AA02: Catherine's Aggressive Adventures

mystyfly · Apr 3, 2008

Played 1570AD - 1640AD, 14 turns
Here you go:

Inherited turn 334, 1570AD
I queue up some Hindu missionaries as several cities lack it.
Make this deal:

Start the Taj @ Moscow (by FAR our best prod city (due to Buerocracy):

Beg 70g from SB.
Whip two courts in ex-aztec cities.
See Joao is in WHEOOH-mode. And has some stacks near our border :hide:

Shall he come if he dares, we'll be prepared

(1) 1575AD
Spot an academy (nice way to waste a GSci):

Make a deal with Hannibal:

(2-3) 1580AD - 1585AD
zzz

(4) 1590AD
Spread Hinduism @ Tenochtitlan

(5) 1595AD
Beg 110g from Churchill.
Sell Engineering to Joao (he is 2 turns away) for 180g.

(6) 1600AD
Beg 70g from Hannibal.

(7) 1605AD
Wash demands Drama (I believe I agreed. Didn't want to piss him off for some reason. Then I remembered that he's a vassal :doh

.

(8) 1610AD
Spread Hinduism @ Lyons.
MM Moscow (MMM

) to get the Taj next turn:

(9) 1615AD
Taj finishes, GA starts.
Get a GM @ yaro (still there awaiting order to sacrifice himself (and his mate the GA) for another 15 turns of a booming russian economy).
Note: During a GA, yaro should hire a Engineer specialist instead of working a plains farm. It doesn't grow though.

(10) 1620AD
Beg 180g from Pacal.
Switch research to Banking.

(11) 1625AD
:doh:

(12) 1630AD
Spread Hinduism @ Tours.
Banking in:

IBT:
We get +1 diplo with Churchill due to an event.
Another event, of slightly more importance: Hannibal/Wash DOW Churchill (don't worry about him

, Churchill is currently the only one with Gunpowder. Protective Muskets are hell to kill w/o rifles).

(13) 1635AD
zzz

(14) 1640AD
Beg 150g from Hannibal.
PP in.
Effect of PP on our eco:

Spoiler :

---

Lots of comments:
Joao:
He has currently a SOD @ Santarem (8 Knights, 4 Maces, 3HAs, 5 XBows, 3 LBows, 1 Pike, 5 CR-cats. In Oporto he has 6 Barrage cats.
I built a spy and have more (one I believe) in production. We need more. Have commerce cities produce them (no need for barracks).
He has been stockpiling money for upgrades I think (but he'd need some techs first

). He's currently got ~650g in his treasury.

Civics:
We should switch to Merc this turn.
When we get rifling we'll want Nationalism.
Before we DOW Joao we should adopt Police state imo.
Sometime we should adopt Theo. Preferabely near the end of the GA.
Consider Caste System for quick border pops in newly captured cities (to get dom earlier) and for +1H from workshops. We don't need to whip that much anymore.

Techs:
We should go Economics and have one GM make a trade route (2 notes there: 1) wait with the mission until we really use the cash for upgrades 2) check how much we'd get in the ToA city. We probabely need a Caravel to get the GM there (no OB with Joao) so we should have our current GM ready for a long journey, going towards the english.
Pacal is currently 10 turns away from Eco.
After Eco, RP > Rifling.

GA:
10 turns left of the current GA, GM + GA ready to carry on. Arrange the GAs so we can make all those civic-changes (shouldn't be a problem). Next GP due in 7. Preferabely we DOW after the second GA finishes.

Religion:
1 Hindu missionary is on the way, 1 under construction, 2 cities only lack Hinduism now.

Cities:
Great work on specialization :goodjob:

however most cities have way more buildings than they need. Keep in mind to build as few buildings as possible (especially if we repeat this @ Emperor). Not every production city needs stables for example!
We could easily squeeze some more cities in but I doubt that'll happen. So you can chop those forests in no city's BFC.

Diplo:
We should keep Churchill happy and only war in the southern part of the world, for logistics sake. Also Churchill wont attack us soonish: 1) we're very powerful 2) he is in war 3) we're his buddies.

Research:
Without GA pretty pathetic considering our empire, but if you also consider our many production cities, this is ok. During GA, It clearly rocks. I have left ~1100g in treasury for quick research of Economics.

