aCK-2 Seeing Red

[S.ilver]

Well... that could have gone better. Since this is a learning game I won't rip you too hard Whosit , but honestly, losing Tokyo was a major blunder considering that it was our main source of commerce. When Brennus declared, I would have been whipping stuff left right and centre, units, infrastructure, whatever.

I have no idea what Brennus' stack looked like, so I won't pass judgment. But when we saw it, you should have been cranking units like nuts in order to counter it in the south. We basically have NOTHING in that area to work with, and I'll have to build stuff on the fly.

Not much use of me saying anything right now, I'll have to go through this next set slowly and with a novel length report, as it appears to me that the art of war is perhaps a bit more difficult for others than it is for me (the stack that DE provided was MONSTROUS, and it's in pieces now).

 

[Diamondeye]

My... Babies... All dead

Nah, it's okay... I'll look at it in depth later (read: I'll skim thru Silver's report)...

 

[Jedi_Otis]

Lurker comments:

Wow!!! Talk about tense searing drama. If I had tickets to tonights Pens vs Caps game 6, I'd prolly stay home anxiously awaiting the next chapter in this saga.

Anyway, here's my unsolicited comments. Things could be a lot worse. Why Pacal would introduce a "stop war on Brennus" resolution instead of "stop war on Pacal" might qualify for the "Silly AI" thread. Not having the Celts continue to harass you on another front doesn't seem to be in his best interests.

The good news there is you get a reprieve from them and it does seem Khans thundering herd is moving off to smackdown Liz. The bad news is Brennus may do the same. Liz is very weak and if the 2 of them dogpile her, she could be quickly subjugated, allowing the Hindu Axis of Evil to turn it's full attention back to the pagan heathens on the block.

Um...that would be you guys.

If I'm understanding the AP correctly, you shouldn't be getting any surprises from it for a while. BUG sez the next vote in 13 turns is an election, and then you'll have another 14 turns after that before any resolutions can be introduced.

One thing I would like to question about your overall war strategy:

Why on earth have you not attempted to un-hook Pacals iron? There is one right next to one of the cities you conquered, and it might be safe to assume the one near Pacals more lightly defended and isolated western holdings is now also under his control although the map still shows barb control.

 

[Whosit]

Well, Jedi Otis, there are two reasons I have for not going after Pacal's iron: The first is that he seems to field mounted and archery units almost exclusively; the second is that I just wasn't paying attention.

As far as the bit of barb territory showing, there once was a barb town there, but I think our maps just weren't updated.

Sorry about your stack, DE. My only consolation is that it's probably still strong enough to take a few more Mayan cities before it's through.

Should I have waited for the whole stack to heal before advancing on Mayapan? Should I have used our stack to counter Pacal's troops outside of Mutal? Personally, I think I managed the troops alright until the massive blunder at the end, though I admit that I focused on speed of conquest rather than slow-and-steady.

And, as for the Tokyo disaster, although I whipped a couple of units, as S.ilver said, I now realize that it would have been better to whip the town into the stone age and retain it than save some population and lose it. Should I have also whipped Kyoto down to nothing, as well, to get more units out?

Second question along those lines: I considered it briefly, but should I have gotten a few horse archers out to try and flank the siege units that Pacal and Brennus brought to bear on our towns? Looking back, I now think that a couple of horse archers with flanking would have changed the outcome at Tokyo at the end there.

I kind of feel that it's useless for me to say what I'd try to do to fix things, but I suppose the worst I can do is to betray my ignorance. As much a threat as Pacal's teching is, we're pretty boned without our primary commerce town. I suppose what I would do at this point is first: Kill Pacal's wounded troops. Then I'd seek peace, getting whatever I could, reorganize the remainder of our stack, firm up defenses in the north, send the troops south, adding Samurai, catapults, whatever, and once the 10-turn grace period is up, strike at Tokyo and retake it, and this time making sure that I have the troops to hold it. If things go well, I might burn down Coventry if it's presenting any kind of cultural pressure on Tokyo's tiles (diplomatic penalty with Brennus be damned). As soon as we could get peace with Brennus, double time back to Maya-land and finish the job.

The biggest problem I imagine is how big of a garrison Brennus gives Tokyo. It should be in revolt for a little while, though, but probably not long enough. However, this time I would make sure not to underestimate the capabilities of the AI.

