A.I should not always be BRIBED!

[Nooble]

It's lame how the A.I can always be bribed to go to war if you have what they want. Sometimes the A.I should fight for what they believe for, not fight because they recieve gold/luxeries.

 

[dojoboy]

It's lame how the A.I can always be bribed to go to war if you have what they want.

Well, it is what they want. The US was able to get several nations to its side for the Iraq War, against the tide of public opinion within those countries.

Sometimes the A.I should fight for what they believe for, not fight because they recieve gold/luxeries.

Ruin your reputation and the AI will not side with you, or make you pay out-the-nose for their assistance. They (AI) "believe" you are a loose cannon and not to be trusted.

 

[AA-battery]

I think the AI's willingness to war is fine as it is. But they never offer you any good deals if your the one they want to persuade to join them in a war, or at least it seems that way to me...

 

[Cheeze]

Yes, I agree with AA-battery. Once the Inca were at war with one of my neighbors, so I tried to get something out of a military alliance. It turned out that I just declared war on my own as they wanted a tech for an alliance against someone they were already at war with.

 

[Nooble]

Ok, so it's fine when you've been nice to a civilization for 1000 years, and giving them free techs, then they get bribed from your enemy civ then they go to war with you?????

I don't think Canada will go to war if anotehr country tries to bribe them.

 

[DaveDash]

I think it works out fine at the moment. The AI demand a lot if you are asking them to go to war with a powerful country, maybe not enough perhaps.

 

[wilbill]

Sometimes the A.I should fight for what they believe for, not fight because they recieve gold/luxeries.

And what should the AI, which consists of lines of code in a computer program, believe in? Friendship, Truth, Justice? You can only go so far in programming it to imitate human qualities.

I do agree, though, that a couple of thousand years of friendly relations should make it a little less likely for an AI civ to go to war with you than it is currently. But keep in mind that the AI is programmed to keep you from winning, and at some point, going to war with you may be the only way it can do that.

 

[DaveDash]

That's pretty idealistic thinking from many people here.

I find it unrealistic that nations would be friendly with each other for thousands of years.

The further WW1/WW2 leaves the memories of our peoples the closer another one will come. It's already happening with the disintergration and ineffectiveness of the United Nations.

The only thing that would even band humankind together is a 3rd party invasion, and 100 years after that we would be back to our dirty old tricks again.

Don't let the relative peace between western nations fool you, remember we are riding on the backs of the most horrible wars the world has ever seen, but it won't last for ever.

Old friends will be enemies and old enemies will be friends. There is no nation out there, Canada, the U.S. or even mine (New Zealand) that will give up opportunities for another country or 'the greater good'.

It's survival of the fittest and civ represents that well.

 

[Admiral8Q]

I don't think Canada will go to war if anotehr country tries to bribe them.

Ha ha! Good point.

That is a bit unrealistic, like North Korea bribing Canada to go to war with the USA

 

[DaveDash]

Ha ha! Good point.

That is a bit unrealistic, like North Korea bribing Canada to go to war with the USA

In game terms, Canada and the United States would have significant trade deals with each other (luxuries or whatever) and North Korea wouldn't have enough money to compensate.

But in 500 years, who knows? It's entirely possible in the real world for the U.S. and Canada to have a war. Not now, but one day, yes.

 

[Admiral8Q]

In game terms, Canada and the United States would have significant trade deals with each other (luxuries or whatever) and North Korea wouldn't have enough money to compensate.

But in 500 years, who knows? It's entirely possible in the real world for the U.S. and Canada to have a war. Not now, but one day, yes.

Another good point

Sometimes we forget that Civ takes place over thousands of years.

 

[Smellincoffee]

You forget, we Americans and Canadians already had our war. Actually, we had two of them. And both times we invaded Canada, we came out regretting it.

 

[colontos]

North Korea would be just 5 cities or less, still in a despotism, their army support cost eating their economy, and using up all their shields trying to build some ICBMs. concentrating so much on producing shields that they cant produce enough food and all their cities are starving.

 

[morchuflex]

That's pretty idealistic thinking from many people here.
Don't let the relative peace between western nations fool you, remember we are riding on the backs of the most horrible wars the world has ever seen, but it won't last for ever.
Old friends will be enemies and old enemies will be friends. There is no nation out there, Canada, the U.S. or even mine (New Zealand) that will give up opportunities for another country or 'the greater good'.

I may be very idealistic, but I completely disagree. I am almost sure that the great European nations (France, England, Germany, Italy...) won't ever again go to war against each other.
In fact, I can't think of a war ever occurring between two nations that both have met the criteria of what the 18th century called the Enlightenment (quickly: democracy - or at least some kind of representation -, no involvment of religion in politics, unrestricted science, freedom of speech and thought, equal rights whatever gender or race, and renouncing nationalist myths like "racial purity" or "home soil" - this list may be incomplete, I'm in a rush).
Both world wars saw democracies stick together against fascist states.
And since then, the only notable European conflicts happened in a region that is still far from Enlightenment, with a lot of religious and nationalist fanaticism.