BTW during those 14 turns (epic) I begged for 580g. I love religious love-fests :lol:

Save
View attachment AA02 AD-1640.CivBeyondSwordSave

Some advisors + graphs + log will follow...
PS the game crashed when I opened the turnlog (used BUG v2.22).

mystyfly · Apr 3, 2008

Open GNP + MFG graphs at your own risk, they're scary! :lol:

Tech:

Spoiler :

Religion:

Spoiler :

GNP:

Spoiler :

MFG:

Spoiler :

LOG:

Spoiler :

pholkhero · Apr 3, 2008

phew ~ great turns; i'll need a day to process this, and respond, though.

more to come ~

great job on teh begging though. :goodjob:

Roster:
beserks01 >> on deck
Imhotep
pholkhero
mystyfly >> just played
negyvenketto >> UP NOW

Kikinit >> hiatus
robo kai >> hiatus

negyvenketto · Apr 4, 2008

Got it for the weekend.

pholkhero · Apr 4, 2008

mystyfly said:
Lots of comments:
Joao:
He has currently a SOD @ Santarem (8 Knights, 4 Maces, 3HAs, 5 XBows, 3 LBows, 1 Pike, 5 CR-cats. In Oporto he has 6 Barrage cats.
I built a spy and have more (one I believe) in production. We need more. Have commerce cities produce them (no need for barracks).
He has been stockpiling money for upgrades I think (but he'd need some techs first ). He's currently got ~650g in his treasury.

Civics:
We should switch to Merc this turn.
When we get rifling we'll want Nationalism.
Before we DOW Joao we should adopt Police state imo.
Sometime we should adopt Theo. Preferabely near the end of the GA.
Consider Caste System for quick border pops in newly captured cities (to get dom earlier) and for +1H from workshops. We don't need to whip that much anymore.

Techs:
We should go Economics and have one GM make a trade route (2 notes there: 1) wait with the mission until we really use the cash for upgrades 2) check how much we'd get in the ToA city. We probabely need a Caravel to get the GM there (no OB with Joao) so we should have our current GM ready for a long journey, going towards the english.
Pacal is currently 10 turns away from Eco.
After Eco, RP > Rifling.

GA:
10 turns left of the current GA, GM + GA ready to carry on. Arrange the GAs so we can make all those civic-changes (shouldn't be a problem). Next GP due in 7. Preferabely we DOW after the second GA finishes.

Religion:
1 Hindu missionary is on the way, 1 under construction, 2 cities only lack Hinduism now.

Cities:
Great work on specialization however most cities have way more buildings than they need. Keep in mind to build as few buildings as possible (especially if we repeat this @ Emperor). Not every production city needs stables for example!
We could easily squeeze some more cities in but I doubt that'll happen. So you can chop those forests in no city's BFC.

Diplo:
We should keep Churchill happy and only war in the southern part of the world, for logistics sake. Also Churchill wont attack us soonish: 1) we're very powerful 2) he is in war 3) we're his buddies.

Research:
Without GA pretty pathetic considering our empire, but if you also consider our many production cities, this is ok. During GA, It clearly rocks. I have left ~1100g in treasury for quick research of Economics.

BTW during those 14 turns (epic) I begged for 580g. I love religious love-fests

Save
View attachment 173187

Some advisors + graphs + log will follow...
PS the game crashed when I opened the turnlog (used BUG v2.22).

Joao has had those stacks hanging out for a while now, hence the fort down south. in fact, I first built the fort in my aborted "same-set" turns not too long ago, so they've been there even before we declared on him.

I'm guessing that, at this point, we are heading for a Dom win, and I've never truly taken advantage of Nationalism, i think that might be good to go. However, we WILL lose the beneifts of the happiness from HR which might throw our cities into disorder ~ er, unhappiness that is. I think once Joao is gone, the rest of this game will be mop-up. He's our only serious military competition (w/Pacal being the tech one). We can go ahead and eliminate these two threats, we'll be very close to ending the game, imo.

Not sure i agree on merc, though. I think we have plenty of foreign partners in the game for now where a swap would cause us to lose cash ~ for now, that is.

Other examples for too-many-bldg-itis? personally, as I usually only have a few prod cities, i build stables in all of them. But as some of them are very low-hammer (compartively) i can see the use of this. Again, though, waht other bldgs do you mean??

also, 'twere this an SP game, I would declare during the GAge ~ nothing like being able to rush needed units rather quickly to make the difference, but it doesn't matter one way or the other with me. I still like the idea of declaring on him and seeing what (if anything) he moves out of his cities. If we can get him on our turf and level his army, it'd be smooth sailing through his empire.

as far as techs are concerned, we don't have gunpowder right? So, I think we should get that before Rifling ~ can we even GET rifling w/o it? if not, that's not right!! Then again, i might think we should go with Military Science for Grenadiers and then Steel for canons. The AI really like Rifling, and going up against their fortified CG rifles with Rifles and cats doesn't seem appealing to me.

