1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

A small step for this mod...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Faustmouse, May 26, 2014.

  1. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    True, but as I said: The reduction of Silicon (SiO2 -> Si + O2) is a VERY energy consuming process. So what generates the Power for it? I assume here that the lunar base you build before founding the city already had some panels from earth since they are quite light weighted. But we want to go BIG.

    So these are the options I had so far:

    a) You have to send at least one more supply ship that delivers solar panels. This is quite feasable since solar panels are light and generate lots of power. With that power you can make your own solar panels on the moon.

    b) Fusion is somewhere around that techwise, we have He3 and we have H2 either from electrical water splitting (power again...) or from the algae (under the right conditions, algae can produce something like 500 mL pure H2 per L culture in 3-5 days.) But a fusion generator is very high tech, sensitive and heavy. So it can't be easily constructed on the moon and transport is diffiicult. Also, it needs quite a lot energy to start working.

    c) Use biomass powerplants with plant/algae waste.

    d) Use the CO2 which expands when heated (by the sun) and can therefore drive a dynamo.

    e) Use solar satellites. You don't need much less fuel then actually send solar panels to the moons surface, and solar panels have a better Energy / weight relations due additional stuff needed for satellites.

    Thoughts?

    Actually I like a the most... I wanted to force the player to send some supply to the colony anyways.

    And good you like the overall picture, I will get in detail now :)

    Oh and I was thinking about lifestocks on the moon. But they's eat from valuable agricultural fields so they'd actually consume more food than they generate...
     
  2. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    1. I think all those choices should be used. Havving more than one method to solve a problem is a good thing.

    2. Well perhaps having bugs or fish for a protein food source might be worth it. Especially if they eat algae and you can double the algae for both livestock food and industrial use.

    3. Also if you got a bio-dome up with a working ecosystem it could both help provide air and food but also happiness for your colonists to have something from Earth.
     
  3. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    1. True. Sounds like a good plan :goodjob:

    2. Also true. This will make another good buildings for food besides the Greenhouse complex.

    3. I wanted to have an Ecosphere (-Wonder) sometimes in the game. Maybe it's better as normal building thou.
     
  4. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Here are the first of my buildings, I have to board now on my plane. As for the :hammers: costs, I based them on a gamespeed were techs take ~3 turns at this time, so they are most like not the costs the buildings will have in the XML. But you get an idea how I want them to be.

    Lunar Base:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: None
    Required Ressources: None
    Other Requirements: Any Lunar Terrain
    Costs: Autobuild
    • -1000 :gold:
    • +20 :science:



    Lunar Water Extraction Facility:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Base
    Required Ressources: None
    Other Requirements: None *
    Costs: 120 :hammers: -> If you don't have any other buildings, this should take ~ 30 turns.
    • +1 :food:

    *Maybe, at a later point, we can limit it to near the lunar poles and implent a Pipeline System building here for your colonies not near the poles. I'd like

    this, but with the screwed lantitute values for out map this won't work right now.



    Lunar Rock Quarry:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Base
    Required Ressources: None
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 20 :hammers: -> If you don't have any other buildings, this should take ~ 5 turns.
    • +5 :hammers:
    • + 200% Building construction



    Lunar Concrete Mill:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Rock Quarry AND Lunar Water Extraction Facility
    Required Ressources: None
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 140 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry, this should take ~ 5 turns.
    • +2 :hammers:
    • + 300% Building construction
    • Produces Concrete



    Lunar Glass Factory:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Rock Quarry
    Required Ressources: None
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 140 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry, this should take ~ 5 turns.
    • +1 :gold: <- Doesn't make much sense, but to give a reason to build more then one.
    • Produces Glass



    Lunar Greenhouse: (Or Hydrophonics Farm)
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Water Extraction Facility
    Required Ressources: Glass
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 280 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry, this should take ~ 10 turns.
    • +5 :food: <- This should end up for a total of 9 :food: (3 from city tile, 1 from the Lunar Water Extraction Facility and 5 here) to support 3 Pop.



