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Accurate Earth Map in development

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by kevinman4404, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Well, we could amend the idea a bit. Scale down ship models to realistic sizes, limit which ships can enter with a boolean Navigable tag in UnitInfos.XML...hmm. I suddenly want to try this.

    Maybe write a quick piece of code:

    if (ship.isNavigable(plotnumber))
    {
    //some code to shift ship animation either to bottom or right of tile here
    }
     
  2. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    @Gooblah: I don't get what you mean by shift the ship's animation to bottom or right
    We can certainly try it out on some major rivers but if included in the very distant final release, it needs to look decent

    ~~~

    I am now able to run Mapview properly (thank you Greyhound) and progress has resumed. Although I cannot run civ4 until I have a new computer early August, this sets me on track for a

    BETA RELEASE: August 31 (hosted on an external download site)
    OFFICIAL RELEASE: October 31

    This also depends on getting much-needed input for Wintermod and Summermod

    I will post pictures of new resources/features/graphical improvements as they arrive
    Today I have finished half of the previously remaining resource placements

    Kevin
     
  3. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Well, rivers always run to the bottom or right of a tile. Thus, if one shunts a ship's animation to the bottom or right of a tile, and shrinks the size of the ship down -> it'll look like it's at least partially on the river.
     
  4. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    A necessary bump for Kevin to resume the work on the map.
     
  5. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    coincidentally, that bump was exactly when I resumed work on the map. New computer is set up and everything is working wonderfully in-game.

    Remaining Resource Placement: 90% complete
    Now finished: better goat model, cork
    Coming Soon: AMAZING water graphic (best out there byfar)
    Still to-do: Peanuts, Soy/Root Crops etc. (if I include them)
    Once did but need to redo due to missing files: Widen map

    Alpha release: August 31st (map complete, wintermod/summermod/floodmod/icemod essentially complete, domestication)
    Beta release: October 31st (fixes/improvements from feedback, semi-animation for unanimated resources)
    Final release: unknown (full animation)
     
  6. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    Goat Resource:


    (unfortunately I cannot make any of them white... and the file is huge (>2Mb) and may end up being removed)

    Water in it's VERY early stages:





    Also, please let me know if you feel any resource(s) can be removed/streamlined. For example, should goats be represented under sheep or do they have something individually to offer? Please let me know any streamlining/deleting suggestions as the less resources I have to animate the better.

    A list of resources, and ones I have to animate (blue font colour) can be found on civjunction (link in sig)
     
  7. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    This is the eight items I rated the worse i.e. 1/10 :
    Clay
    Coral
    Cork
    Fodder
    Nutrients
    Obsidian
    Papyrus
    Rubber

    If any, I will delete Fodder first because it's just an intermediate goods that is better represented within cows, pigs, sheeps, horses, ...
    I will try to do an elaborate post on every non-10/10 item later in this day.
     
  8. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    My resource list (involving elimination of: Amber, Cedar, Clay, Coral, Cork, Fodder, Fruit, Goats, Ivory (N), Mercury, Poultry, Root Crops, Stone, Timber):

    Spoiler :
    Aluminum/Bauxite/Chromite
    Banana
    Bison
    Cacao
    Camels
    Cattle
    Coal
    Coconuts
    Coffee
    Copper
    Corn/Maize
    Cotton
    Dates
    Diamonds
    Dye
    Fish
    Flax
    Fur
    Gas
    Gems
    Gold
    Hemp
    Horses
    Incense
    Iron
    Ivory
    Jade
    Jute
    Lead
    Marble
    Mercury
    Nickel
    Obsidian
    Oil
    Olives
    Opium
    Papyrus
    Peanuts
    Pearls
    Platinum
    Potatoes
    Reindeer
    Rice
    Rubber
    Salt
    Seal
    Shellfish
    Sheep (incl. Goats)
    Silk
    Silver
    Spices
    Stone
    Sugar Cane
    Sulphur
    Sunflowers
    Swine
    Tea
    Tin
    Tobacco
    Uranium
    Whale
    Wheat
    Wine
    Wolfram


    Rationale:
    Cedar/Timber = forests
    Fruit, Clay, Fodder, Roots, Stone = too general and basically everywhere.
    Coral = make into terrain feature (+1 :commerce:)
    Goats = include with Sheep. Close enough.
    Ivory (N) = what is this?
    The rest = the map has enough resources as it is. Creating a world map with every single important resource that has affected the life of man in a profound manner woudl lead to every tile with a resource, which I find unfun.
     
  9. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    Spoiler :
    okay, i will reply again once you do

    I still like the idea of stone/clay etc. being resources you can discover through a quarry. This has so many good potential uses.

    Ivory (north) LOL is exactly what it sounds like, if you're desperate for Ivory you can go into the arctic and grab some walrus tusks. I know it sounds silly. It WILL be deleted, especially since the deletion of Inuit as a civ.

