A visual experiment: Would you like Civ3 to look like this -->

[elementgoo]

In reply to Stormbringer:
I would also like to know how such professinal units are created???

 

[Redking]

Kryten said:

How are you going to tell that this little campfire is a unit of Spearmen, that little encampment is a unit of Archers, who are in those tents near that mountain, and which one of them is that old unit of Warriors that you were bringing back to your capital so that they can be upgraded?

Well, perhaps I'm a minority on this, but I'm quite all right with not having an immediate visual cue as to what units are encamped. I can simply right click on the unit to see what it is - just as I would have to do in order to see what units are hidden in a stack on a single tile.

A camp with a civ-specific banner would be a perfect default FLC to me (and more realistic). And a miniature figure standing over it would seem strange to me.

I'd much rather see a map with an assortment of camps, to go along with the villages, farmsteads, fortresses, and cities... than a map full of figures standing in congregated pose.

I understand the disadvantage of having to click to see what's camped out over the mountain. But it also offers the feature of making you pay more attention to who it is camped at your border. And when you see a flash of legs - a munit moving - then you quickly grasp that something is happening, perhaps more quickly than if you constantly saw figures in default.

Any way, I'm sure I'm in the minority in this regard, just wanted to defend that position.

As for a smaller figure popping in and out, I think that would be too distracting. Of course, testing would bear all this out.

 

[GIDustin]

I would not mind actually seeing the full unit in the default, the whole group of units actually. When moving a unit, it does it's run, and then when it gets to the square, it switches to default. Then it goes back to the run for the next square. It would seem rather odd if a group of spearman set up and tore down camp every square . . .

This is just my opinion. To sum up my opinion, the first frame of the attack would be fine for default.

GIDustin

 

[computerdude113]

Originally posted by Steph


And now they shall see

I've wait a bit to have something nice looking, the first version was a bit ugly, and there was a flaw in the perspective, the new one is a lot better.

Wow, I thought I was following this thread, but this compleatly passed me by. Steph, are you gonna release this? If so it would really help me make the dino hunting groups I wanted to make!

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Civanator
That is amazing! Not to nag, but you should make 1 row of 2. I have many other ideas for it, but i don't want to pressure you too much.

If you look closely at the formation area, you will see that there is a lot of place unused. It's for more formations

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Dragon King
That looks very cool....great work So does that take seperate single foot unit flcs, pile them into a multi unit builder and make a flc out of it at the end?

It takes the separente single unit (not necessary foot) pcx storyboard, and generate a multi unit true color bmp storyboard.

You still need flicster to produce the pcx storyboard, and then FLC at the end.

I don't know the format of the FLC.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by The Troquelet
Would it be possible to create a "column", 3 lines of 2 [6 units in three single file lines]? Or would that be too large for the dimensions. also, is it possible to have a "square" [2 rows of 2] the animation would be the same for all compass directions...

Yes, I plan to give the possibility to "turn" the single unit in any direction, so you can make square. The column is one of the schedule formation. And you can always use the offset to make variation of the standard formation.

Originally posted by The Troquelet

With this great SB builder, it looks like the only real work will be in writing death animations [after all they can't all die the same way.] Perhaps a few can die, while a few can play their "run" flc in various directions away from the battle, so we won't need as many new anims.

I think it won't even be a real work. I have some ideas to put this in the tool.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Kryten
STEPH! How many fingers have you got!

Euh... Last time I count it was 10

Originally posted by Kryten

However, I notice that the figures are still a little bit outside the grid.
Would it be possible to squeeze the figures together a bit more so that their feet stay inside the grid?

First, you can use the offset to put your little guy closer or farther to the center. I've found a small pb : it seems that the animation itself is not always in the center of the frame. This seems to be constant, on all the facing.
So I will probably add a second set of offset. One will be centering, and will be used to place the unit correctly, relatively to the center. The other one will be used to place the unit correctly, relatively to the other unit.
To make things easier, I will also add a feature to apply the centering offset to all the unit (useful when they are the same), and another one to "extend" the formation, changing all the offset at the same time.

Originally posted by Kryten

I don't think that you can cure this.....and to be honest, I wouldn't bother.
All the creator has to do is use the PaintShop 'colour replacer' tool to change all the bright red/green bits into one of the shadow colours.

I read directly the PCX storyboard. So if you want to use the alpha palette, you simply have to apply this palette to the storyboard before using my tool.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man

Also, Steph, a simple suggestion. how about you can (1) set the number of units you want on the square, (2) set how much you will scale each unit down in size, and from there you can (3) create any style of formations by simply setting the x/y co-ordinates for each unit for where they will be on the square. That way, we dont have to stay with your preset formations; we can make our own.

You already can. The preset formation is used to determine :
- how many unit you will use, from 1 to 6 (I plan to include the 1 unit formation for people who don't want to use the crowded look, but would like to use my tool anyway). I will perhaps extend it to 9, to make squares, but I'm not sure yet.
- in what order the units are copied, it depends of the orientation of course.

Then you can use X and Y to adapt the position. Look at Kryten screenshot : his two lines are not aligned. However, when doing it, you need to use a formation that is close enough, or the order may not be correct in certain orientation.

