A visual experiment: Would you like Civ3 to look like this -->

[Steph]

10 pages in 2 days! Did we break a new record?

Kryten, I'm sorry, but I have the feeling I have a bit highjacked your thread, I hope you don' mind

 

[Radical Dreamer]

I just have to say, this is possibly the greatest thing that anyone has decided to change about civ 3. I can't wait to try out the new graphics. I have tried to do a few things with the graphics but unfortunitly i'm not very good and drawing.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Steph


Woaw! I've been promoted a unit creator, when I've never created any unit

Well, I "threw" you into the mix because it now seems that your work is going to be instrumental in the creation of these new units. Thus, indirectly, you are a unit creator. See?

 

[Redking]

I like the grouped unit.

I like the grouped attack.

I like the grouped run.

I like the chaos of the grouped death/rout.

Now, here's the thought: while I like the notion of the grouped default/fidget just fine, perhaps it would shorten some of the labor (and eliminate the fidget also) if the default animations for these units were encampments, bivuacs, campfires, tent cities, etc. Smoke could rise, for visual interest.

This way several FLCs could cover a whole host of animations for the default phase of many units, with specificity for culture and era (a Roman camp vs. an Arab camp vs. a barbarian warband camp vs. an Siouxan tepee camp vs. a modern army camp vs. a Napoleanic camp, etc.)

Ultimately, these FLCs, made mostly of geometric shapes and usable by multiple units, might save work over the process of cutting and pasting multiple figures for all the defaults/fidgets (although I understand Steph's work intends to automate much of this). Besides, a bunch of guys sitting there in formation looks a lot sillier than a single unit, which manages to connote more of an iconic, representative quality IMO.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[DANGERBOY]

Interesting that it took this long for the forum to come up with this idea. My immediate reaction when I first arrived here and found the unit creation tutorials was that I could now create multi-units for the mod I plan to start creating in the near future. This was back in September. I didn't realize it hadn't been brought up before, or I would have said something. Very cool that people are working on that as we speak! Steph, I need that SBB program when you're done with it; Kryten, all right if I modify your Alexander units? - they're almost identical to what I need, just want to make decorative changes (shield symbols and the like).

 

[thestonesfan]

I like it...but I have one incredibly minor concern of pure aesthetics. If you attack a unit that is just sitting there, the unit puts up much more of a fight than if you had actually caught them "with their pants down" in camp, so to speak.

Perhaps if there was a way to raise the defensive bonus of being fortified, you could lower all units' base defence so that you really couldn't afford to leave a unit just fidgeting somewhere drinking coffee and eating hardtack, unfortified.

Another Civ4 idea - ambush!

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. If it saves work in unit creation...it's a fantastic idea.

 

[DANGERBOY]

Originally posted by Redking
I like the grouped unit.

I like the grouped attack.

I like the grouped run.

I like the chaos of the grouped death/rout.

Now, here's the thought: while I like the notion of the grouped default/fidget just fine, perhaps it would shorten some of the labor (and eliminate the fidget also) if the default animations for these units were encampments, bivuacs, campfires, tent cities, etc. Smoke could rise, for visual interest.

This way several FLCs could cover a whole host of animations for the default phase of many units, with specificity for culture and era (a Roman camp vs. an Arab camp vs. a barbarian warband camp vs. an Siouxan tepee camp vs. a modern army camp vs. a Napoleanic camp, etc.)

Ultimately, these FLCs, made mostly of geometric shapes and usable by multiple units, might save work over the process of cutting and pasting multiple figures for all the defaults/fidgets (although I understand Steph's work intends to automate much of this). Besides, a bunch of guys sitting there in formation looks a lot sillier than a single unit, which manages to connote more of an iconic, representative quality IMO.

Anyway, food for thought.

The biggest problem is how to visually identify what it is that you are looking at. I like the idea, maybe have a single unit, reduced in size, standing guard? Firaxis: good idea as a mod, but maybe not for vanilla Civ4... I like the basic icon idea for the generic gamer, just make it easy for us to modify as we want for individual preferences.

 

[DANGERBOY]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
I like it...but I have one incredibly minor concern of pure aesthetics. If you attack a unit that is just sitting there, the unit puts up much more of a fight than if you had actually caught them "with their pants down" in camp, so to speak.

Perhaps if there was a way to raise the defensive bonus of being fortified, you could lower all units' base defence so that you really couldn't afford to leave a unit just fidgeting somewhere drinking coffee and eating hardtack, unfortified.

Another Civ4 idea - ambush!

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. If it saves work in unit creation...it's a fantastic idea.

Well, units get a 25% bonus to base defense for fortifying, so that's already accounted for. Or are you proposing something more complicated?

 

[thestonesfan]

Dangerboy - This has come up before, but it never caught on like this. I remember seeing a preview of a "multiple unit" from Kryten or Smoking Mirror, or maybe someone else, a long time ago. Then I thought of Panzer General II, where each infantry unit had three guys in it, and how much better it looked than the one guy that People's General had. That's where I got my idea that Civ4 should implement it, and it was talked about in the short-lived but evidently influential "War in Civ4" thread. Not that I'm taking any credit for it, since all I did was bring it up again.

Someone had done a bunch of very cool Napoleonic units in this fashion, for a Civ2 scenario. I guess something just lit a fire under our collective butts to get it going now!

