moopoo
King
Maybe stone shouldn't be a resource...?
Accurate Earth Map in development
- Thread starter kevinman4404
- Start date
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@Snipperrabbit, I think that is a fantastic idea! At least, something along those lines, so anyone please let me know if you have any suggestions. And I also agree with keeping cedar and marble seperate.
Do you know how I could do the 1-tile minimum distance?
Anyways, Moopoo, this would be kind of like saying there's no stone resource, kind of. It's good for wonders though, outside of which there's no use really
EDIT: It will be tricky to do, though. Let's plan how we could organize the resources...
ToBeDiscovered:
Stone(and generic building materials)
Already existing:
Clay
Marble
Cedar/Lumber
I would like clay seperate as although clay can be found almost anywhere, in some places, like in Africa, it is a lot more prevalent and can extremely easily be used for building/pottery, without having to go into the ground much, I am guessing.
I would also make the chances of finding stone/building materials pretty decent. Though perhaps it would speed up wonders only in increments, not an immediate doubling of speed.
Are there any suggestions for changes to this, or on overall what should be done?
Kevin
Do you know how I could do the 1-tile minimum distance?
Anyways, Moopoo, this would be kind of like saying there's no stone resource, kind of. It's good for wonders though, outside of which there's no use really
EDIT: It will be tricky to do, though. Let's plan how we could organize the resources...
ToBeDiscovered:
Stone(and generic building materials)
Already existing:
Clay
Marble
Cedar/Lumber
I would like clay seperate as although clay can be found almost anywhere, in some places, like in Africa, it is a lot more prevalent and can extremely easily be used for building/pottery, without having to go into the ground much, I am guessing.
I would also make the chances of finding stone/building materials pretty decent. Though perhaps it would speed up wonders only in increments, not an immediate doubling of speed.
Are there any suggestions for changes to this, or on overall what should be done?
Kevin
moopoo
King
I like the Idea of having Clay, Stone, maybe Marble, Lumber, Cedars as semi-resources, where having each one will speed up certain constructions by 5-10%. EG a temple might use stone and cedar, so having both of those will allow you to build it 20% faster. A Dock might use Lumber, Cedar and Clay (or whatever), and having all of 'em gets you a 30% bonus. The main change would be that all buildings would have at least one of these modifiers.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@Moopoo: that's the idea
@LastOne36: Here are the two concerned sections of Venezuala. Note that the graphics, shadows and water are messed up, but that's because once I make changes I hate to reopen the map to see the new graphics properly. This takes a long time to do, so I didn't bother.
I could not grant you a wheat or corn, as there was not enough of either now or back in colonization times.
Also, my forest cover was very close; I am using original, not modern, forest cover. However there were a bunch of tiles of forest I removed- there's a thin line in the Venezuelan plain and a tad NE of it that was originally treeless.
I fixed the over-exaggerated mountain range to the east. Mount Bolivar was already there, but I fixed the shape/positioning of that streak of mountains. The mountains in the east will still seem big; they are a fair bit less tall, but they meet my height requirements. So in a way it is a bit of an unavoidable misrepresentation that makes that one seem larger. The mountains by Mt. Bolivar are tall but the range is very thin.
@Grishnash, I'll get the traits to you asap
NOTICE: Imageshack is screwing up. I cannot view the images, as I guess the site is not working. Consequently, the url I gave to the image is not working either. Please check back soon
@LastOne36: Here are the two concerned sections of Venezuala. Note that the graphics, shadows and water are messed up, but that's because once I make changes I hate to reopen the map to see the new graphics properly. This takes a long time to do, so I didn't bother.
I could not grant you a wheat or corn, as there was not enough of either now or back in colonization times.
Also, my forest cover was very close; I am using original, not modern, forest cover. However there were a bunch of tiles of forest I removed- there's a thin line in the Venezuelan plain and a tad NE of it that was originally treeless.
I fixed the over-exaggerated mountain range to the east. Mount Bolivar was already there, but I fixed the shape/positioning of that streak of mountains. The mountains in the east will still seem big; they are a fair bit less tall, but they meet my height requirements. So in a way it is a bit of an unavoidable misrepresentation that makes that one seem larger. The mountains by Mt. Bolivar are tall but the range is very thin.
@Grishnash, I'll get the traits to you asap
NOTICE: Imageshack is screwing up. I cannot view the images, as I guess the site is not working. Consequently, the url I gave to the image is not working either. Please check back soon
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
I'm supposed to but I don't.
Also, images are now fixed
Also, images are now fixed
snipperrabbit!!
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3,396
Wow ! That hurts ! You may want to reduce the lighting of the jungle a little bit, no.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
The only tea resource still in existance I have, but is an exact clone of tobacco. I will make one if need be. I ask that you ask Master Lexx if he still has his own tea resource (which for some stupid reason he took out of his mod and he hasn't provided downloads to any old versions). Let me know if he does and you get ahold of it. But check that it's different from tobacco; I think it would be.