And as you select which file you want, you can mix whatever you want.

 

[bhiita]

Originally posted by Kryten

To bhiita....I don't think that a Roman Testudo would quite work I'm afraid.

I will kindly refuse the belief in such hootydooty

I was thinking along these lines....
....most units would have the 2nd rank sort of 'fidgeting' with their weapon at the ready, and acting as a sort of reserve.
But the following units could have active 2nd ranks:-
Legionaries could carry a single pilum each (in reality they carried two), and the attackA.flc would have both ranks throwing these and then drawing their swords, while attackB.flc has the 1st rank getting stuck in while the 2nd rank 'fidgets' at the ready.
Celtic Swordsmen, Germanic Warriors, and Roman Auxiliaries would have the rear rank continuously throwing javelins overhead.

well at least the pilums. it's one of the two main things that I don't like about the Legion. I'm soo happy to see someone implementing that. when you mean "getting stuck in" is this a thrusting/stabing or the slashing that they have already?

 

[Dragon King]

Originally posted by Kryten


Actually....he comes from a British comedy series called "Red Dwarf".

Whenever i read your posts, i always imagine that its Kryten speaking.

 

[th0mas]

Originally posted by Kryten

But I do have one very embarrassing confession....
....to my undying shame I find that I no longer have a Civ2 CD!
I seem to remember that in the Civ2 "Fantastic Worlds" expansion disk, there were several good sound waves of 'machine gun battles' and 'musket volleys'....one of them even had an officer bellowing "FIRE" as the volley cracked out!
This would be perfect for 17th, 18th and 19th century Musketmen & Riflemen.

I wonder if someone could post these sound waves for me.
Cheers!

I don't know if you still need them?
Either way, I believe these are the wav files you requested.

Please continue the excellent work

 

[Kryten]

Thank you very much th0mas.

Do you have the "Fantastic Worlds" expansion disk, as I am still looking for more "machinegun battles".....and especially that musket volley with the officer shouting "FIRE!", as well as other musket volleys.

Originally posted by bhiita
when you mean "getting stuck in" is this a thrusting/stabing or the slashing that they have already?

Well, if we are going to make the Legionary historially accurate by giving them pila, then we have to have right weapon used the right way.
Thrusting!
And we must do something about that shield. The Romans NEVER carried a figure-of-eight 'cello' shaped shield!
(Although, funnily enough, the front rank of the Persian Immortals did)

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by Globetrotter


I was just thinking whether it would be fun to put as much units as there are hp's. i.e., 5 hp unit has five units in it, 4 hp units has 4, etc... combo units could be fun too!!!

That can't be done. It will have to be a one size fits all thing.

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by pap1723
The only problem I can think of having just one unit as the default, is that if you decide to have regiments, divisions and battalions, as the enemy you won't be able to see the size of the army you are fighting right away.

Or maybe taht is a good thing since you don't alwayts know how big the army that your fighting is?

Pap

These graphics aren't going to change anything in the actual game play, they are strictly cosmetic. Nor will anyone be able to make any such changes. A Pikeman will still be a Pikeman, it will just look like a squad, instead of an individual unit.

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by Redking
I like the grouped unit.


Now, here's the thought: while I like the notion of the grouped default/fidget just fine, perhaps it would shorten some of the labor (and eliminate the fidget also) if the default animations for these units were encampments, bivuacs, campfires, tent cities, etc. Smoke could rise, for visual interest.

I really like that idea! I think it would be cool to see a Roman camp rather than a Roman Legion. However you'd have to be careful that they didn't all start looking alike. You'd need a single unit standing guard maybe, so you could differentiate between a Legion and an Infantry.

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Dragon King
Whenever i read your posts, i always imagine that its Kryten speaking.

Me too funnily...... internet can be wierd like that.

 

[bhiita]

Originally posted by Kryten
Well, if we are going to make the Legionary historially accurate by giving them pila, then we have to have right weapon used the right way.
Thrusting!
And we must do something about that shield. The Romans NEVER carried a figure-of-eight 'cello' shaped shield!
(Although, funnily enough, the front rank of the Persian Immortals did)

:worshp: :worshp: :worshp:

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by Kryten

... and which one of them is that old unit of Warriors that you were bringing back to your capital so that they can be upgraded?

That shouldn't be a problem since you'd only need the encampment for the Fortify flc. All the other would remain the same.

Now we could have a Warrior figure sitting by a fire, or a Spearman standing by a tent, or a couple of archers making a pot of tea.....but this means MORE, not LESS work, as these new figure positions have to be created....and figure creation (even just trying to make someone kneel down), takes weeks!

Why would you need to do all that? Just have it as it is now with a single unit just standing there, and squeeze in a camp in the background. You could even make them era specific so that the encampment looks different, more modern, over time.

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by Steph


And now they shall see

I've wait a bit to have something nice looking, the first version was a bit ugly, and there was a flaw in the perspective, the new one is a lot better.

Way Cool! If you could make that available to all of us, I wouldn't have to wait for anyone, I could just do it all myself. Please, pretty please?