Even disregarding the loss of Tokyo, I haven't been sure how we were going to fix our economy. It seems that we'll need a long peace spell to build/whip court houses and market places. (Yes, queuing a market in Kyoto was a sign of my foolishness and preoccupation with our financial situation.) The only thing really financing research during my set was capturing cities. Is there a way to reign in unit costs aside from keeping a small army?

So . . . that would be my battle plan. The alternative I thought of was to continue fighting the Maya, but retaking Tokyo certainly seems like the priority to me. And, again, I apologize for my mistakes. I'll say "it could have gone worse" only because saying the alternative guarantees a worst-case-scenario.

 

[Jedi_Otis]

Please bear in mind, Whosit, that my question about the iron wasn't directed soley at you. If I'm not mistaken, the impetus of your march on Pacal was northwards long before you took the helm. You guys are way better players than I, and I've learned a lot by reading and following along with your various SGs and it wasn't my intent to even seem like I was questioning individual play. I'm more concerned with learning more about the teams overall strategic thought process.

For instance, It doesn't seem like you guys considered some sort of a drive on Mayans in the west. Given the disposition of the 2 Iron resources, and whatever else might be hiding in the fog over there-Mayans are gettin' Ellys' from somewhere I can't see-I'm wondering if it might have been possible to cripple his war machine building abilities before a drive into his heartland. In that event, you all may have been able swallow Pacal at your leisure whilst leaving more forces on your borders to deal with your more menacing neighbors.

 

[Diamondeye]

I haven't had a chance to look at the save in detail, so I can't comment on any specific things, Whosit, but I can comment on the idea of our next moves; Can't we wipe Pacal out and then turn our full attention to Tokyo? Or am I being an idiot?

 

[sturick]

@Whosit: To answer your HA question...your HA has to survive the attack in order to inflict the flanking damage so that wouldn't have helped...Pacals jumbos would have eaten them alive and Brennus maces would have done the same.

Suiciding a cat or two on a sieging stack can provide you with some extra time to bring in reinforcements. But I do that only if the cats are already available. I don't build them in the endangered town fyi. I used that technique in PeteyP1 to fend off Peter while he was slowly bombing Seattle. It bought me enough time to bring my SoD to wipe out his sieging stack and retake Chicago.

Building xbows would have provided the best defense against all the maces that Brennus had in this situation. A couple of LBs to kill off the cats then let the xbows try and hold the maces off. Samurai are nice but they won't help with defending...we could have built them after the threat was eliminated.

Remember that Kyoto with its settled GG can put out 5xp units...I would have been whipping out xbows (figuratively and literally) like crazy from there. I dreamed earlier about having those Combat I-CG III xbows...they would have been nice.

Overall, I concur with your assessment of your gameplay Whosit...take away the last couple of turns and it was pretty good. It was quite a daunting task you were given (2 front wars are never easy) so don't hang your head over it. I hate to speak for Silver and Liq here...but I imagine that they would both agree that they haven't given the amount of feedback and coaching that either of them would have liked to. But circumstances just haven't allowed for that this time around...

Get well soon Liq!
And I am sure you crushed your finals Silver!

Speaking of crushing things...Silver will undoubtedly have better plans than I for a counterattack so I will leave that in his capable hands.

 

[Whosit]

**********

 

[S.ilver]

First off, my apologies for the massive delay. I thought I'd have more time than I actually did (and it wasn't helped by the AI going bonkers on me, as usual). As a result, there's considerably less advice shoved into my report than I was hoping to put. Hopefully a few generalizations will suffice.

Keep the stack together. Do NOT split it unless you're leaving garrison forces behind in a town. The reason for this is that the AI will not attack a stack if it's too big for it to deal with (if they attack your biggest stack with an even bigger stack, you're dead anyways...). The AI will then routinely ignore your stack, and sometimes try to walk past it, allowing you to lay a smackdown on them.

I lost very few units this round (other than cats) because when you keep the stack together, YOU get you choose the matchups, because you're doing the attacking.

1130AD (258):

Preflight check.

