by the AI to choose; it's in love with culture only pantheons.
Also it seems that I get starts with fewer horses/cattle/cows on average playing Poland than with other civs.

I see a reference to caravans: Build cargo ships instead if you have a coastal city.

Policy references: I wouldn't open Honor until finishing your intended first tree even with Poland's faster policy rate. The tradition / liberty / piety finishers are all much stronger and you want whichever tree you chose ASAP.
I'm surprised Piety isn't mentioned. Poland is the one civ best suited for a full Piety tree first start as it will have time to finish Tradition second before Rationalism.

Rationalism should also be mentioned as well in that sectionl as it's the best tree for all civs, including Poland, for all forms of victory.

Parthenon: I'd skip that as there isn't a theming bonus attached. Oracle though is good.

Cultural section: Opening Exploration should wait for Industrial. (Louve isn't available until the Industrial era.) Exception if you haven't met everybody yet and so want Exploration opener's normal benefits.
I'd also add Globe Theatre to that list; it's shaky on Immortal but other than Oxford is the only source of literature theming bonuses.

The scientific victory section appears to be assuming a self founding wide empire.
If going 4 city tall; you're better off with other policies after Tradition while waiting for Rationalism to open.
One possibility is take by Consulates (increase city state resting point by 20 points), top right of Exploration (happiness from naval buildings) and opener of Aesthetics. (faster great guild specialists). And as Poland you can get all that in the same game without slowing down Rationalism.

Diplomatic victory: The city states with barb camp requests always reveal where the camp is; no need to open Honor for that.
Yes, Rationalism is great. But before you can open Rationalism you may be able to get quite a few more policies within Patronage as Poland.

AI: Gets a 25% research handicap even on Settler. I think it's the population growth handicap you are referring to there as that's the ongoing one that grows as the difficulty level increases. But you may also be referring to the AI starting handicaps.

Poland peaking in mid game??? Only in hands of dumb AI. In hands of a human they'll build on the success they've already achieved.

 

[megabearsfan]

Thanks for the feedback.

Diplomatic victory: The city states with barb camp requests always reveal where the camp is; no need to open Honor for that.

I like to take Honor whenever I know I'm going to be hunting barbs. Even though the CS will tell me where the camp is, it's still nice to know early, so that I can get my units there before someone else clears it. I like to have a unit waiting to pounce on the camp as soon as the quest is given.

Poland peaking in mid game??? Only in hands of dumb AI. In hands of a human they'll build on the success they've already achieved.

What I mean by peaking is that it's when all their uniques come together: The Ducal Stable and Winged Hussar are most potent in Renaissance / early Industrial. By the late Industrial / Modern, the Winged Hussars are outclassed. The upgraded AT Guns can still be effective, but nowhere near as potent as when they were hussars. The helicopters are easily managed (I found) by air power. They're still strong in the late game, but a step down from where they were.

Also, mid-game aggression may leave Poland vulnerable, so waiting until after their Winged Hussar campaigns are complete is a good time to attack them.

But that's all from my experience. Actual results may vary

 

[budweiser]

A little off the mark here. Solidarity: We are one.

Did you consider Poland's synergy with the Patronage tree when you conducted your analysis?

What about their ability to make bank?

In the illustration below, I have teched writing>math to get the first extra policy circa t50. Then Horse back riding for the UB and currency for the markets. I built ToA here because I had the salt. Polish start bias seems to favor salt so it can be a benefit to use it early. Aristocracy was my second policy. You can sell salt and also get extra food/hammers. I finished the whole Tradition tree about 15 turns ago and can start on a second tree. The archers mark the general location of the next cities which can be purchased with gold. Making 38 gpt here with 30 science which isn't too bad.

Since AH is a good choice for early research, you can get a caravan out early either for a CS quest, extra beakers from a civ or internal food.

If I choose Patronage here, the 5 visible CS will form the nucleus of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth. My army will favor spearmen which can bu upgraded to UU if needed. This game is won already.

