A thread for small ideas

[WarKirby]

I'm seem to recall Channeling giving a "decreases chance to defend the stack" modifier. At least I thought it did. In ... some mod or another. I coulda sworn it was FF. Guess I'm playing with too many mods to keep this straight.

Yes, it does.

But a str 4 adept with Combat III, still defends the stack over a skeleton he summoned. It reduces the chance to defend, but doesn't eliminate it entirely

And str4 combat III isn't really much use when you're attacked by a str6 Combat V griffon, or spider, or Orthus. Or similar stack of doom.

Yes, I know melee units ought to be used for protecting, but skeletons ARE expendable. It's their role. Their job is simply to die and be replaced, hopefully injuring the enemy in the process. An increased chance to defend the stack would allow this, wasting one of the enemy's attacks, and preventing something more valuable from dying.



Anyways, on a related note. I'm playing an amurite game atm, got into an early war with the bannor, and my adepts are useless. Why does the single most magic oriented faction in the game have such useless starting mana?

Blaze is one of the least useful spells in the game. Unless you're fighting the ljosalfar, it has almost no use at all. Sure, fire mana gives fireballs, but surviving until that point is somethign that has to be addressed first. If you need fireballs, you could easily build a fire node by the time you research sorcery.

Body mana is kind of good. Haste is a nice spell, but being able to run away faster doesn't make the enemy die.



Personally, I'd like to see the Amurites' starting mana changed to Metamagic/Enchantment/Death.

Ok, death may be a bit thematically un-appropriate from a lore standpoint, but from a gameplay perspective, it's utterly essential if you want to make an army composed primarily of arcane units. Even if not death, enchantment at least. When I think of a magic faction, I think of their warriors fighting with magic swords. Even just swapping out fire for enchantment would give them that very necessary edge.

In a present amurite game, I'm barely holding out against a bannor onslaught, by spamming archers incessantly (ranged attacks are incredible). My mages are almost no help at all, and researching an extra two techs (alteration, necromancy) to get decent mana types for warfare, is something I can't afford to do, not to mention that I only have one free mana node.. The real kicker is that the bannor have enchanted weapons, and I don't, thanks to their rushing RoK and building bambur (oh how unthematic)

In short, the amurites need enchantment mana, and possibly death too. They don't need fire, and body is only marginally useful early on.

 

[ICanHasName?]

Now that I think about it, fire I is pretty sad. Its both weak and situational, whereas good spells should be either powerful but situational (spring/scorch, rust) or weak but mostly always useful (haste, inspiration, dance of blades... actually these are sad too but hey 2 is 2 ).

Definatly agree that the Amurites should get enchantment instead of body. I want to say body represents the legacy of Kylorin or something like that, but MM represents that better anyway. I do like them having fire mana as fireball is the swiss army knife of spells, but I guess its not neccisary and fire I fails hard.

What if the Amurites got to choose 1 or 2 of their palace manas like Decius chooses his allignment? They could start with MM, Enchantment (fire?), and a free pick. It would be powerful, but they don't really get anything else until Govannon and it wouldn't be any better then the best level 1 spell. As a side effect this would allow them to start anywhere thanks to spring/scorch...

 

[The NeverTide]

Okay well I have a couple of ideas for this thread.

I think this thread could probably be really useful for modders who are looking for extra ideas or are looking to make corrections to the core game that people desire. That being said, I went ahead and went through a few pages and pulled up some ideas as an example. I don't know if you're interested in this WarKirby but perhaps you could add ideas to the OP as we come up with them? It isn't necessary and may not be worth the trouble, just an idea, and I would certainly do it if I had posted anywhere on the first page.
I was also wondering, is there a way to have multiple polls in one thread? If so, when we discuss an idea we could use a poll for the most logical ideas for a fix and have a mini-democracy on what we would agree upon. Like everything I say, just an idea.

Anyway, here's a spoiler for an example of what the OP could look like. This is VERY limited in scope and I'm listing all the ideas under community instead of individuals, including my own.

Spoiler Community Suggested Improvements :

Community Suggested Improvements
1. The change of the T1 Chaos sphere spell rust to the name of corrode with the ability to give a -(1 or 2) strength modifier OR take away copper and iron weapons if present, otherwise apply -strength modifier). Mithril weapons are immune to magic, and thus outside the sphere of this spell's influence.

2. Griffin changes:

• Giving Jotnar the ability to catch griffins and tame them in a manner that provides them as a substitute hawk for the Jotnar.