All in all, though, great report, and discussion! :goodjob:

I (we) appreciate it!!

mystyfly · Apr 5, 2008

as far as techs are concerned, we don't have gunpowder right? So, I think we should get that before Rifling ~ can we even GET rifling w/o it? if not, that's not right!! Then again, i might think we should go with Military Science for Grenadiers and then Steel for canons. The AI really like Rifling, and going up against their fortified CG rifles with Rifles and cats doesn't seem appealing to me.

We don't have gunpowder. But I don't think Joao has a chance to reach rifling. We'll be miles ahead. Pacal might get rifling but he's unlikely to do any real damange. Once we've finished Joao we'll have cannons (I suggest we go straight towards steel after rifling) and thus his few rifles will be toast. With Joaos, Pacals and our empire we might already hit dom limits.
I also think we should make peace with Pacal once he breaks free from joao to prevent him from vassalizing (to reduce the chance that is).
We might consider building a crapcity near the portuguese border and hopefully he'll capture it and move his stack into. We have lots of CR-promos

Examples for overbuilding? Sooo many inland cities have walls and castles. Walls on their own are pretty useless unless on the border and castles inland are imo not worth it (unless protective maybe). Also I noted that in general there are maaaaaany buildings in those cities but I didn't look closer.
I usually have only 2-3 cities with stables.
Our commerce cities should build banks as soon as they finish what they're doing btw

Don't hesitate to chop them.

negyvenketto · Apr 5, 2008

Maybe I'm violating SG rules here not stopping at the most natural point (getting rifling) but the turns were pretty long after Joao declared on us I run out of time

I started with civics change (we are in GA) (the others unchanged: HR, Bure, Slavery)

Turn 349: Started Heroic Epic in Moscow

Turn 352: We got the GM from Economics, and another in GP farm in Turn 355 :cry:

The fun begins :devil:

Sorry I haven't made screenshots of his SoD, but you can judge from the log, it was quite big. Thanks to the previous players I had troops nearby and after softening it up with catas, cleared most of it on the first turn.

My answer for this insult was ...

Turn 358: The GAge continues for another 15 turns

(GM+GA)

The fight was intense so far, we got 2 GGs (1 settled in Moscow, the other formed a super medic with an explorer, the GG pike was attacked an killed in Santarem :mad:

)

The power graph is nice to see

Oporto is being sieged up North

While troops are healing South after survived a counter attack. I'm not sure why started walls ... can be changed.

Only Ruff knows why every battle now takes up 2 lines in the log, so I had to split it up (extended 30k chars).

Spoiler :

negyvenketto · Apr 5, 2008

Log continues

Spoiler :

negyvenketto · Apr 5, 2008

Oh, almost forgot to mention. I sent 1 of our GMs to England, he can get around 1650 :gold:

will be handy for upgrading to rifles.
Researched: Economics, Gunpowder, Replaceable Parts, Riffling (4 turns to go).
Have fun

ruff_hi · Apr 5, 2008

negyvenketto said:
Only Ruff knows why every battle now takes up 2 lines in the log, so I had to split it up (extended 30k chars).

I put in some code to try and capture when a siege unit withdraws. There are two reasons for withdrawal ... 1) it has done max damage and 2) it runs away just before being killed.

Turn 355/750 (1675 AD) [05-Apr-2008 11:28:34]
While attacking, Trebuchet 7 of Moscow (Trebuchet) escapes from Portuguese Knight (Prob Victory: 15.4%)
While attacking in Portuguese territory at Santarém, Trebuchet 7 of Moscow (Trebuchet) loses to Portuguese Knight (4.90/10) (Prob Victory: 15.4%)

Obviously these are reports from the same event. It looks like the treb was actually killed.

While attacking, Trebuchet 2 of Moscow (Trebuchet) escapes from Portuguese Knight (Prob Victory: 17.1%)

This looks like the treb ran away just before dying.