I haven't finished scouting yet, but can anyone see a potential avenue of attack for my Hussars?

 

[Novalia]

this dude makes some pretty civilization overviews.. i cant vouch for their strategic sense because its all just too much for me to read..
http://www.megabearsfan.net/archive.aspx#cat-Strategy

 

[kb27787]

A little off the mark here. Solidarity: We are one.

Did you consider Poland's synergy with the Patronage tree when you conducted your analysis?

What about their ability to make bank?

In the illustration below, I have teched writing>math to get the first extra policy circa t50. Then Horse back riding for the UB and currency for the markets. I built ToA here because I had the salt. Polish start bias seems to favor salt so it can be a benefit to use it early. Aristocracy was my second policy. You can sell salt and also get extra food/hammers. I finished the whole Tradition tree about 15 turns ago and can start on a second tree. The archers mark the general location of the next cities which can be purchased with gold. Making 38 gpt here with 30 science which isn't too bad.

Since AH is a good choice for early research, you can get a caravan out early either for a CS quest, extra beakers from a civ or internal food.

If I choose Patronage here, the 5 visible CS will form the nucleus of the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth. My army will favor spearmen which can bu upgraded to UU if needed. This game is won already.

I haven't finished scouting yet, but can anyone see a potential avenue of attack for my Hussars?

really? Is the game won? You don't have faith output though... (I'd rather tech theology line to be honest)

I'd rather have liberty/piety as my extra tree than patronage though.

 

[budweiser]

really? Is the game won? You don't have faith output though... (I'd rather tech theology line to be honest)

I'd rather have liberty/piety as my extra tree than patronage though.

Yes it was won. I killed China with cannon/Hussar. A very easy game.

Do you know that Poland can finish Tradition around turn 70 and finish Patronage around 130? Then you just give gold to CS all the time. Was making about 175 GPT pre industrial yesterday. Once you get the extra science from the allies your BPT goes up faster than the AI. Pretty soon its t140 and the Hussar are unlocked. That's a beat down for any AI. They will push back even Rifles.

This is my general strategy for Poland: Tradition>Patronage>Attack with Hussar.

Here is another example:

In the first screen shot, I have finished tradition.
In the second screen shot, I am just showing that a barb camp where the scout is completed 4 quests. I give gold and they are my allies. The third shot shows that Patronage will finish in 2 turns. YMMV depending on terrain.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Aww, you started next to Vilnius!

I found tommy's guide to Poland super effective

 

[budweiser]

Ideology: If you tech into Modern, then you have to pick a policy before you can open an ideology. I think if you did three factories, you could pick the ideology and then possible enter Modern for a third ideology policy.

 

[anthropophage]

Poland can make the jump to Radio immediately upon researching Public Schools though, by stacking Oxford and the Rationalism finisher. Going factories first slows you down I think.

 

[Browd]

But even then, the policy that Poland gets on entering the Modern era can't be used to pick a tenet, since you don't get to pick your Ideology until one turn after entering the Modern era.

 

[budweiser]

I ended up doing a 2 City Autocracy Domination having to traverse huge mountain ranges and also cross the inland sea. You cant see it in the picture but there is a huge mountain range that cuts off Spain and the only access to Madrid was a single tile path through another CS. I waited until artillery to even start any attack and since I teched Acoustics first and didnt use it, I wasted a few more turns.

I cant wait to set up another one and see if I can get some easier terrain. I want to try Blitz on those Hussars.

 

[neilkaz]

Tommynt's guide is a mix of Tradition and Liberty that I've found very effective for easy wins playing Immortal.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501378

Another interesting approach would be to go Tradition and Patronage as Bud is doing now.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[budweiser]

Hussar: Blitz on the Hussar gave 7xp per attack with the left side Honor policy. However due to my choice of targets, the Hussar quickly ran out of health and had to be sidelined. Not acceptable. It would seem March is desirable before Blitz. The extra Charge promotion also seems desirable, but I didnt use it yet. The lifespan of the Hussar is long but it will end eventually, and you just wont get in that many attacks to reach a super high level given that the AI will only produce so many units (victims).