Ok, first off, we're in pieces. We've lost a ton of score, presumably from Brennus hosing us down and taking out Tokyo. We've also lost a ton of commerce with Tokyo gone. That place was a nice culture sink and it's going to suck trying to rebuild it. Losing THE core commerce city of the game is unacceptable. You can't be focusing on one part of the map to the complete detriment of the other. We have NO mature cottages left and our commerce has crapped out.

We need to raise an army of Samurai and Crossbows FAST, and take Tokyo back at the soonest opportunity.

We are losing money at 0% science, so, in short, we are effed. We need to survive 10 turns and get an army up to take back Tokyo, all while manhandling Pacal.


Kyoto is building a Market and we have ZERO commerce in this hole. Therefore, why are we building a market? We have a settled GG here among other things, but first I dial a courthouse. I dump the market from the queue, and I don't want to see this thing built until we run out of other happiness options.

Osaka sadly needs to pick up the slack from us losing basically all our commerce. It has a bunch of immature cottages, which are better than nothing, so move to that. Market will take 15 turns, but the 5-pop whip is too extreme.

Satsuma has no courthouse, so get on that. We need to cut expenses.

Kags is building a crossbowman, and we need serious worker attention here, among other things. I'm going to slot in a courthouse, as maintenance is killing us.

Tabriz is working on a Barracks, and again we need worker attention here.

Uxmal is working on a badly needed courthouse which cannot be whipped for the foreseeable future.

Mutal is working on a spearman, and we have 3 spearmen here already, among other spearmen running amok. I dial a samurai. We need our best military being fielded right now, not some obsolete junk. If you need a mounted counter, Elephants work.

Oxwtf just ate some whip overflow, so dialing up a courthouse, as 6 gold maintenance sucks.

Mayapan is still in revolt and we have no other cities.

Khan is going after someone not named Toku hopefully, so let's deal with Pacal.

We finish off Pacal's wounded stack with scraps from the cities, dropping him to 1.4 power rating with us. He is done, he just doesn't know it.

1140AD (259):

Brennus shows up and wants us to adopt OR. Um, we have no religion, so what good is OR? Not interested in pleasing Brennus anyways.

Kyoto's courthouse gets 2-popped, and I stagnant for max hammers at size 10.

Satsuma endures a brutal 4-pop whip to get that courthouse up, and get back to troops.

I find our workers doing questionable things, like hanging around Satsuma, which doesn't need any more help at the moment, instead of stuff like helping out Kags...

I start plodding towards Chicken Pizza with our stack.

Mutal 3 pop whips a Samurai as we have angry people here anyways, so who the hell cares?

1150AD (260):

WAR HORNS! As Genghis declares on Liz. I saw that coming with all the Genghis troops rallying in Edrine, etc...

Kyoto's courts finishes, Bureau + the whip gives us 1 turn Samurai, go for that.

Sats finishes a courthouse, dial a forge. How is it a forge never got built in this place?

Mutal's samurai is done, dial a Courthouse.

1160AD (261):

A Mayan revolt in Uxmal, ugh. We also lose a farm near Sats, no big deal as the workers get on it.

A catapult that ran out of Chicken Pizza gets punked by a samurai this turn, as our stack parks itself next to Pacal's wretched city.

Kyoto done a Samurai, and go for a Cat.

Tabriz finishes a barracks, but is useless right now, so we dial for a Longbowman, and pray for a better situation.

1170AD (262):

Liz demands Feud. Uh, no way.

Pyramids FINALLY BIAFL. Uxmal gets attacked by a mace, but a garrisoned axeman takes him out.

Chicken Pizza is zeroed by 3 Cats, and we're ready to rock next turn.

Mayapan is out of revolt and starving, so 3 pop that Granary out.

1180AD (263):

Blah, as if we need more bad events.

Well we are not using that mine at the moment, so go for the cheap option.

Let's go at Chicken Pizza.

First CR1 cat goes in and dies. Longbow down to 5.2 strength, so not all bad.
Next cat also CR1. Longbow down to 4.9, this could be a long night.
Next Cat... uhh... best odds is 16% on the leading Cat, so do that. We take that 16% odds and WITHDRAW with 3.6 strength! That is one uber Cat.
More 16% odds for the next Cat. Didn't expect to win, but we beat down the Crossbow, so all is good.
24% odds cat Can't handle the mace, bleh. Final Cat is pretty much useless as well.

Big roll for Bigman Karl...