While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Portuguese Knight (Prob Victory: 67.3%)
While attacking, Trebuchet 5 of Novgorod (Trebuchet) decimates Portuguese Musketman (Prob Victory: 42.6%)
While attacking, Trebuchet 6 of Rheims (Trebuchet) decimates Portuguese Knight (Prob Victory: 94.4%)

Trebs do max damage.

I shouldn't have these withdrawal messages for non-siege - I will update the logger. Thanks for the testing

mystyfly · Apr 5, 2008

nice one

Berserkers is up!

small correction: most of those units @ phort pholk where moved there by... pholk

I can't look at the save atm but if we should run into more trouble we should have our sod wait in a city until rifling comes in to upgrade. Joao has the Chicken Pizza which doesn't work vs riflemen.

I think the next few sets will be mop up moving further east until we get dom.

berserks01 · Apr 5, 2008

Got it. Should be able to play sometime this weekend. Looks like the war continues for me

negyvenketto · Apr 5, 2008

ruff_hi said:
I shouldn't have these withdrawal messages for non-siege - I will update the logger. Thanks for the testing

You are welcome

mystyfly · Apr 6, 2008

@ruff: Yesterday I spent some thoughts on improving the log.
Is it possible that you can log it when you:
give in to a demand (and what)
don't give in to a demand (and what)
give a gift (and what)
don't give a gift (and what)
make a trade (and what)
ask for a gift (what & if successful)
ask for tribute (what % if successful)
?

I'd also be happy to test it

ruff_hi · Apr 6, 2008

mystyfly said:
@ruff: Yesterday I spent some thoughts on improving the log.
Is it possible that you can log it when you:
give in to a demand (and what)
don't give in to a demand (and what)
give a gift (and what)
don't give a gift (and what)
make a trade (and what)
ask for a gift (what & if successful)
ask for tribute (what % if successful)
?

I'd also be happy to test it

There is a 'gold trade' event. As far as I can tell - that is the only trade related event. We might be able to play around with some of the other events (ie tech discovered) and testing if it is the players turn (that would lead to "AI #1 gets tech from player" type messages) but these might be buggy.

I'm away for a week but I might have internet access - I will give it some thought.

berserks01 · Apr 6, 2008

Took a quick look through our cities. Did a little MM to work better tiles, but that's about it.

Burnt the GM in London for 1650g.

The bombardment of Oporto finally finished, and we rushed in with 3 suicide trebs ( which all 3 withdrew

) and took it with no further loses.

Rifling comes in, I select MT next.

A GE is born in Moscow, he will sit there with the GM already there for a team decision.

Red faces getting out of hand, so made a tour of our cities and applied the whip whereever necessary.

Coimbra falls with no loss

Lagos also falls with no loss thanks to our brand new rifles

Apostlistic Palaces wants to end the war with Hannible

but Hannible shot down that idea.

Joao tried to retake Oporto, but was beaten down. He's mustering a stack right now for some action.

We got a good event

Rifling came in, I set research to Chem next. Started Oxford at Rostov, currently our highest scientific city.

Hanibal came with a demand. I turned him down. [forgot the screenshot here]

Sitting Bull also came with a demand and was also shot down.

Took Evora with no loss, and got a GG out of it as well. He's also sitting in Moscow waiting for orders.

Lisbon falls with the loss of 4 trebs.

On my last turn Hannibal made peace with everyone.

We can keep pushing forward with the war til it's over. I've built us enough trebs for siege and we're pumping out cossacks and rifles, so it should be just mop up from here on out. Redfaces are getting to be a problem, so next player should keep an eye out for them being a problem.

pholkhero · Apr 8, 2008

wow ~ great turns all! I went unexpectantly OoP this weekend due to a logistics foul-up with changing my IP. oh well ~

I say we continue the war unabated, and save the two GPs in hopes ew get a third one for ANOTHER 15 turns of GAge! (We ARE still in it, right??)

Roster:
beserks01 >> just played
Imhotep >> UP NOW
pholkhero >> on deck
mystyfly
negyvenketto

Kikinit >> hiatus
robo kai >> hiatus

berserks01 · Apr 8, 2008

We are. I was just about to give this thread a bump myself

·Imhotep· · Apr 9, 2008

Got it for some SBS (slashing baby seals

) ...

ruff_hi · Apr 9, 2008

has anyone noticed that BtS seems to pick BtS leaders nearly all the time - is there a 'random leader selector' tool somewhere or do I have to write my own?

AA02: Catherine's Aggressive Adventures

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