A thread for small ideas

[deadliver]

Er.. Govannon(sp..?)? His oh so touted special ability would become nigh useless, and I think it would seriously degrade the use of it even limiting their T1 spells to their palace mana. However!

You are right!



The Amurite hero is the sole reason there should be no changes made to this civ. Dammit and I thought I had a good idea for once...

OR

Gavannon (or whatever his name is) can be changed. Changed how? Let me sleep off this wild turkey.

 

[WarKirby]

The Amurite hero is the sole reason there should be no changes made to this civ. Dammit and I thought I had a good idea for once...

Arcane Lore is a long time to survive without much else useful unique stuff.

I think it's jsut a reason not to apply a limit like you said.

The core problem with the amurites, is that lv1 magic, just isn't very good. But T2 units ARE. And they both come around at the same time. The amurites are dependant on an inferior mechanic. While other races have early strengths elsewhere.

 

[deadliver]

Arcane Lore is a long time to survive without much else useful unique stuff.

I think it's jsut a reason not to apply a limit like you said.

The core problem with the amurites, is that lv1 magic, just isn't very good. But T2 units ARE. And they both come around at the same time. The amurites are dependant on an inferior mechanic. While other races have early strengths elsewhere.

Please at least include my so people don't think I am a total

I would be happy having warriors with haste, dispel magic or...whatever else these guys have...

Personally I think the magic civs (Amurites, Sheiam, Kahdi, and whoever else) should be able to equip their units with enchanted blades but I digress...

digress to what? Hmm. lvl 1 magic is okay- haste, dance of blades, blur, enchant weapon, raise dead, err...treetop defence (lame cept it means you have anti-muris mana), loyalty (oof)...dispel magic (congrats you have metamagic!), spring, accelerate (never used it, what does it do?), I am sure there are others but I have to water my petunias.

Most are buffs, tell your sister...you were right...you were right...

 

[Milaga]

The core problem with the amurites, is that lv1 magic, just isn't very good. But T2 units ARE. And they both come around at the same time. The amurites are dependant on an inferior mechanic. While other races have early strengths elsewhere.

A while ago, while trying to remap D&D classes to FfH unit types, I noticed this. T1 melee and recon units are available right away, while T2 archer, disciple and arcane units are gained at about the same time T2 melee and recon are available. Out of those 3, the T1 archer units are the only ones viable, and even they can only really be used for city/hill/stack defense.

The problem is that civs that are specially geared for arcane or disciple lines suffer in the early game until they can get their economy built and tech down to their T2 units. I don't see how the Amurites are worse off in this respect than the Elohim or even Sheiam (although the Sheiam have a pretty frightening T2 melee unit.) With Amurites I would tend to tech either archery (to get closer to a firebow) or bronze working (if I had copper nearby) before I started down the long tech to Sorcery. Likewise with Elohim and the disciple line.

Perhaps Amurities need to get their Adepts and Mages one tech earlier.

 

[bhorrar]

Originally Posted by WarKirby
Personally, I think cannons should have no strength. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
And the silly bombard function should be removed.

They should have only one function, ranged attack, which would reduce city defences AND Cause collateral damage with each shot.

I think it should be made powerful enough to be effective in the field or cities, with maybe just a moderate bonus for cities like +50%

I'd also like to see some internal distinction between small arms ranged attacks, and siege ranged attacks. So that I could make Monstrous Creatures more vulnerable to only the latter.

Going back to the cannon idea, when cannons where popularly used in history, cannons had more than one type of ammo. For taking out ships they had the two-balls-connected-by-a-chain ammo. For city taking they had the big-ball-filled-with-gunpowder ammo. And for people they had a lots-of-little-shots-that-spread-like-shotgun ammo.

All this to say, I think the solution is to make cannons a loadout type unit, kinda like boats can go to docks and get new crews, cannons need to be able to change ammo types in cities. The base cannon strength would be 0 and ranged attack would be X, but the ammo type you choose would give bonuses, city attack ammo, could give a bombard and collateral damage all at once attack, exploding cannon balls that tear down walls are more than likely to hurt the people standing next to it. The 'Grapeshot' ammo would give the cannon +X amount of strength, and reduce ranged attack, shotgun type blasts are not known for their power from afar.

But with this system not all ammo types would be available outright. The specific ammo types would only be available once the appropriate tech was discovered.


On to the topic at hand, the Amurites should be able to have an entire secondary line of spells, available only to them... I think it has been said before. A civ whose entire lore history is the most devoted to the study of magic should have a massive amount of magic that other civs can't have access to. The secondary spells could be weaker or entirely different. But every Magic that they learn and at every level of study, i.e. rank I-II-III, the Amurites should have two spells available to their use.