• Allowing captured griffins to be ridden by any hunter by creating a cargo space on captured griffins

3. Muros Clan Goblin Dump event fix:

• Make the effect temporary, lasting an x amount of turns.

• Allow a nature adept to "purify" the tile by walking on it.

4. Making Hill Giant Staedings actually spawn hill giants.

5. Giving demons access to the cannibalize promotion.

6. Giving the terrify spell an autocast option where applicable (ex: horned dreads).

7. Late game worker/slave activities:

• Allowing a worker to spend a large amount of time to permanently improve a tile (e.g. +1 permanently on that tile).

• Allowing workers to stand on tiles for an indefinite amount of time to provide a single +1 bonus yield to that tile. Bonus yield removed whenever the worker leaves the tile.

8. Amurite starting options:

• Changing the starting palace mana from metamagic, body, and fire to: (a) metamagic, enchantment, death. (b) metamagic, enchantment, and giving the Amurites the ability to choose their final starting mana.
• Giving the Amurites a new or specialized starting units: (a) An adept with the metamagic 1 and a negative experience modifier that cannot be removed until KotE is researched. (b) A scout with access only to the metamagic 1 spell.

9. Making the Sprawling civ trait double the growth speed of cottages and their subsequent upgrades.

10. Possible summon changes:

• Giving skeletons a special promotion (warden?) that increases their chance to defend the stack.
• Or perhaps giving ALL summons that promotion.

Looking back, I really should've waited to do all that. x_X Well, what does everyone think? Especially about the polls, is it possible?

 

[Deon]

I say, no Death to Amurites. However Enchantment seems nice, and ability to choose starting manas seems thematically and gameplay-wise appropriate.

 

[WarKirby]

I say, no Death to Amurites.

It's not appropriate thematically, but it is useful, which fire mana is not.

Personally, I think the best solution would be abetter or additional lv1 fire spell, something capable of direct damage.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

It's not appropriate thematically, but it is useful, which fire mana is not.

Personally, I think the best solution would be abetter or additional lv1 fire spell, something capable of direct damage.

That is very easy to do in XML.

I've been creating 2nd spells or side benefits for each level...but it has been slow going. I only do one when I have a good idea.

As far as a level 1 fire spell...how about whipping up a weaker fireball to summon? I'd say you could just add ranged damage, but I'm not aware of any way to give that damage an energy type in XML. Another idea would be +1 fire damage for melee units that expires after one round...but that may be too strong.

 

[Milaga]

Why not adjust the Amurites adept unit to give them a ranged attack similar to an archer. All adepts can cast a spell, magic missile, that is independent of the spell spheres. I don't see a 2 STR ranged attack being all that powerful and imbalancing but it will allow adepts to aid their armies without altering what spells they can cast.

 

[ICanHasName?]

A magic ranged attack would be awsome but it would have to not give exp. It would make a good fire 1 spell too.

Edit: or an enraged mini fireball. Enraged would make it random and uncontrolable, and also mean you dont have to sit there and micromanage a bunch of fireballs.

Edit2: actually isn't force I or II or something a magic ranged attack?

 

[Valkrionn]

Okay well I have a couple of ideas for this thread.

I think this thread could probably be really useful for modders who are looking for extra ideas or are looking to make corrections to the core game that people desire. That being said, I went ahead and went through a few pages and pulled up some ideas as an example. I don't know if you're interested in this WarKirby but perhaps you could add ideas to the OP as we come up with them? It isn't necessary and may not be worth the trouble, just an idea, and I would certainly do it if I had posted anywhere on the first page.
I was also wondering, is there a way to have multiple polls in one thread? If so, when we discuss an idea we could use a poll for the most logical ideas for a fix and have a mini-democracy on what we would agree upon. Like everything I say, just an idea.

Anyway, here's a spoiler for an example of what the OP could look like. This is VERY limited in scope and I'm listing all the ideas under community instead of individuals, including my own.

Spoiler Community Suggested Improvements :

Community Suggested Improvements
1. The change of the T1 Chaos sphere spell rust to the name of corrode with the ability to give a -(1 or 2) strength modifier OR take away copper and iron weapons if present, otherwise apply -strength modifier). Mithril weapons are immune to magic, and thus outside the sphere of this spell's influence.

2. Griffin changes:

• Giving Jotnar the ability to catch griffins and tame them in a manner that provides them as a substitute hawk for the Jotnar.

