A small trick to keep AI happy

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by Ribannah
The point is that you are not helping them to play a better game.

I think another point is that you're being arrogant and obnoxious. If you don't like this tactic, fine, don't use it. But no one appointed you the judge of what is appropriate and what isn't.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by Ribannah


The point is that you are not helping them to play a better game.
I don't care what you do in your own games, but please do not present an exploit as a strategy. If you want to teach, teach right.

Just understanding how a certain aspect of the game works will ever help to improve.

What's an exploit and what not should be decided on everyone's own.
E.g. some people even use reloading as strategy, some call it a lame exploit.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Grille Just understanding how a certain aspect of the game works will ever help to improve.

Agreed.

What's an exploit and what not should be decided on everyone's own.

Hmm, I'm not too happy with that thought. I think a good definition of what an exploit is should be possible. Not easy, but possible. Whether you use it or not still remains your own choice.

E.g. some people even use reloading as strategy, some call it a lame exploit.

The latter I'd say, if you use it to fool yourself!
But it can also be a learning tool, provided that you're aware of what you are doing. The best use is probably for the opening stage but even then it is hard to ignore the knowledge you have of the map etc. Later on the Random Number Generator clouds everything.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

This is not an exploit, it's a game deficiency, like many of the other game deficiencies. If you sell an item of for under the market value or give an item to an AI player they should be happier with you (or think your a fool at least ). Having to give them money so they can pay the fair price for an item (tech, ROP, peace,...) just gets around a little programming laziness and rewards you for your diligence. IMO.

 

[civ_steve]

I think people use the word 'exploit' too often. Just because I wouldn't play a certain way doesn't make that way an exploit, it's just different. It's not surprising that taking the same steps in 2 different orders results in two different outcomes: the same is true in real life! If the sequence taken falls within the game mechanics, it should receive the benefit of the doubt unless a player receives a demonstrably unfair advantage. (Several examples of these have been documented elsewhere.)

Civ3 is a very complicated game, and 95% of what I've learned about it has come from these forums. I greatly appreciate the players' sharing of these types of experience and insight, because I may or may not (probably not) figure them out myself. Civ3 also rewards the micro-manager, the stickler for details, and I'd consider this 'trick' another example of this.

 

[southstar]

It's a good trick. But sometimes even you give the AI gift, they still pay a small amout of money because of depreciation of tech. So you will lose money.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by southstar
It's a good trick. But sometimes even you give the AI gift, they still pay a small amout of money because of depreciation of tech. So you will lose money.

In that case, don't give them more money than what you can take back. If you not sure about the real value of the tech, use the Tech calculator (the link is in Cartouche Bee 's sig, two posts above).

 

[Saturno]

I've tryed to use this once and dind't worked... The ai got my gift and become happy but when I did the proposal of the techs + the amount of money i've gived they did not acept...

What i did wrong?

sorry my bad english lol

 

[RFHolloway]

you just gave them too much money!

Give them money in stages - and check that they will still trade it all back to you. Then the most that you can lose is the amount that you just gave them.

 

[Saturno]

Is this the only way to know how many money i must give them?

 

[RFHolloway]

No various calculators will give you what a tech is worth in trade, but often I will forget one of the factors, so I just use - well I can afford to lose 50G so I will give them that and see if they will give it all back to me.

 

[Saturno]

Ok... Thanks RFHolloway!

 

[absolut_nonsens]

Why to keep AI Happy? What are you proposing Qitai, is to offer hard discovered technology almost for free. If you'd play at the fifth level you'll never win this way! Technology is one of the most important advantages! Better play chess with AI and make good alliances strategies than throwing out your advantage. If you have the interest to maintain good relations with one or more of AI players, make commerce with them. Trade with them luxuries, resources, technology, rights of passage, mutual protection pact, embargos or even military alliances and you'll have peace with them. Never give technology for free! And when there is a war going on try to balance the power between the teams engaged, except you are the strongest. A well balanced power system between the AI players, gives you the opportunity to become the strongest and ultimately the winner.

 

[EMan]

Welcome to the CFC Forum, absolut_nonsens.

Why to keep AI Happy? What are you proposing Qitai, is to offer hard discovered technology almost for free. If you'd play at the fifth level you'll never win this way!

I'm not sure Qitai would want to play DOWN to the 5th Level!....He has 2 Golds + 1 Silver in the GOTM! (viz. Has Beaten ALL the best CFC Civ Players in the World!)

Back to the Subject at hand, I think you are missing the point ............You keep the Ai Happy with YOU so that you can more easily Trade/MA/ROP etc. in the future.

First, you are in a position where you WANT to trade with the Ai and it's just a matter of getting as MUCH as you can from them.........Sooooo, if you give them some money and then get it ALL back AND an increase in ATTITUDE from them towards you when you trade, Why Not do it?

 

[Dragonlord]

Just reread this thread - I've been using Qitai's trick regularly when I need to keep the AI happy - that is, until I'm ready to knife them...

I really don't understand Ribannah's contention that this is supposed to be an exploit and hinders noobs from learning good strategy..

Good diplomacy is obviously a must at higher levels - you can't possibly be at war with everyone all the time at Emperor or higher and have a prayer of winning. Thus, it's an integral part of strategy!

Giving a tech for less than the market value should result in an attitude bonus from the AI. Since the programming doesn't give it, Qitai's trick just rectifies an imbalance, doesn't create a new one, IMO.

Another matter is the peaking of the attitude bonus at 100 gp regardless of era - this is an obvious bug that should be rectified, it's totally illogical!
Such a limit shouldn't be hardcoded but variable by era, or maybe even by turn - or additionally by difficulty level.

Personally, I use this gambit only in the ancient age, where 100 gp is still a lot of money. From the Middle Ages on I'm usually strong enough I don't need it anyway, so I don't feel I'm exploiting the 100gp-bug.

 

[Longasc]

I give them gold, then i get back my gold by selling my tech for their gold plus the gold I gave them... and they got even polite or gracious before.

I think the FLAW is that the other Civ should be already more polite towards you if you sell them the tech stuff for a low amount of gold.

This extra step is kind of an exploit, but I use it. I would however like it the way I described the issue above -> they should be gracious for a cheap tech IMO, without such little tricks.

I think it is an exploit, but I use it from time to time. Some people use palace jumping which I consider an exploit, but well - it is a single player game, all what they want to do is THEIR decision. I have no problems cheating an AI.