    Cedar would likely stay, for its potential uses, but this is not confirmed
    Fruit will almost definitely go. Less artwork for me to do.
    Roots, probably.
    Coral, will as you said, become a feature.

    I can confirm the deletion of nutrients.

    Obsidian, rubber are way too important to be removed (but just in case, what is your rationale?). Papyrus likely won't be removed, but I'll consider it (not the most important of resources).

    Fodder is a tricky one. Useful for Scandinavian economy and has a unique effect. However, it is true that you can make it pretty much anywhere. @Snipperrabbit: what do you mean by "better represented within cows, pigs etc."? Shouldn't civs with fodder have more nourishing livestock than those without?

    OTHER QUESTIONS

    @Gooblah: interesting- no goats caz they're sheep, no cedar caz it's wood, but you want bison which is essentially a cow?

    @Snipperrabbit: does this mean you agree with inclusion of goats?

    Since sheep can produce cheese too I have a feeling goats will be absorbed by sheep.

    All other resources you mentioned but I did not mention here are under consideration.


    just my musings... waiting for your other post before I say anything definitive
     
  10. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    ...but very pretty already! :goodjob:

    Cheers, LT.
     
  11. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    Cork (if included):



    (such a good idea for cork artwork)

    While it is kind of not important, it does have a unique effect, and there wouldn't be a lot of them, just a couple in Morocco and maybe Spain. But it still likely will end up deleted.

    @Lord Tirian: thanks!
     
  12. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    1
    • Clay
      This is just earth melted with water. Already featured by any fresh water tile, IMO. Perhaps a city building -CB- " brick worshop " can provide a small bonus to building prod per each fresh water tile in city vicinity.
    • Coral
      As suggested, This will be far better as a tile feature. I envision already a " ? preserve " on top.
    • Cork
      What ? This without a corkscrew ! No way !
    • Fodder
      Like said previously, where the fodder grows the fodder is eaten ! There is very few place I know of where fodder is cultivated on its own.
    • Nutrients
      What's that ! Is it a SMAC thing. I have no clue why this resource is listed and will prefer ten times a "game" resource with boar as a gfx.
    • Obsidian
      Very minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else.
    • Papyrus
      Here , I will recycle the comment about clay and just replace fresh water tile by floodplains and made it a small bonus to blobal research per currently worked Fp .
    • Rubber
      It didn't lasted that long until the tree collected rubber was replaced by the artificial rubber. I suggest to represent it as a building generated
    2
    • Amber
      Very minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else.
    • Flax
      Very minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else.
    • Platinum
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    • Root Crops
      Very minor IME. Must be scrapped entirely
    • Wolfram
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    3
    • Coconuts
    • Jute
    • Mercury
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    • Nickel
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    4
    • Citrus Fruit
    • Dates
    • Opium
    5
    • Hemp
    • Lead
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    • Sunflower
    • Lumber
    6
    • Walrus
    • Peanuts
    • Seal
    • Tin
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    7
    • Bison
    • Jade
    • Olives
    • Potatoes
    • Shellfish
    • Sulphur
    8
    • Banana
    • Fruit
    • Gas
    • Gems
    • Poultry
    9
    • Cedar
    • Goats
    • Salt

    OK ! Still a WIP post but I drop it now and will expand it later ...
     
  13. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    DELETED:

    Nutrients (potassium, etc.)
    Root Crops

    LIKELY TO BE DELETED:

    Cork
    Fodder (Scandinavians I think grow it for profit...)

    UNDER CONSIDERATION:

    Papyrus
    Amber
    Platinum
    Flax
    Wolfram
    Coconuts
    Jute
    Mercury
    Hemp

    CHANGES:

    Coral is now a feature
    Again, I emphasize that clay and stone will not take up any room, but I will consider deleting them

    STUFF I WON'T OUTRIGHT DELETE:

    Obsidian (so important for Mesoamerica, natives, and has its uses... anyways what would I merge it into?
    Rubber (shortlived but of high value; big colonial resource... however I'll do some more research on this one)
    Tin (huge Asian/colonial resource)

    What were your ideas for merges? even if I denied deletion, I would still consider merging resources
    And you think goats should exist independently? Is there any difference between them and sheep?

    Kevin
     
  14. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Now that I understand your quarry idea a bit better (building a quarry may lead to discovery of clay or stone), here is a suggestion or two:

    Quarry:
    -Can be built on flat tile (+1 :hammers:)
    -Can be built on hills (+2 :hammers:)
    -Each Quarry built in a BFC increases Wonder production by 10%
    -City can have maximum of 5 quarries

    Mine:
    -Can be built only on hills (+2 :hammers:)
    -small chance of discovering: Gold, Silver, Gems, Aluminum/Bauxite/Chlorite, Platinum, etc.
     