As for the jungle, I will look into it; it is the colour of jungles in Colon., but I know my colours don't seem quite the same, so I may change it...
~~~
Please check out the North American leaderheads and flags in the main forum (which is my mod's section in CivJunction; you can find a link on the 1st page of my mod's thread, which is linked in the first page). Let me know any comments/suggestions
Kevin
As for the jungle, I will look into it; it is the colour of jungles in Colon., but I know my colours don't seem quite the same, so I may change it...
~~~
Please check out the North American leaderheads and flags in the main forum (which is my mod's section in CivJunction; you can find a link on the 1st page of my mod's thread, which is linked in the first page). Let me know any comments/suggestions
Kevin
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
Fair point, but at the same time, a lot of them were centered around one city. If I find the earlier pictures of Central America I'll show them to you to hear your opinion
@DVS420- finishing the map is my current priority and will be the next major update to my mod. I still have to make a 2-3 resources and a new coral. I also have to find some data for resources I have not yet placed. I don't know when exactly it will be ready but it should be soon.
@DVS420- finishing the map is my current priority and will be the next major update to my mod. I still have to make a 2-3 resources and a new coral. I also have to find some data for resources I have not yet placed. I don't know when exactly it will be ready but it should be soon.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
I have filled in a lot of missing resources. However, I now face a huge dilemna that may require the complete replacement of resources.
Am I just going to crowd up all the resources that existed historically and today, or am I going to have historical/colonial resources, then have them fade away one by one while modern ones start appearing. I really need some suggestions on how I should run these resources. Historical and modern resources combined can be a little crowded/disproportionate, but I'd like to hear your views on it.
Also, should unimproved resources provide a bonus? If so, which? I do not want all providing an initial bonus, as resources like uranium obv. dont do anything without a mine, and the discovery of fission. However, a resource like olives, might, as you don't really need a plantation to reap the benefits, although it increases production of them.
Here is a world preview (with the new terrains):
Note: St. Helena (and possibly more islands) has/have since been added, and the islands in Scandinavia have been fixed (to how they should be).
Another question, which do you like more for the swamp graphic?
A:
B:
Kevin
Am I just going to crowd up all the resources that existed historically and today, or am I going to have historical/colonial resources, then have them fade away one by one while modern ones start appearing. I really need some suggestions on how I should run these resources. Historical and modern resources combined can be a little crowded/disproportionate, but I'd like to hear your views on it.
Also, should unimproved resources provide a bonus? If so, which? I do not want all providing an initial bonus, as resources like uranium obv. dont do anything without a mine, and the discovery of fission. However, a resource like olives, might, as you don't really need a plantation to reap the benefits, although it increases production of them.
Here is a world preview (with the new terrains):
Note: St. Helena (and possibly more islands) has/have since been added, and the islands in Scandinavia have been fixed (to how they should be).
Another question, which do you like more for the swamp graphic?
A:
B:
Kevin
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
So far B is in the lead (I have no opinion), and I REALLY need opinions on which way I should do the resources. This will impact how the game will work and when it will be released. I am slightly leaning to two sets of resources which slightly overlap, as I described. However I am open to both solutions, and would liek to hear which you guys like.
So preferably two more opinions on the swamp (and then I'll make up my mind on my vote) and 4 opinions on the resources (after which I will again decide on my vote to add to the mix so it's an odd number).
I'm especially interested in the opinion of moopoo and lastone36, who both said they really like the swamp i showed in the terrain strip picture. I think they both now make good candidates for a swamp graphic
Kevin
So preferably two more opinions on the swamp (and then I'll make up my mind on my vote) and 4 opinions on the resources (after which I will again decide on my vote to add to the mix so it's an odd number).
I'm especially interested in the opinion of moopoo and lastone36, who both said they really like the swamp i showed in the terrain strip picture. I think they both now make good candidates for a swamp graphic
Kevin
gazius
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2007
- Messages
- 117
If my opinion is considered of any worth, I would probably have stone integrated into buildings and terrain somehow. If you are building in, say, Italy, or some other location near hilly and mountainous terrain, it would be safe to presume that you are using stone or lumber, or a city production material such as concrete. If you are in the desert or waste terrain, presumably you'll be working with clay such as Africa. If we look at Egypt, there are probably some mountains or at least hills to draw stone from to build pyramids. Marble on the other hand is not common either and would work well as a resource.
How do you treat cedar, or any kind of wood resource already if you have it? Harvesting some trees from a forest tile is different from mass harvesting the tile. If possible, you may want to have an exhaustible resource which may be require a building or tech or civic to replenish the forest, otherwise you'll end up in a situation where you have to find new territory to find valuable lumber. From my understanding of history, a source of lumber in southern Syria, (or in that region, my memory of the area is a bit hazy, maybe it's in Israel) there was a valuable forest grove Seleucia and Ptolemy fought over. If you make forests exhaustible for resources, I would do the same with mines, as eventually the mines of Spain were exhausted with Roman techniques, and only once the Arabs had come with new techniques to extract more ore were those mines productive again.
