A little ideea for religions ...

[Mîtiu Ioan]

My ( little ) suggestion - later religion to give additional benefits.
For example :
- christianity may give +1 health ( charity help in treating disease );
- confucianism may give +1 public order ( happines ) in larger cities;
- taoism may give a small science benefit in cities where is spread;
- judaism may give a small increase in money per/turn ( or somekind of interest rate );
- islam may give +1 exp. point for military units and so on.

I know that this may be somehow "political dangerous", but also I feel that this may increase a lot gameplay.

Regards,

P.S. : Excuse me my bad english ...
P.S.S. : Sorry if this ideea was exprimed already.

 

[Ratsock]

I dont think there's going to be many people happy about these suggesions. Certainly there has been a cry for something unique about each religion... but these suggestions are definitely not it..... they're likely to cause some...err... volatility...

 

[Half Fast]

Not that these bonuses don't make some sense,or that they wouldn't contribute to gameplay, but I still think they could be slightly offensive. I'm not offended that Confucians are happier than Christians in the game, but some people could be. Jews and Muslims wouldn't like how Christians are nicer to eachother. I'm not sure how Taoism makes people smarter, but that could make everyone else upset that their intelligence is belittled. The inerest rate for Jews may be historically accurate but I don't know what a Jew might think of it. These aren't things I would offended by, Im only guessing how some people might take it.
Maybe we could think of bonuses that didn't touch on personal traits like kindness, intelligence, and how miserable one is. Maybe a city captured by a Mulim civ wouldn't flip, or if Mormans were in the game, they would grow faster. Christians might build religious buildings faster.
Any changes to religion in the game would probably be best in a mod, and whoever is offended doesn't have to download it.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Not that these bonuses don't make some sense,or that they wouldn't contribute to gameplay

Debatable. Usually - if you get a religion later this mean that you was focused on something else and seems normal for me that if you found a religion ( and ONLY if you found it ) to get some bonuses to help you in that direction ...

And anyway - that bonuses could be randomized without problems for my point of view ...
But probably still will be offensive somewhat ...

Regards

 

[Kojong2004]

I would like to see religions more representative for this game...afterall, it is a game about civilizations (rise and fall). On this note then, how about giving players the choice of starting with either Mysticism or Shaminism. Mysticism leads to: Buddhism, Judaism, Zorastranism, Monotheism, Christianity and Islam. Shaminism leads to Hinduism, Bonism, Taoism, Confusianism, Shintoism...acknowleding that Japan is predominatly either Shinto or Buddhist with a current population of 160million. One may argue that all settlers start with Animism that leads to either Mysticism and/or Shaminism (and you would be correct to make this arguement).

thanks

Je Han

 

[Master Lexx]

Different religion = very bad idea. The game makes a good job showing us that all religions are equal, I hope nobody will change this!

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Abumouse has come up with a good system and combines food resources to religions that have those restrictions etc. IRL, quite creative actually. If you always keep in mind that this "IS" a game and be respectful in your suggestions, no one should get offended.

Sid has given you the "choice" to change MANY aspects of the game to fit many different taste, skill levels etc.. Keep in mind changes to religions in this game like any other changes should be made with gameplay balance and long term enjoyment in mind.

So I think unless a person is intentionally going out of his way to offend, everyone needs to give them the benefit of the doubt that they "ARE" just trying to add suggestions to enhance diversity of gameplay.

 

[Pragmatic]

There's a "Real Religions" mod in the Customization forums. What it does is alter what each religion gives you. (For instance, why would Muslims get a benefit from eating pork, when it is forbidden?) The author of the mod went into some detail about the religions. I think they replaced a few, though...

Edit: Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585 (corrected link to original Realistic Religions mod)

 

[Ktulu]

I still think the best way to go is to be able to choose the traits of your religeon when you found it. In this way you could have your own unique religeon and the system could be similar(although less impactful) to the civic system, where if you choose one trait there is a tradeoff in another area.

I don't know what the traits would be, but maybe they could be based on different areas such as military, growth, commerce, production, culture...

It may be difficult to achieve game balance, but I still think it's better than the current generic religeons or the alternative of assigning stereotypes to each religeon.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

I still think the best way to go is to be able to choose the traits of your religeon when you found it. In this way you could have your own unique religeon and the system could be similar(although less impactful) to the civic system, where if you choose one trait there is a tradeoff in another area.

I don't know what the traits would be, but maybe they could be based on different areas such as military, growth, commerce, production, culture...

It may be difficult to achieve game balance, but I still think it's better than the current generic religeons or the alternative of assigning stereotypes to each religeon.

Best idea I think I have seen thus far. Kind of how AC use to let you pick a certain number of traits for your CIV.

 

[mentat_emre]

Different religion = very bad idea. The game makes a good job showing us that all religions are equal, I hope nobody will change this!

I agree. Present "religion" thing is also debatable for agricultural worker actions. For example jewish and muslim people do not eat pig, also some eastern religions forbid to eat meat at all and Civ4 worker improvement on these special food terrain gives +1 health for all religions. I don't see any fundamental thought about this event until now but further changing on religion status could be dangerous for firaxis. But it could be in a mod, people who want to play like that play.

