A Labor Proposal

[ravensfire]

As Fanatika continues to grow and develop, the demands upon the available resources will continue to grow in both quantity and complexity. Therefore, I propose the following to alleviate this problem.

Division of Labor
First, there shall be a clear division of labor. Under normal circumstances, the Governor of a province shall have control over workers and militia within their province. Militia is defined as those units responsible for the defense of the province from an attack.

Under extreme circumstances (invasion), the President may declare an emergency, and assume control of units as needed. Once the emergency is over, the President is responsible for returning units to the provinces unless otherwise directed by the Senate.

Responsibilities
At the beginning of each term, the President and their advisors shall determine the national goals for that term. These goals should be clear and unambiguous. These goals shall be communicated to the Senate, and include how each province may assist in these objectives. These goals may change during the term of the President. The President should include rough timelines for requests made to each province, with the understanding this is not a binding request.

At the beginning of each term, each Governor shall determine the provincial goals for their province for that term. These goals should be clear and unambiguous. These goals shall include input from the citizens and represent the wishes of the citizens of Fanatika.

Prior to each Turn Chat, each Governor shall review the list of national goals and provincial goals. This list should be the basis of all decisions and instructions made for the province. The Designated Player shall use this list to determine their actions for the turns played.

If there are any workers assigned to the National Work Force, the President and their advisors are responsible, along with citizen input, for determining their actions.

Any worker not given orders or guidelines may be used as the Designated Player sees fit, but must stay within the boundaries of the province.

Workers
Workers belong to the province responsible for creating them. Workers may be transferred to another province, or to the National Work Force. Workers transferred to another province shall be moved to that province in an expedient manner, only stopping if the new Governor agrees with the request.

Workers transferred to the National Work Force shall be renamed to include NWF after their name. These workers are under the control of the President and their advisors who, along with citizen input, will determine the actions of these workers. Governors must be advised of all NWF worker activities in their province, and must agree to any terraforming activities that will alter existing improvements or change the land type.

Captured Workers
During times of war, it is expected that the Armies of Fanatika will free the citizens of oppressed countries, and provide gainful employment for them. These captured workers shall be under the control of the President during the war effort.

At the conclusion of the war, or earlier at the President’s discretion, workers may be transferred to the Senate for distribution to the Provinces. The Senate, with citizen input, shall determine the allocation of capture workers.

(comments next post)
- Ravensfire

 

[ravensfire]

Whew – it’s a bit longer than I originally thought, but I tried to cover every base. Some of this is from ideas others have expressed. Although they are not named here (mostly because I cannot remember them all), please note that much of this has come from others.

The core idea is that of strong provincial Governors, with national leadership provided by the President. A weak President will produce a nation that does not have a clear course, and moves in opposite directions. A strong President will guide the provinces towards the national goals, while allowing them to develop. An example of this would be the demands made upon the provinces. The more developed provinces will bear the burden of supporting the nation, while the newer provinces are catching up.

Cooperation is the absolute key here. Without it, this is the worst possible plan. This will also increase the need for good Governors, not just the first person to apply for the position. Perhaps more Governorships will be contested elections, allowing some debate about the goals. I would also hope that there could be some interested Presidential debates over national objectives.

The role of the citizen remains the same – advise and approve of decisions.

There is also the escape clause of a declared emergency. Although not required during times of war, this can be a valuable tool for the nation to focus all of its energy on a single task.

The debates I’m seeing are starting to look a bit circular. I’d like to start seeing concrete proposals for the solution, so I’m putting up (since I can’t shut up! ). I hope to see both comments here, and additional plans proposed.

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Nice job. One thing: were using 1.29, so renaming of workers is impossible until DG:3. I like the goals part. Sometimes, I feel we are moving towards no goal at all. The DP already does have control over the military units. And as of now, the workers (Grand Fanatikan Railroad). Here is a link you may be intereseted in which is dealing with the worker probelm.
Judicial Worker Review
One where the citizens are commenting

And as to this comment:
The debates I’m seeing are starting to look a bit circular. I’d like to start seeing concrete proposals for the solution, so I’m putting up (since I can’t shut up! ). I hope to see both comments here, and additional plans proposed.
Welcome to Fanatika, land of indecisions (please dont take that as a pointy stick, Shai)

Anyways, welcome to the DG
SaaM

 

[disorganizer]

2 things:

1) the national general goals of the president should be defined BEFORE the term starts. it should be a forced part of the debattes before election, so the citizenry can decide which president has the best overall goals. those official goals should not be changeable without approval of the senate.