Anyway - There are lots of great ideas bouncing around in here, but I think we need to stay focused and take one thing at a time. We shouldn't overwhelm Kryten and whoever else can do it with requests for a virtually unlimited number of mixed units.

Ah...what the heck! Let 'em have it! I want a row of Pikemen with a row of Longbowmen behind them!

Oh, and about the fortification business, yeah, I was proposing something slightly more complicated. Just an adjustable setting in the "General Settings" screen in the editor, that you could raise or lower.

 

[DANGERBOY]

Good, I could have sworn there was something about it a while ago. Guess we just weren't ready for it then. I was starting to wonder if the upstairs neighbors were smoking something a little stronger than tobacco.

I thought you might be talking about more complicated, but wasn't sure exactly what it was. Figured the question would get you to clarify.

 

[alpha one]

I bow before you, Great Kryten! This looks GREAT!
This is how units should look like!
One question: how do you create your own units? I would be gratfull if you wrote how you do it!

 

[gael]

Look in the tudorals section, there are a few there on unit creation as well as a good cut'n'paste one from Kryten himself.

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by Redking
Now, here's the thought: while I like the notion of the grouped default/fidget just fine, perhaps it would shorten some of the labor (and eliminate the fidget also) if the default animations for these units were encampments, bivuacs, campfires, tent cities, etc. Smoke could rise, for visual interest.

Hmmm....nice idea....but not practical I'm afraid for the following reasons:-

You are playing a game of civ and the computer says it's your turn.
How are you going to tell that this little campfire is a unit of Spearmen, that little encampment is a unit of Archers, who are in those tents near that mountain, and which one of them is that old unit of Warriors that you were bringing back to your capital so that they can be upgraded?

Now we could have a Warrior figure sitting by a fire, or a Spearman standing by a tent, or a couple of archers making a pot of tea.....but this means MORE, not LESS work, as these new figure positions have to be created....and figure creation (even just trying to make someone kneel down), takes weeks!

So I think it best for the moment to just 'multiply' the existing figures and slap them on top of each other.

But who knows....maybe in the future someone could try this.

Originally posted by alpha one
One question: how do you create your own units? I would be gratfull if you wrote how you do it!

As gael said, have a look at this link....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=29026

....there should be enough in there to get you going.

To Radical Dreamer & gael,

Fear not, as I am currently writting a tutorial for 'multi figure' units.
("Yeah, and you might finish it if you stop answering questions Kryten!")

To Dangerboy,

Yes, of couse you may use my units in any way you want.
We need more ancient units!
As I have said before, "once you have downloaded them, they're yours!".

To my mate Steph,

This thread is a much yours as it is mine!
Without your help this project would never have got going.
Soon everyone will want a tool like you've got.
(You should see it....it's awesome!)

 

[The Troquelet]

Well, if someone "high-up" can talk to a moderator perhaps we can get this thing moving with the multi unit forum!..

I think the creation priority is converting old units first, but mixed units and forum-created units would also look cool!

 

[McClane]

Very good. It's better than only one unit.
We ne a mod!

 

[Civanator]

I'll be willing to make the camp animations, maybe a little one like a campfir and a tent, and one of the unit typ in the default animation standing outside the tent.

About Stronghold, I have that game and Windows XP Home Edition, so I might be able to help.

If anyone needs my help, i'll be willing to lend it.

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Kryten


Now we could have a Warrior figure sitting by a fire, or a Spearman standing by a tent, or a couple of archers making a pot of tea.....but this means MORE, not LESS work, as these new figure positions have to be created....and figure creation (even just trying to make someone kneel down), takes weeks!

Kryten Kryten Kryten, you must make the switch to 3d and soon. YOu are probably already amazing at cut and paste....

YOU must switch over.

We are so much happier than you in the 3d world

Turn from your ways, and be born again my son, into the love and warmth of a 3d program!


But seriously, take out 4 hours to learn to model, and with your cut and paste skills I am sure you'figure the rest out quite quickly.

You are obviously dedicated by all the cutting and pasting you've been doing..... I made a unit purely by cut and paste too... (the neomega assassin), and what a tremendous load of work it was. It took my 2 or 3 months to build, and now I could build a 10x better unit in 1 week. (And I plan on making a better one )

You have the talent, you have the ambition, you should switch.

The biggest problem is how to visually identify what it is that you are looking at. I like the idea, maybe have a single unit, reduced in size, standing guard? Firaxis: good idea as a mod, but maybe not for vanilla Civ4... I like the basic icon idea for the generic gamer, just make it easy for us to modify as we want for individual preferences.

I imagine civ 4 is going to look alot like Master of Magic II was going to. A 3-d map that you could zoom in on the units, zoom in on the cities, and watch the citizenry, maybe even talk to them like they are Non player characters in role playing games.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Kryten

Soon everyone will want a tool like you've got.
(You should see it....it's awesome!)

And now they shall see

I've wait a bit to have something nice looking, the first version was a bit ugly, and there was a flaw in the perspective, the new one is a lot better.

 

[pap1723]

WOW!

 

[Civanator]

That is amazing! Not to nag, but you should make 1 row of 2. I have many other ideas for it, but i don't want to pressure you too much.