    Lunar Algae Farm:
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Greenhouse
    Required Ressources: Concrete (Glass is covered with the Greenhouse)
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 330 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry and Concrete Mill, this should take ~ 5 turns.
    • +3 :food:
    • Produces Algae



    Lunar Algae Lab:
    Required Tech: Lunar Manufacturing
    Required Buildings: Lunar Quarry
    Required Ressources: Concrete AND Algae AND Glass AND Chemicals*
    Other Requirements: None
    Costs: 660 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry and Concrete Mill, this should take ~ 10 turns.
    • -30 :gold:
    • Produces Hydrogen
    • Produces Drugs

    *These need to be transported to the Moon once.



    Lunar Metal Extraction Facility: (There will be seperate ones for Aluminium, Iron, Titanium and to a lesser extend Magnesium and Manganese)
    Required Tech: Lunar Colonization
    Required Buildings: Lunar Quarry AND Solar Panels*
    Required Ressources: Concrete
    Other Requirements: MAYBE the respective ore in vicinity. While not that realistic, it definetly adds more to gameplay.
    Costs: 660 :hammers: -> With the Rock Quarry and Concrete Mill, this should take ~ 10 turns.
    • + 2 :hammers:
    • Produces Steel Ingots / Aluminium Ingots / Titanium (Ingots?) AND Manganese AND Magnesium

    *This is a building that can only be construced by a Supply Ship OR with Silicon resource.
     
  5. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    @Faustmouse

    According to ls612's cost list your prices are WAY too low.

    X88 = 2150
    X89 = 2300
    X90 = 2450
    X91 = 2650
    X92 = 3000
    X93 = 3200
    X94 = 3400
    X95 = 3400
    X96 = 3700
    X97 = 3950
    X98 = 4250
    X99 = 4550
    X100 = 4850

    So if we were to follow this then ...

    - Lunar Base = N/A
    - Lunar Water Extraction Facility = 4550
    - Lunar Glass Factory = 4550
    - Lunar Greenhouse = 4550
    - Lunar Algae Farm = 4550
    - Lunar Algae Lab = 4850
    - Lunar Metal Extraction Facility = 4550

    So weather or not you want to make them more or less than each other I think you should keep them around he target pricing.

    It should probably be like ...

    • -? :gold:
    • +1 :health:
    • -5 Flammability

    In fact all of these should cost a LOT for maintenance of each part. Unlike on Earth if it breaks people could be dead. Thus I am not sure how much -:gold: these should all have.

    You realize that's HUGE? Here is some comparison ...

    - Carpenter's Workshop = +10% Building Construction
    - Pulley Wheel = +10% Building Construction
    - Treadmill Crane = +15% Building Construction
    - Steam Crane = +20% Building Construction
    - Construction Firm = +20% Building Construction
    - Modern Crane = +30% Building Construction
    - Hi-Tech Crane = +40% Building Construction

    Even the Hi-Tech Crane that comes in the late Trans-Human Era is only +40%.

    I am not sure about this. You should look at the other similar buildings we already have such as the Biopolymer Factory. Also when you say Drugs what is it making? Do you mean Pharmaceuticals? Because we have that as a resource.

    However on an off topic it and water bottles and wax seem to be missing their text.

    This should make some money too like the Earth one. Unless you think the maintenance cost would cancel out the profit.

    These all should be producing some :yuck: and Flammability. Not so sure about Air or Water Pollution since the Moon as no Atmosphere. But the risk of fire and getting sick or injured on the job should be something the factories still have.
     
  6. Rwn

    Rwn King

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    An possible way to do things could be to actually have buildings that cost x5 compared to similar things you can build on Earth to illustrate the difficulty to build anything on the Moon. Then, with some engineering, you slowly start to develop some infrastructure to build efficiently there.
     
  7. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Damnn after spending 15 min writing an answer the internet here kicked me out and its gone ...