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

But they never offer you any good deals if your the one they want to persuade to join them in a war, or at least it seems that way to me...

I agree! I miss those old days when the AI actually offered something to you to go to war. In the old Civ's, I remember one moment when the AI wanted me do declare war on a country that I DID NOT WANT to attack. I would NEVER NEVER NEVER make war with this Civ!!! Until... he gave me such a tempting offer that I actually accepted!

Now, civ's that aren't really your ally propose you to declare war on your good friends without any benefit! Buh!

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

In game terms, Canada and the United States would have significant trade deals with each other (luxuries or whatever) and North Korea wouldn't have enough money to compensate.

But in 500 years, who knows? It's entirely possible in the real world for the U.S. and Canada to have a war. Not now, but one day, yes.

You have a point. But right NOW, CANADA would not attack USA. And if Canada was ruled by the AI (vote for the AI in the next elections!), it would be possible if you paid them enough.

There should be some sort of LEVELS of friendship, where you'd be in trouble (also at home) if you declared war to an ALLY (applied both to AI and human)

The reaction of US citizens of having US attack Iraq is probably different from the reaction of US attacking Canada... also because the OFFICIAL reason for attacking Iraq is really a defensive war against terrorism... nothing to do with a resource named "oil"!

 

[tR1cKy]

I agree that, sometimes, AI bribes are somewhat ridicolous. But a more "realistic" response from the AIs would need a far deeper diplomacy model. Considering the diplomatic option we have in the game, things are satisfactory.

 

[DaveDash]

You have a point. But right NOW, CANADA would not attack USA. And if Canada was ruled by the AI (vote for the AI in the next elections!), it would be possible if you paid them enough.

There should be some sort of LEVELS of friendship, where you'd be in trouble (also at home) if you declared war to an ALLY (applied both to AI and human)

The reaction of US citizens of having US attack Iraq is probably different from the reaction of US attacking Canada... also because the OFFICIAL reason for attacking Iraq is really a defensive war against terrorism... nothing to do with a resource named "oil"!

There are more variables in real life that are not factored into the game, I do agree. For example, the massed military strength of the United States sitting in close proximity to Canada would be a good reason not to go to war, something the AI doesn't take into consideration.

Also, the irony in your statements is that Canada actually has significantly more oil than Iraq, which the U.S. can get cheaper in terms of dollars, lives, and so forth.

Anyway, I've noticed one thing about this forum, and that is people love mixing politics into their posts, I think we can have discussion about the topics at hand without slipping in our little political opinions about real world issues?

Im really not interested in getting into any arguments with people over whatever political, this is a civ forum, not democraticunderground.

I may be very idealistic, but I completely disagree. I am almost sure that the great European nations (France, England, Germany, Italy...) won't ever again go to war against each other

You may be right, and it would be a good thing, but there are no absolutes when dealing with humanity.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

It would be nice, I think, if the computer had better ways of gauging the pros and cons of going to war. If the apparant value of any given military were halved when not on the same continent, for example, it would go a long way to making their assessment more realistic.

 

[Admiral8Q]

You forget, we Americans and Canadians already had our war. Actually, we had two of them. And both times we invaded Canada, we came out regretting it.

Yes but somehow I doubt that this has anything to do with an ouside influence bribing one or the other

There should be some sort of LEVELS of friendship, where you'd be in trouble (also at home) if you declared war to an ALLY (applied both to AI and human)

This would certanly improve the diplomatic game play, for sure.

The reaction of US citizens of having US attack Iraq is probably different from the reaction of US attacking Canada... also because the OFFICIAL reason for attacking Iraq is really a defensive war against terrorism... nothing to do with a resource named "oil"!

Well it has to do with political, diplomatic, cultural, and economic reasons. If Canada stopped supplying any resourses to the USA perhaps a war would be imminent?

There are more variables in real life that are not factored into the game, I do agree. For example, the massed military strength of the United States sitting in close proximity to Canada would be a good reason not to go to war, something the AI doesn't take into consideration.

Yes, hopefully they'll implement this into Civ4

Also, the irony in your statements is that Canada actually has significantly more oil than Iraq, which the U.S. can get cheaper in terms of dollars, lives, and so forth.

But it's never enough

Anyway, I've noticed one thing about this forum, and that is people love mixing politics into their posts, I think we can have discussion about the topics at hand without slipping in our little political opinions about real world issues?

Im really not interested in getting into any arguments with people over whatever political, this is a civ forum, not democraticunderground.

I agree. Let's keep it that way.