2) naming of workers is imho not needed. we just need someone (vice president?) to keep track of the workers and whom they belong. for example if a road is worked on by 4 workers and 2 of them are national and 2 are provincial, it doesnt matter which of the 4 workers belongs to whom. if the nation decides to withdraw its workers from the job, 2 of them are withdrawn. the remaining are the provincial ones.

 

[Veera Anlai]

Actually, I rather like this proposal. The combination of a Domestic and National work force could provide the best of both worlds... As long as we have that cooperation :-D
The largest difficulty will be getting this passed into law. Our nation has a terrible track record for passing new legislation.

 

[ravensfire]

SAaM - Ummm, yeah, just hand me that pipe over there, would you? No, no, don't look into it, you don't need to know. Ahhhh, that's better. Oh wow man, look at all the colors. Far out ....

Dis - Point 1 - Yes. Yes. I wouldn't worry about requiring approval to change goals. Consider that everytime they run again for an elected office, someone will bring it up. Give the President the flexibility, but they must remember that there are always consequences. Likewise, if they prove to be too inflexible ...
Point 2 - That would also work, especially with note above. Oohhhh yeahhhhh, that was a good pipe....

Veera - Yup. I deal with large projects at work, where clearly defined processes are a must for certain things. It's always a pain to deal with. And yes, I do write them, unfortunately. I'd like to get a "official" sponsor for this (ie - elected official) to help push this through, or any other approach to solving this issue. Personally, I would like to have two different proposals to put to a poll next Monday. That gives almost a week for discussion, but puts an end-point where a decision must be made.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Veera Anlai]

Sigh... I'm a governor. I should try for a position in the Executive department next time ;-)

 

[Octavian X]

An intesting proposal. I will offer what I can in legal notes.
1. The Military Leader retains control of combat units.
2. Any new office would likely need to be created under the powers of the President and the Senate. It could work if the leaders of this office were an executive official, like the President, VP, or councilmember, and a person chosen by the Senate.

That in mind, it may work. I still need to read it over a few more times...

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Veera Anlai
Actually, I rather like this proposal. The combination of a Domestic and National work force could provide the best of both worlds... As long as we have that cooperation :-D
The largest difficulty will be getting this passed into law. Our nation has a terrible track record for passing new legislation.

While proposals such as this can be written into law that is not a necessary thing to do in order to get an agreed upon plan up and running. Note, I'm not saying I agree to this particular plan or not, just trying to point out that we do not need rules for every little thing. The more rules we have the easier they are to break and we all know what that means.

The trouble with passing new legislation is that our CoL and CoS all are concerned mainly with the division of powers among the various offices and that should be difficult to change once it is set. The original intent of the CoS was to have a listing of approved plans like the national parks thing. Unfortunately, the CoL and CoS we adopted were nothing along the lines of the original idea.

As for this proposal, I'm leery of putting governors in charge of defensive forces but it could make for an interesting demogame twist. I think this would be much more workable in PTW where we could name our units. Anyone know if it is possible to switch over to PTW using our demogame save file?

 

[Octavian X]

I was gonna test that. Donsig, would you like to help me in such a test? I'll create a game with vanilla 1.29f, open it in PTW, rename a unit, and reopen with Vanilla...

EDIT: Results negative. Test failed. Ah well.

 

[disorganizer]

the idea would propably be: switch the demogame to ptw instead of civ3 ;-)

like we agreed on switching to 1.29f (we could treat ptw like a patch)

 

[Cheetah]

dont we have to start over again for that?

 

[Shaitan]

PTW is different from a patch. For a patch all you have to do is download it. You have to purchase PTW. Though many people have done so, the majority have not. Could be a good topic for an info poll, though. See what percentage of demogame players have PTW.