So the idea here would be to launch an attack around the 180-200 time frame with the goal of ending the game by domination circa t250. I start with 4 Hussar and 4 cannon, and a melee or two to hold the flank. You need to keep building and sending in fresh troops. Peak at around 6 cannon and 8 Hussar. By the time you are ready for your second civ, you will probably have Artillery. You can easily conquer half the world this way. The AI musket army cannot cope. I have done this every time.

What I haven't done is send out an army in each direction at once and that is what is needed on most pangeas. So I need a way to acquire those extra units. I also need a good way to transition to Autocracy to get the most out of the war fighting tenets.

 

[kb27787]

Hussar: Blitz on the Hussar gave 7xp per attack with the left side Honor policy. However due to my choice of targets, the Hussar quickly ran out of health and had to be sidelined. Not acceptable. It would seem March is desirable before Blitz. The extra Charge promotion also seems desirable, but I didnt use it yet. The lifespan of the Hussar is long but it will end eventually, and you just wont get in that many attacks to reach a super high level given that the AI will only produce so many units (victims).

So the idea here would be to launch an attack around the 180-200 time frame with the goal of ending the game by domination circa t250. I start with 4 Hussar and 4 cannon, and a melee or two to hold the flank. You need to keep building and sending in fresh troops. Peak at around 6 cannon and 8 Hussar. By the time you are ready for your second civ, you will probably have Artillery. You can easily conquer half the world this way. The AI musket army cannot cope. I have done this every time.

What I haven't done is send out an army in each direction at once and that is what is needed on most pangeas. So I need a way to acquire those extra units. I also need a good way to transition to Autocracy to get the most out of the war fighting tenets.

I was told winged hussars (as do lancers) suck do they or are they strong?
but t250 domination seems a bit too late with just arty... (I'm sure everyone has planes by now)

 

[budweiser]

I was told winged hussars (as do lancers) suck do they or are they strong?
but t250 domination seems a bit too late with just arty... (I'm sure everyone has planes by now)

They are strong like bull. Lancer is weak. I had a Lancer or two in my army last night - no comparison.

Why dont you try things for yourself instead of going by what you read on the Internet? A lot of people on this forum go by what they read and dont bother to think much for themselves.

Re: planes at 250 so should you since you went Autocracy. Anyway, you will be #1 in science if you do it right. If not, that's what spies are for.

 

[anthropophage]

//I was told winged hussars (as do lancers) suck do they or are they strong?\\

It's one of the Renaissances most powerful combat units, stronger and faster than the unit it replaces and capable of taking on almost all industrial era units without too much trouble. The extra mobility means they can outmanoeuvre riflemen to stack flanking bonuses thereby dealing more damage, and surround individual units to prevent withdrawal thereby getting bonus damage too.

A WH based army is very viable for a long while after they become available, so you can get an awful lot done with them. They don't go obsolete until the opposition gets replaceable parts. It's a shame Anti-Tank guns suck.

 

[joncnunn]

//I was told winged hussars (as do lancers) suck do they or are they strong?\\
.

Lancer: Suck big time; mostly due to requiring horses and competing directly against Calvary.

Hussar: It's a good unit; but you need to remember to save horses.

 

[anthropophage]

Lancer: Suck big time; mostly due to requiring horses and competing directly against Calvary.

Celtic lancers that started life as pictish warriors are quite useful, +20% attack outside your borders and free pillaging are very worthwhile on a unit with 4 movement points that can move after attacking.

 

[budweiser]

Here is another example to show how fast you can set up. There were 3 RAs and a GS bulb. I have a choice of which tech to choose from Oxford and am so tempted to choose Fertilizer. Trad/pat complete and 2 left side Honor complete. I will attack Washington and also Austria but am nervous about it so I will pause here. I will be science leader after I pick this tech, tied with England. Was gifted a General.