Frustrated with immortal

[sampsa]

Sure and absolutely no offence taken, I think I know you well enough to understand our style of interaction and I know I can learn a lot from you! And probably my play was weaker in this game than I thought when I wrote the reply to BiC.

I don't try to argue against early honestly, but I just love the fast expansion, especially below deity.

 

[jorissimo]

I finally finished the Washington game. 1880 Dom. My first non-fin win on Immortal with virtually no outside help. Ended up being less peaceful than I had planned because circumstances called for a more aggressive approach. First, AP reassigned Saint Pete, which had been under my control for over 1000 years, to Cathy. That led me to go down the cuirs route, libbing MT. I waged a short and surgical war with 20-something cuirs, just enough to quickly take her 4 cities and resist any counter attacks from her master Wang. So far so good. But then, when I discovered Sci Meth, I realized I didn't have a single source of oil in my 19-city empire. I didn't feel comfortable going to space without any oil, so I went cavs and cannons and took out Wang (I know, very fitting to play as America and go to war over oil). After that, I could have gone to space but it seemed like Pacal could win culture faster. So I went for tanks and fighters/bombers to take him out. After that, I had about 50 tanks sitting around and would it be easy to pump out a few boats and ship everything over to chronically backward, 13-city Genghis on the other continent? Btw, at this point I realized I could have won diplo if I had just converted 1 of Qin's and 1 of Genghis' cities to Hindu, but Genghis had the brilliant idea of attacking me with a bunch of backward mini-stacks and then wouldn't open borders with me for the longest time. So I had to conquer him. I went in with 50 tanks, first attacking his war vassal Qin who had only 3 cities, but also had infantry and destroyers. I sustained heavy losses taking a hyper-cultured Genghis-owned Beijing full of wonders, defended by Chinese infantry and a bajillion Mongol cavalry and lost about half my tank force. I did have air support but had used it for taking Shanghai on the same turn and got impatient The invasion seemed to be on shaky ground but my production was so overwhelming that I managed to break through, especially after I built airports everywhere and started airlifting on a massive scale. I never saw a Mongol infantry and hit the domination limit before he was willing to capitulate. All in all a fun and very eventful game. Btw, if you're wondering about the freakishly long game time, it's because I had a scooter accident in which I broke my right arm and right leg, and played this out with only my left hand.

 

[jorissimo]

If you think you're having a bad day, consider what happened to me: on the turn I attacked my neighbor with an engineering attack in the 700s, HC wins the AP vote and with that, the game. Is there any highly illegal way to worldbuilder this out or edit the save to disable diplomatic victory? This is worse than bad RNG, this is a gameplay flaw.

Spoiler :

 

[a pen-dragon]

AFAIK there currently there is no way to edit save-files, although a tool to do so is in development, in this thread.

As for removing it via WB, I think the least impactful way would be to remove the AP wonder, or remove the religion from a civ that does not have it as state religion, as a diplo vote can only be called when all civs have that religion.

 

[jorissimo]

AFAIK there currently there is no way to edit save-files, although a tool to do so is in development, in this thread.

As for removing it via WB, I think the least impactful way would be to remove the AP wonder, or remove the religion from a civ that does not have it as state religion, as a diplo vote can only be called when all civs have that religion.

I'm thinking of WB-ing 3 desert islands with 3 of my cities surrounded by peaks so that Buddhism can never spread there and then spinning it off as a colony. That way no one would benefit or be prejudiced and HC can keep the AP. But I'm seriously considering playing without the AP from now on, it's kinda like random events in the way it's punitive and completely outside the player's control.

 

[pigswill]

A sneaky AP win can be a cheap victory, likewise a sneaky AP defeat is a cheap defeat. Now you've learned it can happen to you then maybe in future you'll plan to avoid it. Prevent religion spread (can be tricky), get a majority vote in AP religion, gift mass media to or simply raze AP city.

 

[skarpa]

If you think you're having a bad day, consider what happened to me: on the turn I attacked my neighbor with an engineering attack in the 700s, HC wins the AP vote and with that, the game. Is there any highly illegal way to worldbuilder this out or edit the save to disable diplomatic victory? This is worse than bad RNG, this is a gameplay flaw.

Spoiler :

View attachment 713182

Wow that looks like really bad luck tbh. I've never seen a diplo win so early but then you've played much more than me. Did he do it with just his own votes?

Spoiler :

HC has it in my game on the same map. And early on it did look like he might cheese an AP win, Musa hasn't got his religion it seems fortunately and HC has now lost control to DG. Now I've capped Musa and Toku I may be able to cheese a win that way.

Good map btw. Tough situation despite all that starting gold.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I like to open the worldbuilder file in notepad and edit the game settings.

Apostolic Palace victory is fair game unless it's continents, when it can be actual instant defeat one turn after the religion spreads to one of your cities.

 

[jorissimo]

Wow that looks like really bad luck tbh. I've never seen a diplo win so early but then you've played much more than me. Did he do it with just his own votes?

Spoiler :

HC has it in my game on the same map. And early on it did look like he might cheese an AP win, Musa hasn't got his religion it seems fortunately and HC has now lost control to DG. Now I've capped Musa and Toku I may be able to cheese a win that way.

Good map btw. Tough situation despite all that starting gold.

Me neither! I don't remember the vote distribution, people did actually vote for him, but I think his own votes played a big part.

 

[jorissimo]

I like to open the worldbuilder file in notepad and edit the game settings.

Apostolic Palace victory is fair game unless it's continents, when it can be actual instant defeat one turn after the religion spreads to one of your cities.

But is there any other victory you've seen an AI win in the 700s? And doing so little for it? That just doesn't feel right. Victories should happen in the late game, when civs have had the chance to actually achieve something, and when you're actually paying attention to victory conditions.

 

[a pen-dragon]

Did he do it with just his own votes?

In BtS 3.19 this is not possible anymore. Originally it was, but in some patch/extension the rules were changed to make a diplomatic victory impossible when one player has sufficient votes for themselves.

Edit: at least for the UN. I am not absolutely sure for the AP.

 

[jorissimo]

In BtS 3.19 this is not possible anymore. Originally it was, but in some patch/extension the rules were changed to make a diplomatic victory impossible when one player has sufficient votes for themselves.

Edit: at least for the UN. I am not absolutely sure for the AP.

For the AP the cap is set at 70 something of the vote. Which is still way too high imho. An election like that cannot be taken seriously.