And that's why they are Bigmen ladies and gentlemen.

Next up we send a CR2 sword to Tango with the Maceman at 57% odds and we win. Squeaks by with 0.2 strength, omg. Trivial from here.
Combat Colin takes easy 93% odds and manages to get hurt fighting. Lame. He takes out the Crossbow.
CR2 Sword vs Pike is a victory for us, obviously.
Run the beat Longbow over with a CR2 Axe.

Last is a sword vs an enemy sword, and we win.

Next vote in 7 turns, but I have no idea how we're going to take Pacal's holy city, as it has a castle. We do have massive power numbers on him though.

Kyoto done a Cat, dial another.

Mayapan's granary is finished, get on a slow courthouse.

Chicken Pizza wants a courthouse too.

1190AD (264):

Genghis shows up!

Liz shares no borders with us and this is basically free Rep. So do it.

As well, Monty and Sully declare on Liz, so EVERYONE is fighting Liz. Free Dip all around!

We can do NOTHING against Lakamha until we have Trebs, so dial up Mr. Pacal.

Pick up Drama for more culture goodness.

Madly marching the stack south to go and hit Brennus when time is up.

Kags can 3 pop it's courthouse, so get that done.

Osaka can 3 pop whip it's market, and it grows fast, so get that done.

1200AD (265):

Pacal revolts into Serfdom, ok... He's almost done Nationalism so he's running away with the tech very easily.

Kyoto finishes a Cat, and gets on another.

Osaka is done its market and starts a Crossbow.

We have positive cashflow again, but our GNP is still an utter disaster.

1210AD (266):

Kyoto rolls out a Catapult, and I dial up another Catapult. We're going to go through a LOT of catapults.

1220AD (267):

Essentially, we are waiting on the arrival of our stack to Tokyo, where we CAN take back our city.

1230AD (268):

Genghis wants us to convert.

Let's keep him happy shall we? I want the extra votes from being a full AP member anyways.

Peace ends with Brennus.

Kyoto's Cat is done, so dial a Samurai.

1240AD (269):

Anarchy ends, but we are still not quite ready to deal with Brennus yet.

Mutal 2-pops its courthouse.

1250AD (270):

Bad news. Liz becomes the vassal of Genghis... We obviously are in no position to do anything about this.

Mutal's courts are done, we get on a Hindu Monastery.

1255AD (271):

Bad news, Pacal voluntarily vassals to Monty.

AP, we vote for ourselves, although we are unlikely to win.

Ox whips its courthouse for 3 pop.

1260AD (272):

Pacal wins the AP vote, with everyone else voting for him.

We have our army parked next to Tokyo now, but going to wait a few turn to heal the swords that marched wounded.

Kyoto finished the Samurai. We can't afford more troops at the moment, so going to finish off that market that I stalled on.

The Ox finishes off a courthouse, I dial up a courthouse, as we have big growth potential and we need to defeat Pacal's culture here so it doesn't cause a problem.

Chicken Pizza has ONE turn into it's courthouse, so I drop a 4 pop whip on it.

1265AD (273):

Genghis goes into WHEOOH mode this turn. I panic as we share a massive border with him. Let's take a look at the relations screen.

Looks like Genghis dislike's Liz and Monty before us (and possibly Sully too). I think that means he's not coming for us (if he is coming for us, we are dead anyways, so this won't stop the recapture of Tokyo). We are 0.7 power to Khan, so a fight would be bad...

One more turn before we're healed enough to take out Brennus.

Chicken Pizza finished whipping courts, so slot in a Granary.

1270AD (274):

Ok, so we are dead.

Genghis suicides a Mace against Tabriz before even shelling us, so we have a break there...

Ok, obviously this is not good as all the troops are on the other side of the empire... The stack is on the move to take out Edirne. We might as well.

Uxmal has a few spare troops, so I dispose of a Khan Longbowman.

1275AD (275):

Monty demands Drama. Well we have enough crap on our hands right now, so give it to him.

He just so happens to be in WHEOOH, so yeah. I'm kind of scared now. As could be seen from the last screen though, he hates Genghis, and we have OB with him, so I'm hoping he just marches through our lands to take out Genghis.

I'm pulling out almost all troops for the Mongolian border, as Genghis is assembling troops against Tabriz.