• Allowing captured griffins to be ridden by any hunter by creating a cargo space on captured griffins

3. Muros Clan Goblin Dump event fix:

• Make the effect temporary, lasting an x amount of turns.

• Allow a nature adept to "purify" the tile by walking on it.

4. Making Hill Giant Staedings actually spawn hill giants.

5. Giving demons access to the cannibalize promotion.

6. Giving the terrify spell an autocast option where applicable (ex: horned dreads).

7. Late game worker/slave activities:

• Allowing a worker to spend a large amount of time to permanently improve a tile (e.g. +1 permanently on that tile).

• Allowing workers to stand on tiles for an indefinite amount of time to provide a single +1 bonus yield to that tile. Bonus yield removed whenever the worker leaves the tile.

8. Amurite starting options:

• Changing the starting palace mana from metamagic, body, and fire to: (a) metamagic, enchantment, death. (b) metamagic, enchantment, and giving the Amurites the ability to choose their final starting mana.
• Giving the Amurites a new or specialized starting units: (a) An adept with the metamagic 1 and a negative experience modifier that cannot be removed until KotE is researched. (b) A scout with access only to the metamagic 1 spell.

9. Making the Sprawling civ trait double the growth speed of cottages and their subsequent upgrades.

10. Possible summon changes:

• Giving skeletons a special promotion (warden?) that increases their chance to defend the stack.
• Or perhaps giving ALL summons that promotion.

Looking back, I really should've waited to do all that. x_X Well, what does everyone think? Especially about the polls, is it possible?

Haha, I'm actually using some of these already.... For example, the new Hippogriff unit has the same stats as the Griffon, but is able to carry cargo.

 

[xienwolf]

One could also just allow Amurite Adepts to gain free rank 2 promotions if you have 3 mana of that type upon building them. It isn't a HUGE advantage because Amurites WILL aim to get Sorcery quickly, and once they do, any adept becomes a mage the same turn he is built anyway, so the advantage disappears at that point. Instead you get essentially mages starting at your first Node Tech if you go for focused Node assignment instead of the classical spread (for Cave XP) assignment. Lets you snag some early fireball power or whatever else floats your boat (could even pull it off at KotE if you start near the Pyre and get lucky with trading for someone else's Palace Fire Mana, but that would be a hard trade to accomplish short of vassalizing them, which would be REAL hard to accomplish before getting a Node Tech yourself)

 

[Rystic]

One could also just allow Amurite Adepts to gain free rank 2 promotions if you have 3 mana of that type upon building them. It isn't a HUGE advantage because Amurites WILL aim to get Sorcery quickly, and once they do, any adept becomes a mage the same turn he is built anyway, so the advantage disappears at that point. Instead you get essentially mages starting at your first Node Tech if you go for focused Node assignment instead of the classical spread (for Cave XP) assignment. Lets you snag some early fireball power or whatever else floats your boat (could even pull it off at KotE if you start near the Pyre and get lucky with trading for someone else's Palace Fire Mana, but that would be a hard trade to accomplish short of vassalizing them, which would be REAL hard to accomplish before getting a Node Tech yourself)

The problem is that the Adepts would need Channeling II to cast fireball, and if you give them that, they're basically Mages

On a separate note, in my TweakMod, I came up with a solution for the Amurites that works fairly well. I give spells one-node tier down (so instead of needing 2 of a mana for Adepts to start with that spell, you need one of it). This lets Amurite Adepts buy Combat promotions, which balances out the fact they can't use weapons.

 

[xienwolf]

You don't need channeling to cast anything except Channeling I required for rank I spells.

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, not completely true. The Divine spells DO require the different channeling ranks, but adepts won't be using those anyway.

 

[far_wanderer]

I'd like to see undead get double movement in deserts and marshes (or just ignore the movement penalty of those two terrains). Undead march tirelessly, and don't have to worry about many of the hazards that would slow travelers down in either of those terrains.
This would also open up a bit of strategy for the Scions, as you could set aside large patches of marsh or desert (preferably haunted) on your borders to outmaneuver enemies in.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'd disagree about Marsh, as they'd still get bogged down, but desert shouldn't really affect them, no. Can be easily done with an autoacquire promo requiring Undead, and desert.