  15. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    @gooblah: the changes sound fine; is the quarry discovering stone/clay/etc. acceptable? I noticed it wasn't on the list, though you mentioned it

    thank you both for your help so far

    (and please don't be discouraged if I reject anything... and in some cases I just have to do more research, ie rubber)
     
  16. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    I kinda liked snipperrabbit!!!'s Brick Workshop, but in its current stage, it would be a bit hard to implement. My suggestion would be making it like an early levee -> +1:hammers: to each riverside tile. Considering that you're upscaling hammer costs and stuff, it should be balanced out just fine.
     
  17. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    Alright, I'll give something liek that a whirl, instead of clay. Won't guarantee it but I'll stick that in the N.A. test map. You're right, that would be easy.
    EDIT: wait, what other effects does clay have in real life? and we'd need a wonder production bonus, especially for most african wonders

    Now, what about stone, marble, etc.? Should quarry have a chance of discovering those?
     
  18. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    1
    • Clay
      This is just earth melted with water. Already featured by any fresh water tile, IMO. Perhaps a city building -CB- " brick worshop " can provide a small bonus to building prod per each fresh water tile in city vicinity.
    • Coral
      As suggested, This will be far better as a tile feature. I envision already a " (insert name here) preserve " on top.
    • Cork
      What ? This without a corkscrew ! No way !
    • Fodder
      Like said previously, where the fodder grows the fodder is eaten ! There is very few place I know of where fodder is cultivated on its own. Thinking back about it, ..., it just shows how bad is the norwegian agriculture is : they can't raise cattle because of the lack of cereals in quantity and quality because everywhere else with fodder and sufficient cereals cattle raising is a no-brainer economically. In fact, a fodder resource must decrease food output.
    • Nutrients
      What's that ! Is it a SMAC thing. I have no clue why this resource is listed and will prefer ten times a "game" resource with boar as a gfx.
    • Obsidian
      Very minor IME. May be merged with sthg else like Jade.
    • Papyrus
      Here , I will recycle the comment about clay and just replace fresh water tile by floodplains and made it a small bonus to global research per currently worked Fp .
    • Rubber
      It didn't lasted that long until the tree collected rubber was replaced by the artificial rubber and it appears quite late in the game. I suggest to represent it as a building generated resource.
    2
    • Amber
      Very minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else or scrapped.
    • Flax
      Very minor IME. Must be replaced by what they are worth for i.e. Clothes and the EU resource drawn as an ankle.
    • Platinum
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    • Root Crops
      Very minor IME. Must be scrapped entirely !
    • Wolfram
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    3
    • Coconuts
      Moderately minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else involving palm trees i.e. Coconuts, Dates, Palm Oil, ...
    • Jute
      Very minor IME. Must be replaced by what they are worth for i.e. Clothes and the EU resource drawn as an ankle.
    • Mercury
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    • Tin
      Very minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    4
    • Citrus Fruit
      Maybe useable to prevent scorbut, this is quite expendable.
    • Dates
      Moderately minor IME. Must be merged with sthg else involving palm trees i.e. Coconuts, Dates, Palm Oil, ...
    • Opium
      I found this one very offensive. May appear ONLY in the top two poorest civilizations and have an high rate of depletion and respawn.
    5
    • Lead
      Moderately minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics. By the way, 5 means I've not made my mind whether it's good to have whether not.
    • Sunflower
      I don't know. I understand why it is here in the first place but I fail to find a particular specificity. "Only for Standard Ethanol we must keep", Yoda said.
    • Lumber
      That's just a selective process : "which tree is better to grow and saw ?". There is nothing particular about it either
    6
    • Walrus
      aka Ivory North :lol:
    • Seal
      I rated Seal and Walrus the same for a total of 12. It shows that an herd of little animals on the Ice is sorely needed for CIV but there is only room for one. A merge is the best and I can see an aquatic park (available to the 5 largest coastal cities) needing this resource.
    • Peanuts
    • Nickel
      Moderately minor IME. Must be merged into sthg broader for metallics.
    7
    • Bison
    • Jade
    • Olives
    • Potatoes
    • Shellfish
    • Sulphur
    8
    • Banana
    • Fruit
    • Gas
    • Gems
    • Poultry
    9
    • Cedar
    • Goats
    • Salt
    • Hemp
      Although I previously rated it a 5, I consider it quasi-unavoidable !

    Bah ! It seems I'm a little slow these times ... sorry for the still WIP post :sad:
     
  19. kevinman4404

    kevinman4404 Lightning Warrior

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    Thanks! Keep up the great work so far

    But just so I understand, why do you find opium offensive, and what do you mean by high depletion/respawn?
    I just thought it neccessary historically, ie opium wars, though I recognize its lack of value as a resource
     
  20. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    I wold keep opium in one or two places.

    If a Civ gets Opium through trade, 1 :) per Opium, but -1 healthiness.
    If a Civ has Opium in its territory, -2 :unhealthiness:
    Civs value Opium highly until the Modern Era.
     

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