Our SOD beats down the Genghis stack heading out of Edirne, and we get a Great General in Osaka, which was about to be attacked. I move him away from the border, although I have no intention of losing Osaka.

Kags finishes a crossbowman, and we need another.

Ox squeezes out a Theatre, so I slot in a barracks.

I whip out the Catapult at Tabriz, as we're probably going to die anyways, and I'd rather not give Khan more pop.

1280AD (276):

WAR HORNS SOUND!

Monty DoWs on Liz! Which means...

Nice... This would be perfect if the situation wasn't so hopeless for us...

Genghis pulls back his troops near Tabriz, so the panic whip was unecessary . It actually looks like he's going to attack Pacal. Yay! Teach that fool to vassal voluntarily to someone else...

Khan brought MORE troops to Edirne...

Our Samurai DOMINATE the enemy Maces, swatting them down. One of our Samurai goes flawless. We then proceed to beat down the Catapults until there is only one left. I don't want to split the stack, so that catapult will live.

Kyoto's Market finished, and I dial a Samruai.

Osaka is finished a Crossbow, so dial another.

Tabriz whipped Longbow is done. Uh... another Longbow?

I decide to settle the GG in Kyoto, as we need the extra XP now.

1285AD (277):

Genghis ridiculously charges a War Elephant at the Walls of Tabriz, and gets pwned by Samurai swords. FLAWLESS!

Genghis will take peace for 75 gold, but I'd like to take out Edirne first. It happens to be behind a river, so we need to make our way around it. Luckily Genghis controls no squares there, and since we have OB with Sully, we can easily make our way around to the hill in the NE.

Mutal finished a Hindu Monastery, so I'm spitting out Missionaries.

Ox built a Barracks I think, so going to start chaining out Crossbows.

Kyoto finishes a Samruai, dial another.

1295AD (279):

Chicken Pizza gets a border pop, so we can work Whales now, yay.

We reduce Genghis in Edirne and start the beating.

First Cat dies but does damage the enemy Mace.
Second Cat also dies, but more damage, and more Collateral.
Third Cat withdraws against a Mace.
Last Cat withdraws against a Keshik (yes we only have 4 cats right now...)

It's killing time as the leadoff Samurai pwns the enemy Crossbow.
Another Crossbow is up, so Combat Colin goes in. Flawless! Not so bad after all I guess.
Next up is an enemy Longbow no matter what, so run it over with a WE.
CR2 Axe goes in with good odds and dies to a Keshik. Boo.
In compensation, our CR2 Sword goes Flawless against an Axe.
CR2 Sword beats down an enemy Mace.
CR3 Sword has 96% odds against a Keshik and cleans house.
A Catapult is next and it XPs our Samruai for us.
Our Medic picks up free XP taking down a severly damaged Mace.
Our wounded Shock Phant takes out an enemy Chariot.
There are Two Keshiks Left. We have FIVE Spears with the Stack.

We gain a town that is largely pointless in the grand scheme of things, but more importantly we SMACK DOWN Khan. Nothing survived the sacking, and we have 1 pop, so dial for a Granary.

Chicken Pizza finishes it's Granary, and dials up a Theatre.

Genghis won't give us anything but 200 gold for peace. I think that's fine, as we need to get Tokyo back, so can't afford to deal with this idiot right now.

We are at 1.0 power with Khan if you can believe it. I also re-establish OB and trade. Hopefully he'll send troops against Monty.

1300AD (280):

Mutal squeezes out a Hindu Missionary. I pause for a Theatre.


I'm going to stop here, as we are scattered and I've made absolutely no progress on Machinery. We need to retake Tokyo, but we need a couple more Cats for that (or suiciding a lot of troops). We need some serious turns of economic building while Monty and Co duke it out with Genghis and Co. Hopefully Genghis will not be pleased with Pacal after this little incident.

I can't provide any pearls of wisdom at the moment, as I'm still a bit scattered from playing this set disjointedly over the week. I've started converting Ox and Mutal over to cottages to help our ailing economy, but I will defer to InfraLiq (if he's around at the moment) for reconstruction advice.

Chicken Pizza had the Paya in it, so we can head to Free Religion if we want to. It would probably be a good idea, as Monty is currently the scariest kid on the block.