If I may move on to other resources, I'd also roll common crops grown together in a region into one generic name. So for example you may have Rice, this would represent whatever other grain is grown similiar in the region in Asia to represent that, while it may be common, it is separate from what Europeans grew. Similar with other grown foods, animals I would keep as a separate resource unique from the landscape. But if a particular resource is common to a terrain, I would suggest just treating the terrain occupied as giving a bonus where it can be done plausibly. Just a thought anyhow.
How do you treat cedar, or any kind of wood resource already if you have it? Harvesting some trees from a forest tile is different from mass harvesting the tile. If possible, you may want to have an exhaustible resource which may be require a building or tech or civic to replenish the forest, otherwise you'll end up in a situation where you have to find new territory to find valuable lumber. From my understanding of history, a source of lumber in southern Syria, (or in that region, my memory of the area is a bit hazy, maybe it's in Israel) there was a valuable forest grove Seleucia and Ptolemy fought over. If you make forests exhaustible for resources, I would do the same with mines, as eventually the mines of Spain were exhausted with Roman techniques, and only once the Arabs had come with new techniques to extract more ore were those mines productive again.
If I may move on to other resources, I'd also roll common crops grown together in a region into one generic name. So for example you may have Rice, this would represent whatever other grain is grown similiar in the region in Asia to represent that, while it may be common, it is separate from what Europeans grew. Similar with other grown foods, animals I would keep as a separate resource unique from the landscape. But if a particular resource is common to a terrain, I would suggest just treating the terrain occupied as giving a bonus where it can be done plausibly. Just a thought anyhow.
Second, I vote for option B for the terrain and I'm also thinking that two sets of resources which slightly overlap should work fine.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@Gazius: Thank you for the suggestions
Whether you discover clay or stone or marble etc. will be entirely or largely based on either region or terrain.
Regarding exhaustible resources, how would this be possible unless resources are quantitized? Some other modders are already working on that, but what's the point in exhausting resources that you either just "have" or "don't have"? It would have to supply you with something (ie 10 tons/iron a year, and units etc would require a certain amount if part of their armour etc is made of iron). This way you could choose how heavily to gather resources from a given mine, etc., and determine how quickly it becomes depleted. Most likely I'll have to wait and see if I can somehow incorporate quantitization
It seems the last idea would be a huge reduction. Animals I will likely make seperate from the terrain (meaning they may move around... I forget which resource sparked this requirement). But likely I will not be able to combine the common crops. It will depend on how similar a set of resources is. I cannot combine a single resource that has a unique effect on the civ or that has units, buildings, etc. requiring that specific resource. I am trying to give each resource that I include a valid, unique function.
I need one more vote for the swamp and three more for resources. I am so undecided on resources especially that I need several other opinions on this.
And here's my map to-do/priority list:
1) Create a version of my map cleared of all resources
2) Finish Tea resource
3) Finish Coral feature
4) Finish Wintermod
5) Setup the stone/clay etc. system
as well as fill in missing resources
Unless I am forgetting stuff I really wanted included, this will likely be what I squeeze in before I release the map. Terraces and fjords, for example, will likely wait until later, as I am going to need to plan out how to do them.
Kevin
Whether you discover clay or stone or marble etc. will be entirely or largely based on either region or terrain.
Regarding exhaustible resources, how would this be possible unless resources are quantitized? Some other modders are already working on that, but what's the point in exhausting resources that you either just "have" or "don't have"? It would have to supply you with something (ie 10 tons/iron a year, and units etc would require a certain amount if part of their armour etc is made of iron). This way you could choose how heavily to gather resources from a given mine, etc., and determine how quickly it becomes depleted. Most likely I'll have to wait and see if I can somehow incorporate quantitization
It seems the last idea would be a huge reduction. Animals I will likely make seperate from the terrain (meaning they may move around... I forget which resource sparked this requirement). But likely I will not be able to combine the common crops. It will depend on how similar a set of resources is. I cannot combine a single resource that has a unique effect on the civ or that has units, buildings, etc. requiring that specific resource. I am trying to give each resource that I include a valid, unique function.
I need one more vote for the swamp and three more for resources. I am so undecided on resources especially that I need several other opinions on this.
And here's my map to-do/priority list:
1) Create a version of my map cleared of all resources
2) Finish Tea resource
3) Finish Coral feature
4) Finish Wintermod
5) Setup the stone/clay etc. system
as well as fill in missing resources
Unless I am forgetting stuff I really wanted included, this will likely be what I squeeze in before I release the map. Terraces and fjords, for example, will likely wait until later, as I am going to need to plan out how to do them.
Kevin