 

[surfacevariable]

I agree with the general idea to make each religion individual.
I understand that making default religion may hurt sensibilities
I propose that religion should be built and customized by the civilizations, like a 'super wonder' during all the game


Could be something like this:

-Obelisc can create great prophet

-Great prophet can create one religion (give it any name you want)

-With tech, you may add special profil to your religion:
for example a monotheism or polytheism or meditation trait, with each one with a bonus (meditation a science bonus, polytheism a hapiness bounus monotheism a military bonus, or anything you want) and malus
then for each trait other possibilities like universal (avaliable to other civs ie catholicism, bouddhism) or reserved (not avaliable to other ie judaism); a pacifist or agressive trait; and so on.

-Folowing great prophets may allow to build special building for religion, but you would have to make an effort to complete it (like to use hammer, or send missionary, conquest city, and I don't know what)


You could make any religion you want, but if you make too much, you'll developp none.

But only one fully developed religion that not match a situation is a disadventage (like a war dedicated in time of peace)

I've no more time to develop, but had anyone any comments on the general idea?

Surfacevariable (what a name is that?)

 

[bowervt]

I think Ktulu has the right idea: just allow the founder of the religion choose which direction it will go. Have some real world traits but not tied to a particular religion. This way you can customize and be politically correct.

Also, I agree with Kojong2004. There should be different paths to different religions. Has anyone realized how nations that start with "Mysticism" have a distinct advantage over ones that don't? If you like to found religions but don't choose a nation with mysticism, you are alread a step behind. Maybe giving multiple paths is the right answer...besides, I thought Civ4 was build around multiple tech tree paths.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

I think Ktulu has the right idea: just allow the founder of the religion choose which direction it will go. Have some real world traits but not tied to a particular religion. This way you can customize and be politically correct.

Yeap - this is probably the best option.

Regards all !

 

[A Silly Goose]

I like that whole "customize your founded religion" thing, myself. You should even get to name the religion whatever you want.

I see the approach Firaxis took of trying to use single real religions to represent entire groups of similar faiths as pretty inherently flawed--the most obvious reason being that you end up unable to give the religions any real impact on gameplay because of the ever-present risk of offending someone.
However, even if they did ignore that risk, you'd still end up with severe limitations in what could be accomplished gameplay-wise because you're not going to make Judaism a hard-coded military-minded faith--which in turn makes it useless to Montezuma, who'll thus never be likely to adopt the faith as his state religion. Thus, you end up with a religiously repetitive AI, and that's just one facet of the problem.
Additionally, as it is, the only real reason to not join a foreign AI's state religion (and thus keep them happy) is a simple matter of how many cities have said religion--which of course is not a huge deal given the fact you can just pump out some missionaries.

If you're trying to win a cultural victory, however, and your religion is geared toward that end, you're going to be more willing to fight a war over it.

 

[Scrybe]

These are some great suggestions. I'm really disappointed that the game treats all religions the same, (History shows us that ideas have consequences.) but I see the need to not offend a huge group of potential consumers. I really like the idea of breaking religions down into components that could be mixed and matched as desired. Kind of like the way City of Heroes gives you all the pieces you need to build Spider Man or Super Man, but the player is also free to assign attributes as they please.

So if a player wants to create a war-oriented religion like the South American societies, or Islam, they are free to concoct one, tailoring it to their needs. It would also make spreading your religion different since certain societies could have fundamental problems with your belief system.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

O.k. - my final ideea ( take from this brainstorming ) is that founder of a religion or the one which build the Holy Shrine for that religion ( may be different players ... ) to choose :

- 1 small pozitive bonus;
- 1 small negative impact of that religion.

I like - if don't mind - to brainstorm a little bit about 7 possible drawbacks/advantages.
My ideas :
- some luxury to not offer happines bonus ( forbiden luxury exists in almost any religion );
- some food to not provide health ( interdictions also exist in many religions );
- small increase of GPP;
- a little faster build-up of barracks ( hmmm ... )

and so on.

Should be 7+ and 7- ... i think ...

Regards and sorry to disturb you - but I belive that this high-potential ideea of religion is somehow just half exploited in actual implementation.

 

[Brighteye]

Aren't we getting onto what they've done with the government options now? They've split government up into component attributes, and we could have the same thing. A great prophet founds a religion and you discover options for your religion which you choose at time of discovery. You get advantages for options over time: perhaps religion generates culture even without buildings, and more options give more culture as well as a specific bonus.
Thus you balance the desire to delay specialisation until after you're sure that you want to specialise your civ with the bonuses that accumulate over time for taking an option.
Options could cost something; gold, or perhaps population etc. Perhaps a military option could accumulate exp. points, giving you more every thousand years. A cultural option would give more culture over time, a science (philosophical) option would give more bonus etc.
In this way you'd want to found a religion early for the time bonuses, but if it cost money or other costs to change your religion but a new religion could choose any of the discovered options with no penalty, you might use a later prophet to found an entirely new religion simply to avoid the penalties associated with changing your religion.
Perhaps you could also have religions dying because the city they're in doesn't do enough of whatever they're focussed on. Thus old religions which aren't changed will be beaten by other civ's newer specialised religions unless the old religion is forcefully spread or a theocracy.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Well gents, its looks like Sevo took your ideas and concept to heart and made a mod. Get it here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156699

 

[balthamael]

Im pretty sure most Muslims would be offended by the + to military for Islam.Despite them being some of the greatest conquerors ever.
Good idea, though.