 

[Diamondeye]

Impressive handling of a really no-go situation, S.Ilver! I think Liq is up but let's have him decide that, shall we?

It really looks like we are getting some war on our hands in this game, lovely!

 

[sturick]

Ditto DE's sentiments...very well done Silver.
You have at least given us a fighting chance here.

I imagine playing this set was a bit like watching a good tennis match.
Your head was on a swivel going back and forth between Pacal and Monty and Genghis and back again.

So as to whos up next...I think technically I am next in line.
However, the game would be in better hands if InfraLiq took the reins here.
Then on the other hand, if I play we could put my skills to the test.
Give us a chance to see if Silver and Liqs teachings have had an impact on my gameplay...(they have btw...got my first emperor win the other day! WOOT!)

I don't care either way...I'm up in Petey too so I will go with the majority on this one.

Once again great job Silver...well worth the wait!

 

[Whosit]

A lesson in managing a bad situation and an ill-timed war. Good job as always, S.ilver. Sounds like the troops performed well under you, suicide-catapults aside.

I was taking a look at the demographics charts and something puzzles me, though the answer may be simpler than I think. The GNP chart shows that Pacal's income has barely budged since we've started our offensive. Taking a look at what we've actually taken and what he has left, it seems like we never hit his financial center and only took outlying towns with little commerce. Which means we've come this far and haven't really stopped the Pacal train. Let me know if my analysis is misdirected here. His connection to Monty now presents a problem. Brennus is the only one we can fight without guaranteeing multiple interventions, but the charts also say that his commerce and culture have spiked. Did he hit a golden age?

If we are lucky, Monty and Khan will stay in open war for awhile.

On a completely different note, I'm responsible for that "Irrigate This Way" sign near Tabriz and now I cannot fathom why I put it there. There was clearly river access right by the city. Whoever goes next, feel free to remove it.

I wouldn't mind to see Liq take the next set if he wants to (not to rob sturick of his due, of course).

Getting Lakamha would be a boon to our empire, but how to get it? The bad news is that we'd be at war with Monty, but the good (and bad) news is that we're between Monty and Pacal. We'd have to fight a two-front war, but would we be able to fight defensively on the eastern front?

Though, the immediate issue is taking Tokyo back. Brennus isn't happy with us. If only he'd join in the war against Monty, that would make things easier for us. Doesn't look like he wants to deal with us, though. Power indicates that we're only a little short of Brennus. Is it conceivable to grab a chunk of Celtia during our war or do we want to go no further than Tokyo?

 

[Liquidated]

Sadly just skip liq, stalling enough on boff alone much less another. horrible month. Nice turns silver.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

 

[Diamondeye]

Sturick, would you mind picking this up,then?

 

[sturick]

I can definitely pick this up now that I finished my Petey set.

I would like to hear everyones thoughts on what our next move should be.
I assume that we will be wary of the maniacs to our east and west.
But our main objective will be to build a taskforce to retake Tokyo (and more???) from Brennus.
I've been wrong before though...

I will try to play later today if I hear back from enough of you.
Otherwise, I will play tomorrow barring anything unforseen.

 

[Liquidated]

Wow, finally read that report silver... amazing haha. One thing I would think though is..

I've made absolutely no progress on Machinery

Sammys and xbows running about yes?

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[S.ilver]

Wow, ok, I ed bad. Clearly Engineering. Gee, been so long since we discovered a tech, I forgot which one we were researching

Uh, we do want to take Tokyo back, but I have no idea if we can go any further. Coventry is an obvious possibility as well, but it is highly likely that Brennus has castles up in some towns, and we won't be able to even dent the defenses there.

Not sure how much active scouting we can get done. Might want to build a spy or two to check the place out (since we have nowhere enough EPs to revolt cities). But yeah, the short term plan is to retake Tokyo, and rescue our failing economy.

 

[sturick]

Okay...so its looking more likely that I won't be able to play until Tuesday morning...sorry gang

Gives me time to clarify our plans...

Kyoto finish samurai...crank out some cats.
I'll try and find the sweet spot by attacking Brennus as soon as we enough cats...sacrificing a few weaker troops wouldn't be horrible as we are paying 25 gpt in unit costs currently.

Osaka...I would like to get the mine back online for extra production.
I would like to build a forge here but I'm not sure we can afford a 13ish turn building.
Plus, I'm hesitant to whip here as it is currently picking up alot of the commerce slack.