    In short: No, they are ok in price. your colony has an output of max 5 :hammers: per turn when founded. You really want to spend 3000/5 turns to build your first building? I dont. That is also the reason why the quarry and concrete mill have so much building modifier. Befiore them you dont have anything to build buildings with. but there is plenty of moon rocks, you just have to take (and process them). I really want to try this in game to see if it works fine. ls216 table is based on the stage at which your earth cities are, they have nothing to do with lunar cities.


    I also forgot about the :yuck:. WIll add this. Waterbottles ok, but do we need wax on the moon?

    And I vision the colony as something struggling for life, they dont want to make profit with their algae.

    Id post the 2nd set as well, but my laptop cant connect to the internet here :(
     
  8. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    No no, I was saying Pharmaceuticals, Water Bottles and Wax resources seem to have lost their text files when they were moved to the core. This bug needs to be fixed and has nothing to do with Lunar stuff. I just noticed it when looking up Pharmaceuticals resource.

    EDIT
    : I found backups of the text files and added them to the SVN.
     
  9. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,549
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Sorry about those text files. Some had the wrong name and those I caught. There were a lot of files.
     
  10. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    Well someone should combine all the resource text into one file. I thought that was going to happen before it was going to be merged into the core.
     
  11. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    @Faustmouse

    I added Lunar Bases tech to the SVN and added most of the chances however I still think Lunar Colonization should require AES so I kept that as a tech requirement. Which ment It did not have to move and I did not ave to chnage Lunar Manufacturing. Likewise I did not think Jovian Exploration needed AES tech since its just unmanned probes.
     
  12. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Thanks for adding the tech. We'll have to see if Colonization and Manufacturing come to close to each other or not. Maybe AES can be moved back then, I don't know.
     
  13. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    FYI the Colony Extraction Facility was meant as the mine/quarry replacement for off-planet terrain. (basically it handles all lunar & martian resource collection.) This is your separate mine.
     
  14. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    Space Stations = X88
    Lunar Exploration = X88
    Lunar Bases = X89
    Space Tourism = X90
    Planetary Exploration = X90
    Solar Propulsion = X91
    Exoplanets Discovery = X93
    Commercial Space Flight = X94
    Asteroid Belt Probes = X96
    Asteroid Mining = X97
    Jovian Exploration = X97
    Advanced Environmental Systems = X98
    Lunar Colonization = X99
    Lunar Manufacturing = X100
    Lunar Tourism = X101
    Magnetic Sails = X102
    Orbital Flight = X106
    Lunar Trade = X107
     
  15. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    For me, the Gap between Lunar Bases and Colony is a bit big with a "deltaX" of 10.
    I will have a look at this later. And for the buildings, I will just implent them and let you play it, then can have a look at it in game.
     
  16. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,816
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I think it's a long long way from a base to a colony. Two examples - Antarctica and the orbital space station (originally Mir iirc). We have had bases in those two 'spheres' for decades, without being any closer to a colony.
     
  17. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Yeah that is true... But both of them don't provide any benefits when you have a colony there, they are just for research.
    Do you think that once you have a colony somewhere, manufacturing and tourism will occour shortly after that?
     
  18. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,816
    Location:
    Brisbane
    We are almost up to space tourism already, and similar with Antarctica, so I think some tourism could come before colonization. But that is very small scale. Once a colony is up and running, assuming their training wasn't prohibitively arduous, tourism on a small scale could follow quite soon. Tourism on the scale of even one modern 5-star hotel is going to need a colony population of at least 5000ish - maybe slightly less if they are there purely to 'service' tourists, but probably more in practice.

    Manufacturing (or on the moon more likely mining/prospecting but same diff) might very well be the reason that a colony finally gets built. So I think it is very likely to follow close after colonization.

    To go live in a new colony is a big decision. All the (recentish) ones I can think of started as prisons, havens from persecution, or bases for exploitation of uniquely lucrative resources eg. gold, slaves, pirate booty:lol: etc.
     
  19. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    good observations here... So the current tech path seems to be right.

    When I sorted out the units I need, could you program them then?
     
  20. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,816
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Absolutely!:goodjob:
     

Share This Page