A suggestion to make Immortality less confusing

[WarKirby]

A concept that confused me when I first started plkaying FFH, is the immortality mechanics


In Erebus, there are two kinds of Immortality.

The first, is the "immortality" promotion. Coloquially known as "second chance" or "extra life" immortality.
This kind resurrects the unit at the capital when it dies, then the promotion is removed. tusly, it's only one extra chance at life. The most confusing thing here, is that this is NOT the definition of immortality


The second, "true" immortality, has no associated promotion, and is only represented as a "respawns in the civilization's capital when killed" property, of specific unit classes. The word "immortality" does not actually feature there at all, despite this being far closer to the classical definition, than the promotion (falsely, imo) bearing the namesake.


I'd like to suggest reworking the system as follows.

1. Rename the "Immortality" promotion. To something like "Second Chance", "Divine protection", or "Phoenic Down". because immortality is a blatantly false and misleading descriptor.


2. Put the "true" immortality effect, into a promotion, which should then occupy the promotion name of "Immortality". And give this promotion to immortals/skulds/eternals/bone golems, etc.

There are a few reasons why the latter would be good.
Firstly, reducing confusion. Once you learn what little picture corresponds to immortality, you can then see that on any unit, and know what you're dealing with. Rather than having to remember the myriad names of all the Immortal UUs.
Also, having the "true" immortality effect in a promotion, would make it easier to work with. It would be simple to create spells which add or remove that promotion, without having to touch python. Or you could even just open the worldbuilder when you feel like it, and put immortality on your favorite pet hero.

The main idea here though, is reducing confusion, and making things more logical.

 

[1234567890]

I agree. And there are a few special cases: Mokka's Cauldron, Mercurians Angels, Brigit, etc...

 

[Honor]

I agree with WarKirby. I was confused about the whole immortality thing when I first started playing FfH. I even learned Brigit is immortal just recently.

Name suggestion for the second chance promotion: Guardian Angel.

 

[zup]

Why not call it 'strategic retreat'? The company of troops suffers a defeat, yet some of them retreat alive. Or perhaps 'town portal'?

I guess the true immortality mechanic can be confusing for a new player. Myself, I have pretty much memorized by heart them all.

Spoiler :

Brigit, Eternal, Immortal, Korinna (red, after fanaticism), Skuld, Valkyrie, Vampire Lord

It is likely very overpowered, but maybe blood of the phoenix should make all current units true immortal? Or no, would make Brigit significantly less special. And it would need something like 100 times hammer cost.

 

[WarKirby]

Spoiler :

Brigit, Eternal, Immortal, Korinna (red, after fanaticism), Skuld, Valkyrie, Vampire Lord

I believe you forgot Abomination, the Scion immortal UU
And Bone golems. See? you haven't memorised them all.

It is likely very overpowered, but maybe blood of the phoenix should make all current units true immortal? Or no, would make Brigit significantly less special. And it would need something like 100 times hammer cost.

I think that would be extremely overpowered, probably not a good idea.

Personally, I'd rather see the Blood of the Phoenix be a buildable artifact (like the Crown of Akharien) that a unit can pick up, and they're (true) immortal while holding it.

 

[1234567890]

Personally, I'd rather see the Blood of the Phoenix be a buildable artifact (like the Crown of Akharien) that a unit can pick up, and they're (true) immortal while holding it.

Too OP. Auric Ascended with Immortal Promotion...

 

[WarKirby]

Well, the Godslayer should just have an exception

Can kill Immortal units permanantly

That would solve that issue nicely, and be fairly thematically appropriate.

but in any case, this is beyond the scope of this thread, which is just about tweaks for simplicity, not balance changes or features.

 

[Endovior]

Your entire army becoming true immortal would be insane. That's far too much power going far too many ways. Blood of the Phoenix is fine the way it is... because it 'wears off' after a certain point. It can be defeated, it's just a lot harder to do; because you wind up needing to kill off your opponents' entire army twice. If it handed out true immortality, that stops being true... to beat it, you'd need to kill off your opponents' entire army twice... in the same turn.

That's not to say it's not possible. Referencing specifically the 'feature' of Pyre Zombies and their uncapped explosion damage, it' been proven fairly conclusively that it is entirely possible to destroy an arbitrary stack of units with a relatively modest investment. It's just stupid, because you'd need an arbitrary amount of force to get the job done. Which means it's a bad mechanic.

That said; the OP's suggestion makes a lot of sense; getting the hidden mechanics out in the open and obvious makes for a better experience. I'm in favor.

 

[Tarquelne]

I believe you forgot Abomination, the Scion immortal UU

It's the Immortal UU, but it isn't immortal. Or even immortal.

 

[Iceciro]

SEE! That right there is why I support this change, Tarq! LOL.

 

[zup]

I don't really understand how something made out of brittle bones is more immortal than iron golems but...I guess we should make skeleton summons immortal too? I do not see a fundamental difference. Just mindless automatons both of them.

 

[WarKirby]

I don't really understand how something made out of brittle bones is more immortal than iron golems but...I guess we should make skeleton summons immortal too? I do not see a fundamental difference. Just mindless automatons both of them.

Tip: Read pedia entries


Apparently, the bones absorb their golem-animating magic in a special way that makes them reknit when shattered.

Why they require Divine Essence to do that though, is beyond me

 

[cIV_khanh93]

THe casters need divine essence to enchant bones that well. And dont you go talking about Strenght of will because spellstaves are for the arcane weaklings. Heres the hiearchy of magic:
Engineering>OO>divine>Govannon>Monkey riding a motorcycle (Gurid, naturally in this form his banana affinity provides movement instead of strength)>Arcane.

 

[Tasunke]

Heres how you solve this problem. current immortality --> "pheonix feather"

Then the true immortality could have a tag-promo "immortality" with the current art, just signifying the ability to reappear in the capital city (instead of actually coding it to do this, for those "non alive" units that cannot gain pheonix feather), and while a true immortal might have both pheonix feather and immortality ... maybe the immortality promo will go over the art of pheonix feather, like the combat II art goes over combat I, just to make it easier for new players and the like.

 

[Valkrionn]

No no no. Not phoenix feather... Phoenix Down. Instantly understandable.

 

[Iceciro]

If we rename it to Phoenix Down, I require a Sephiroth unit that has a "Storyline Kill" ability that makes a unit die and stay dead.

 

[Valkrionn]

I vote rename Rathus Denmora. It's his job, after all.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

"Sephiroth the Ghost"... has a good ring to it though ten we need to change the nether blade graphic...
Also, I support the clarification one-hundred percent. Pheonix Down should be instantly recognizable, and at the very least clearer than the current implementation.

 

[Iceciro]

I couldn't take this game seriously if Phoenix Down was a promotion name. Guybrush is really quite bad as it stands...

Second Chance or something is better.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Divine Guardian should be better: "Divine Guardian. When the unit is about to die it is transported to the Capital, instead. The guardian leaves as soon as this is done."