Lore-wise it is thematic, and Functional-wise this seems like it would give the Amurites that boost that they need so badly. Not that this is a 'small idea' but one that seems like is definitely needed to give this civ a chance at surviving throughout the game.

 

[Opera]

Going back to the cannon idea, when cannons where popularly used in history, cannons had more than one type of ammo. For taking out ships they had the two-balls-connected-by-a-chain ammo. For city taking they had the big-ball-filled-with-gunpowder ammo. And for people they had a lots-of-little-shots-that-spread-like-shotgun ammo.

All this to say, I think the solution is to make cannons a loadout type unit, kinda like boats can go to docks and get new crews, cannons need to be able to change ammo types in cities. The base cannon strength would be 0 and ranged attack would be X, but the ammo type you choose would give bonuses, city attack ammo, could give a bombard and collateral damage all at once attack, exploding cannon balls that tear down walls are more than likely to hurt the people standing next to it. The 'Grapeshot' ammo would give the cannon +X amount of strength, and reduce ranged attack, shotgun type blasts are not known for their power from afar.

But with this system not all ammo types would be available outright. The specific ammo types would only be available once the appropriate tech was discovered.

I like that. Pretty interesting and easy to do

In fact, after a bit of searching, you could have:

Grapeshot -> Canister shot
(Antipersonal, close range, collateral)

Round shot -> Shrapnel
(Antipersonal, long range, ->collateral)

Heated shot -> Shell
(Antimaterial, long range)

Chain shot
(Antinaval, close range)

Could be fun. Micromanagement would certainly turns off people... even though, iirc, you can't have more than 4 cannons.

 

[Milaga]

The specific ammo types would only be available once the appropriate tech was discovered.

As someone who dislikes seeing an overuse of gunpowder in my fantasy, I find this going a bit too far. However, if someone wanted to implement this I can this quite easily coming from the system Fall Further has. A "Master Siegesmith" which can allow all siege weapons to purchase special ammo (flaming cows, diseased haggis, cannonball of poo, whatever.) Actually, the more I think about a Balseraph catapult throwing live burning purple cows over the Kuriotates ramparts, the more I really like this idea.

The secondary spells could be weaker or entirely different. But every Magic that they learn and at every level of study, i.e. rank I-II-III, the Amurites should have two spells available to their use.

I agree, although the FfH team has already had such a hard time coming up with unique enough spells for each mana type and level that they've left out some of the mana altogether. Although the Amurites benefit from getting lots of different types of mana, some overlap might be okay so they can get the same effects of other spheres without having to actually get those mana types. I think the problem they have is more towards the beginning of the game. Once they start raking in the mana and building squadrons of mages the game gets considerably easier for them. At the least adding some T1 spells which are either weaker versions of the T2 spell or offer an alternative to the buffs that most of them seem to be.

Some suggested alternative Channeling I spells:

• Air - Fair Weather - +1 to a farm. Must be cast inside cultural borders. Remains so long as the caster stays in the plot.
• Body - Strength of Body - Grants the march promotion to the stack. 100% chance of wearing off each turn.
• Chaos - Omen of Change - Units created in the city have a +10% chance of gaining the mutation promotion so long as the caster remains in the city.
• Death - Touch of Death - Inflicts 10-30% (max 30%) damage to random living unit in a stack.
• Dimensional - Blink - Adds Blink (95% withdrawal rate) promotion to caster. 100% chance of wearing off each turn.
• Earth - Rockflow - +1 to a mine. Must be cast inside cultural borders. Remains so long as the caster stays in the plot.
• Enchantment - Enchanting Lights - +1 in a city so long as the caster remains in the city.
• Entropy - Fallow - -1 to a plot so long as the caster remains on the plot.
• Fire - Burning Arrows - Adds Burning Arrow (+20% strength) promotion to all archery units in the stack. This promotion is lost if Flaming Arrow promotion is gained.
• Force - Magic Missile - Adds Magic Missile promotion to caster. This promotion allows a 3 strength ranged attack to be made. -100% combat experience gained from ranged attacks. This promotion is removed after a ranged attack is made.
• Growth - Blessing of the Herd - +1 to a pasture. Must be cast inside cultural borders. Remains so long as the caster stays in the plot.
• Ice - Chilling Winds - Turns grass/plains to tundra or tundra to ice. 20% chance per turn to revert. Takes 2 turns to cast.
• Law - Community Organizer - Reduces the maintenance in a city by 30% so long as the caster remains in the city.
• Life - Rites of Sucellus - Adds promotion to caster that increases the heal rate of units in the same tile by 5%/10%/15%. 25% chance to wear off each turn.
• Metamagic - Empower - Adds promotion to the stack that has a 20% chance to prevent any temporary promotions from wearing off that turn. 100% chance to wear off each turn (or, maybe not, if it prevents promotions from wearing off.)
• Mind - Greed - Doubles the of any hamlet, village or town plot while eliminating all or from the plot. Remains so long as the caster stays in the plot.
• Nature - Lesser Poisoned Blade - Grants a Lesser Poisoned Blade promotion (+20% strength) to any recon units in the stack. This promotion is lost if the Poisoned Blade promotion is gained.
• Shadow - Evade - Adds Evade (+15% withdrawal chance) promotion to all recon, melee, archer, arcane and disciple units in the stack. 50% chance to wear off each turn.
• Spirit - Strength of Spirit - Adds Strength of Spirit promotion to all units in the stack. If the unit is killed they will inflict 0-10% (max 100%) damage on their opponent. 100% chance of wearing off each turn.
• Sun - Daylight - Adds Sentry promotion to arcane and recon units in the stack. 100% chance of wearing off per turn.
• Water - Attuned to Water - Grants Amphibious promotion to all units in the stack. 100% chance of wearing off each turn.

