Yeah. It's because the point of cuirs is to get there quickly with a small number of cities (under 10) and then take more cities quickly. Earlier warring often slows down your tech but helps you get more cities. Especially if your tech pace is extremely slow (it has been here) cuirs will be late and you might face a lot of resistance. On the other hand chilling and teching further with 15 cities will guarantee you a very strong position later.
Frustrated with immortal
- Thread starter jorissimo
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That makes sense. I still have some difficulty deciding on a macro strategy, but these are some good pointers.
Edit: I meant the above in a general sense. Regarding this game, I now have a pretty clear idea of what to do.
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a pen-dragon
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It is also useful to consider how much additional cities can contribute to the econ, and IMO on standard size and before state property expanding beyond about 20 cities takes lots of time to pay back economically. So if you can forsee that the game will not end on cuirs going for them could actually slow you down.
Good point. Also because there appear to be multiple continents here (it's a Fractal) and so intercontinental expansion pre-SP is ruled out. And if you can tech that far you might as well get more advanced units than cuirs.
Not sure if I agree with that. More mature cities contribute immediately very well, unless you make the mistake of building buildings in them. Just build wealth/failgold.
, so it would seem economics provides bigger immediate boost to Interesting! But don't you think GLH plays a role here (even if most trade is domestic?)screenshots from Monty-game with and without state property
Spoiler :
Hmm no? It just gives more trade routes no matter what civic (well, except mercantilism, but I never was in that). edit: and even in merc it gives more trade routes
just not foreign.
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pigswill
fly (one day)
What's the hammer difference between FM and SP?
Good question and I now realized some cities were building
/
which in a way skews the results and in a way doesn't. It's what I wanted to build in those cities anyway.SP was +82
+28
, a massive massive benefit. +55-94 compared to FM. So yes SP is insanely good, but we already knew that. 
a pen-dragon
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Good point, any production does immediately contribute, maybe I should go a bit more in-depth and possibly revise that number, but not now.
This observation will very much depend on the quality of those cities.
The problem is that number of cities maintenance scales very fast (I believe exponentially), thus at some point you will need every bit of gold you can muster and distance maintenence is the only real screw to turn beyond just matureing cities.
So the same general statement is true with state property, but the city limit will be higher.
The exception being, of course, the strike economy (not recommended by me, it just breaks the game).
Snowbird
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Non distance part has a cap. 8 gold per turn per city. In a faraway city one would want courthouse anyway. So 4gp per city is not a thing to cry about.
sylvanllewelyn
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I am also fustrated with immortal. I just died horribly. Without knowing the map beforehand, I am not sure what would have worked?
I attached a worldbuilder file and an original (no modifications) save file.
Map spoiler
I attached a worldbuilder file and an original (no modifications) save file.
Map spoiler
Spoiler :
a pen-dragon
Warlord
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No metals next to a crazy warmonger is always difficult.
To prevent this kind of thing from happening, use a UI mod, like BUFFY, which would show you on the leaderboard when an AI is plotting, giving you time to prepare. In this case Shaka was probably plotting for ~10 turns, allowing you ample time to build a few archers and walls in thessalonica. IMO this is one of the rare cases where walls are actually a useful build.
A city with walls defended with enough archers can then hold against anything pre-cats. Surely that is not optimal, but the game is not lost. If you can kill the first attack without too many losses they will frequently talk about peace fast, give them what they want, if they want a poor city, sometimes even that is worth it.
As an emergency measure you could still one-pop whip archers.
Btw, to try to prevent such wars, you can always try to better your relations by gifting them a (if possible badly placed) city, giving you +5 relations (+4 fair trade +1 liberation) and getting most leaders to pleased.
All that said, sometimes these crazy AI attack between turn 40 and 50, and that can be a direct game over without copper.
Seeing that you knew all along Shaka was your neighbour and that you do not have copper, you should have scouted the west to try to find (and grab) copper. There is rarely copper in the jungle (maybe some map-scripts prohibit it?).
To prevent this kind of thing from happening, use a UI mod, like BUFFY, which would show you on the leaderboard when an AI is plotting, giving you time to prepare. In this case Shaka was probably plotting for ~10 turns, allowing you ample time to build a few archers and walls in thessalonica. IMO this is one of the rare cases where walls are actually a useful build.
A city with walls defended with enough archers can then hold against anything pre-cats. Surely that is not optimal, but the game is not lost. If you can kill the first attack without too many losses they will frequently talk about peace fast, give them what they want, if they want a poor city, sometimes even that is worth it.
As an emergency measure you could still one-pop whip archers.
Btw, to try to prevent such wars, you can always try to better your relations by gifting them a (if possible badly placed) city, giving you +5 relations (+4 fair trade +1 liberation) and getting most leaders to pleased.
All that said, sometimes these crazy AI attack between turn 40 and 50, and that can be a direct game over without copper.
Seeing that you knew all along Shaka was your neighbour and that you do not have copper, you should have scouted the west to try to find (and grab) copper. There is rarely copper in the jungle (maybe some map-scripts prohibit it?).
Get those barbarians off my continent!sylvanllewelyn
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