 

[WarKirby]

One could also just allow Amurite Adepts to gain free rank 2 promotions if you have 3 mana of that type upon building them. It isn't a HUGE advantage because Amurites WILL aim to get Sorcery quickly, and once they do, any adept becomes a mage the same turn he is built anyway, so the advantage disappears at that point.

I think one problem though, is that the amurites need a huge advantage

This idea sounds very marginal and only mildly useful. By the time you get your first node building tech, you're only one away from sorcery anyway. And going for multiple manan noes then will short change you in the long run, since you'll get less cave of ancestors xp, and less variety of spells.


The main problem here, is that most of the lv1 spells suck. The majority are utility spells or mild buffs. Whereas the Calabim for instance can get moroi by bronze working. The Balseraphs get freaks at carnivals. The Archos have those awesome Brutes at bronze working. But at KotE, their flagship early tech, the amurites get almost nothing of any real use in warfare.

They're just a very weak early faction in general, and I see them die out quite often because of it.

I think the ideal solution, would be to give them enchantment mana (in place of body) and add a new Fire I spell that's capable of doing damage. Peerhaps a "Burning Blade" spell, which would woork similar to bless, giving units in the stack +1 str for a single battle.

 

[WarKirby]

I'd disagree about Marsh, as they'd still get bogged down, but desert shouldn't really affect them, no. Can be easily done with an autoacquire promo requiring Undead, and desert.

I'd have to disagree here. i don't tink there's any justification for this at all.

For desets, I envision it as all the shifting sand dunes making it difficult to hold your footing. Undead are known for being clumsy, so I don't see how they would be any better at crossing a desert

 

[Valkrionn]

Scions aren't your typical undead, as they're supposed to retain all their normal faculties, and them not being bothered by the heat or lack of water would probably make up for the dunes.

 

[deadliver]

Allow Amurite units to gain first level spell levels, even limit them to a few such as the starting ones they could get from the palace mana. There has been a discussion (at times acrimonious) regarding starting the game with adepts etc but there shouldn't be a reason why you could not have warriors able to learn haste for example but not able to become fully fledged casters. OR allow any/most amurite units to upgrade either to mages or adepts if the player chooses?

Anyone here ever played/heard of the RPG Runequest? Starting characters, all characters basically began the game with some sort of minor magic. Only the dedicated Sorcerers/Shamans and Priests get the truly good stuff but even a simple warrior knows (they should anyhow!) a simple spell to buff their weapons temporarily.

My impression of the Scions is that they are immortals more along the lines of mummies or vampires than shambling mounds unless that form is advantageous. They represent humankind's defeat of many things regarding life such as not disease (though they do not like living in cesspools for aesthetic reasons)

 

[The NeverTide]

Haha, I'm actually using some of these already.... For example, the new Hippogriff unit has the same stats as the Griffon, but is able to carry cargo.

Yeah I remember reading that now and I actually prefer the way you're handling it (with the requirement of the griffin upgrade). And I'm glad somebody said something about that, REALLY should have waited to compile all those ideas.

Allow Amurite units to gain first level spell levels, even limit them to a few such as the starting ones they could get from the palace mana.

Er.. Govannon(sp..?)? His oh so touted special ability would become nigh useless, and I think it would seriously degrade the use of it even limiting their T1 spells to their palace mana. However!

OR allow any/most amurite units to upgrade either to mages or adepts if the player chooses?

I think that is a pretty nifty idea really. I mean, much like what you say runequest is like, I imagine that even the lowest of Amurites has dabbled in at least a brief foray into the magical arts. This would be a great way to represent their natural affinity for it. That said, I think this would still be too late a game mechanic to be of much help. The battlemages already make them decent late gamers, but the early game can be pretty rough. Right now I'm dry on alternatives though. :/ But! What if the Amurite palace itself was capable of defending the capital city via magical means? Maybe like the Malakim citadels of light? This would make good use of that fire/enchantment mana, or could simply represent Dain or Valhalla residing there and personally blasting any potential interference in their studies.

Scions aren't your typical undead, as they're supposed to retain all their normal faculties, and them not being bothered by the heat or lack of water would probably make up for the dunes.

I've always interpreted it similarly, but undead or not the body still has some degree of upkeep, or so I've always imagined. As in oppressive waves of heat couple with gritty sand will still wear down and dry out even their immortal bodies, meaning that they must make allowances to ensure that whether traveling or at war they can make it to a flesh studio to be repaired/remodeled, or risk getting stranded in the desert and buried under the dunes/picked apart by vultures.