 

[deadliver]

I like that. Pretty interesting and easy to do

In fact, after a bit of searching, you could have:

Grapeshot -> Canister shot
(Antipersonal, close range, collateral)

Round shot -> Shrapnel
(Antipersonal, long range, ->collateral)

Heated shot -> Shell
(Antimaterial, long range)

Chain shot
(Antinaval, close range)

Could be fun. Micromanagement would certainly turns off people... even though, iirc, you can't have more than 4 cannons.

Huh, that is actually a pretty sweet idea.

 

[Mylon]

I wonder... If a mage specialist was added (requires mage guild and possibly others), what would they do? We could get great mages they would act a bit like archmages and possibly perform a ritual that adds an additional mana type to the palace mana (a way of settling them).

So great mages could:
Upgrade to arch mages
Take a mana node and make it a permanet part of a civ
Create something like the master smith for enchanting gear (maybe choose a random valid method, like fire swords, ice swords, etc depending on what is available).

 

[WarKirby]

I think the different ammo types for cannons is going a bit far.

I assume they're fairly primitive. Light fuse, go boom.

I do like the idea of more spells certainly. I've always been in favour of simply adding more spells, rather than throwing away existing ones. But doing so many spells just for one faction seems silly. If it's going to be done, it ought to be for everyone.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

If there is an issue with arcane not having 4 real tiers of units...seems like it would be fairly easy to create another tier.

The new tier 1 adept would have to be somewhat weaker than the present one...Power 1 or 2? Heck, you could make it a completely non-combat unit that is auto-captured if engaged. Doesn't automatically get promotions for duplicate mana? No free promotion?

Make it nice and cheap, only available to arcane leaders. No other prereqs.

 

[xienwolf]

I actually created a full Ammo system shortly after I changed how Naval crews worked (For both Naval/Seige and Achery/Gunpowder units). The ability to have a promotion deal damage on removal came from this system (Barbed Arrows that reduced healing rate and dealt damage when removed), and it was what moved me from the Min/Max WeaponTier system to the PromotionAllow/PromotionDeny system which is far more flexible and has made the entire WeaponTier system obsolete. In the end the ammo all got ditched in favor of the Master Buildings when Tarq got interested by my work and did FAR better with it all .

So now you know the development history of one of the more enjoyed new systems we have out there

 

[Valkrionn]

A good pre-adept unit would be a 1:str: unit, able to learn ONLY spells granted by the capital.

 

[Opera]

So, bringing back an ammo system, at least for the cannons, but using a Master rather than simple "naval-like" proms could be interesting, no? It wouldn't force the player to use it but it could be nifty. Well, at least I like it

 

[Valkrionn]

Damn you people lol. I was already planning on one of those.

 

[Opera]

Which one?

 

[deadliver]

Probably cannon wielding amurite pre-adepts.

@vermicious: cool idea, kinda like the lightbearer of arcane civs. Only thing is that they would obsolete way too quickly, pop a great sage now you no longer need them. better to let arcane civs teach spells to their low level melee and archer units. Not so sure about cavalry.

 

[Milaga]

Probably cannon wielding amurite pre-adepts.

No, it was the flaming purple cows. I just know it.

 

[Valkrionn]

Which one?

Master Siegesmith. Possibly other Master buildings, if I can generate enough ideas.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

@vermicious: cool idea, kinda like the lightbearer of arcane civs. Only thing is that they would obsolete way too quickly, pop a great sage now you no longer need them. better to let arcane civs teach spells to their low level melee and archer units. Not so sure about cavalry.

Hrrrm. I sometimes go for a while without KOTE. Certainly can be a while before you see a great sage...


Maybe adepts need to be improved along with the addition of the new unit(apprentice?).