A strange promotion-based counter to Praetorians

[Dairuka]

I won't turn this into a huge strategy article. However, I've noticed something kind of... amusing when I was facing off against somebody playing the Roman's in Multiplayered earlier this morning.

Of course he was pissed off at me - I was playing as the Incans, and he didn't know how to properly counter my rush of Quecha's, so I had him pinned back in his capital after taking out his two satellite cities.

So, he eventually got lucky, killed off my meager fleet {I had three other players to deal with too} of Quecha's with his fleet of warriors. He connected the Iron one tile south of his city and started pumping out Praetorians.

Before I knew it, he had 6 Praetorians and 1 catapult all charging directly for my capital which was also the closest city to his borders. He knew that my Capital was my main money source, so he wanted to cripple me as revenge for screwing him so early on in the game.

Now, I only had one Axeman defending, and my iron was pillaged by another player in the game who also happened to be angry with me. Therefore, I had no extra Axemen or Crossbowmen.

Luckily I had Ivory connected, and I started shooting out War Elephants. Because I had a Barracks and Theocracy up, he had two free promotions upon creation.

Of course I gave Mr. Elephant, Shock {+25% against Melee Units}, and Combat 2. His Praetorians all had Combat 1, City Raider 1, and City Raider 2.

Odds were something like 10.2 vs 7.4. {God I wish I had a screenshot, cause with Axemen and Crossbowmen I'm usually hovering around even odds...}

That Elephant killed off 2 Praetorian's while he tried to beeline past the elephant for the capital, and crippled a 3rd praetorian when the elephant was finally put in defense due to being so badly damaged.

Three Elephants later, his capital was taken because the genius didn't bother to make any archers, spearmen, pikemen or longbowmen to defend... The guy was a very good player too; didn't expect such a mistake.

I guess this thread can also be used as a reminder - remember to combine your armies with different type units. Even if you use Praetorians.

 

[DaveMcW]

His Praetorians all had Combat 1, City Raider 1, and City Raider 2.

Giving ALL your units the same promotions is a really bad idea. With a couple combat 2 Praetorians he could have blocked or counterattacked your elephant.

 

[Dairuka]

His best chance to counter it would be Combat 2, and Formation {+25% against Horses}

In which case, we would have had even odds.

This is why when I'm sending a Rush-Stack, that I always keep 3-4 of my units with at least 1 promotion waiting to be used up. That way they can be more effective counters in a pinch.

It also adds to the point, one should always combine their armies... Promotions too.

 

[Simon Appleton]

Interesting - I really like the promotions system and the way it gives a chance for outclassed units to survive. I had a nightmare SP game without oil the other day and giving infantry (later marines) the AT promotion was a godsend. Similarly, I had to use the pinch promotion to cope with mech infantry. The promotions add an extra layer of strategy to the combat and also makes you care more about your boys.

 

[Jarrod32]

I did the same thing with the Romans as my neighbor...gave my war elephants the 'shock' promotion to help against the dreaded Praets. As part of a combined force, they helped me eliminate the Romans (I had them boxed in, and they had five cities).

 

[Gufnork]

You should always keep a few units to defend your stack, either the counter to your main units counter or units with different promotions. I prefer having counters to your main units counter, since that allows me to get Medic upgrade on one of them.

A crossbowman with Combat I+Shock (neither horsemen nor archers gain Combat I upgrade from Aggressive, so two promotions means this) against those Praets would get 6.6 vs 5.0, which gives a ratio of 1.32 (~77% chance). A War Elephant gets 8.8 vs 7.0 which gives a ratio of 1.25 (~75% chance). So a Crossbowman is still better. For you to get ~10.2 vs. ~7.4 you need Combat III+Shock on your War Elephants (8*1.3=10.4). So Crossbowmen are still better in this situation, but not by much.

Had he taken Combat II+Formation on one of his units (Caesar isn't aggressive so his fresh units should only have two upgrades this early though) your odds would have been ~32%. If you had crossbowmen (and he had Combat II+Cover), your odds would have been ~68%. Now the difference is suddenly huge.

 

[Astax]

Last guy I told this to dismissed it, so I dismissed him as a newbie. Yes Elephant is a good counter to Roman swordsman, precisely as you have put it with those promotions. Of course the guy was borderline newbie, but then agian a spearman wont really stop a shock elephant all that well :/ At best its a match after combats 2 and the anti cavalary update, altough it being a cheaper unit to make, you might play it off with numbers. What you need to stop the elephant is city garisoned Longbowmen.

Of coruse elephants are totally nerfed after engeneering, and a woodsman pikeman can pick them off if you dont move it in a good stack.

 

[segawang]

If everything was just like OP described, I don't think those praetorians would be level 4 units at all. They are at best with Combat I and City Raid I. Even this could be overestimated. If he had problem with early Quecha 0harrassment, and even two of his early cities had been taken, he would definitely be very backward in technology. I seriously doubt if they had theology to adopt theocracy when producing those praerotians.

Also, the war elephants are mounted units, who do not receive the Combat I bonus for Aggressive (only melee and gunpowder units receive a free promotion of Combat I).

 

[Padmewan]

What I find amusing about this story is the historical parallel to Hannibal crossing the Pyrennes with elephants to attack the Roman legions unprepared. Makes me look forward to a C3C "Rise of Rome" scenario...