Chicken Pizza whip that theatre out...thinking that we go either walls (peace is up in 5 turns) or lighthouse (not likely to get any more land based tiles from the theatre any time soon...so work the water for faster regrowth) or a library (sci specs with the academy here). Lots of options here but with our good happies we can really throw the whip at this city.
We can steal the plains hill from Mutal as its not using it.

Sats can whip out its forge...it'll consume the only real source of science we currently have but we need to have this city crank out units right???

Kago...just gonna let this slow grow and monitor for good whip opportunities...not enough food here to whip like Chicken Pizza for example. Probably try to get a forge here soon as its close to reaching 12 hammers...a good number for the forge multiplier.

Tabriz...I'll try to use our peace to get a mine on the plains hill and just cap this city at size four.
Growing that city any further is just gonna increase maintenance anyways.

Uxmal will get a whip for sure...not sure what to build after it though.

Mutal just started its theatre...maybe a two pop whip after a few turns...hesistant to whip here too since it will carry a great deal of the commerce burden.

The Ox is gonna be whipping quite frequently with its fish...might try and get a market in here with the gold mine it has.

Mayapan needs to get its horses and a mine built here...but once it does we will have a pretty solid city. Possible Moai city...but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Go with lots of infra here.

Not sure what to make of Edirne right now...I'll have to look at it again when it pacifies.

I think that I will build just enough troops to retake Tokyo.
I don't think overextending ourselves right now is a good idea.
If we have enough troops I'll think about Coventry but its not of major importance.
I'll try and eek out a spy somewhere to scout out Brennus' lands for future use.

We can trade gems to Monty for 12 gpt but we would get diplo penalties with Genghis and Liz.
Is it worth it??? I say in our sad economic state that it is.

Plus if we switch to Free Religion we are essentially buddying up with Monty anyways and just hoping that the two mongers war it out with each other huh?

Okay thats all I have for now...

 

[sturick]

Here goes nothing...

Kyoto and Osaka look good.
I'll whip Chicken Pizza next turn for max overflow.
I whip Sats forge now...we lose the two scientists though.
Uxmal whips out the courthouse.
The Ox whips an xbow with 46 overflow.

Now I'm pondering the benefits of trading with Monty...as well as swapping to free religion.

Silver is quite correct that Monty is looking pretty scary right now.
We would like to avoid his wrath at all costs.

Also, looking to the future...who would we attack to expand our empire???
Brennus is obvious as he is has Tokyo and he is our next target...plus he isn't currently allied with anyone.
Genghis is an option...hopefully Monty chooses to attack him or Liz later. Then we can join that war and get shared conflict diplo with Monty.

After retaking Tokyo from Brennus, taking Pacals lands would be nice but with him vassaled to Monty it just ain't happening right now.

So I make this trade with Monty...

I also adopt Free Religion and to make use of it I'll bump the slider as high as I can once we escape anarchy.

Whacking enter...

(1) 1305 AD

Well we are losing 13 gpt at 30% science...sucks when thats an improvement in the situation huh?

I start building the pasture near Mayapan and the mine at Osaka.

The mish I send to Osaka to hindding the place.

Otherwise a boring anarchy turn.

(2) 1310 AD

Kyoto samurai>cat
Sats forge>longbow
Uxmal courthouse>spy (coulda built a rax but this city has five hammers)
The Ox crossbow>cat

Kyoto loves the emperor!!!

(3) 1315 AD

Kyoto cat>cat
The Ox cat>xbow

A stupid 6 turn revolt takes place in Chicken Pizza...engineering takes a 5 turn hit!

(4) 1320 AD

Kago xbow>longbow

Aztecs get a culture event.
Someone gets a great scientist.

(5) 1325 AD

Kyoto cat>xbow for garrison
Osaka xbow>forge

First really big decision of the set...Pacal wants to reassign the city of Mutal back to him. Obviously we don't want this...

I think we have to defy this one...Pacal is liked by all (except us right now) so I think it would pass. We have quite a bit of happy cushion to work with so I don't think the +5 penalty will hurt us too much. We determined that the unhappy is NOT permanent so I think this is the right choice...fingers crossed.

Our dreams of a liberalism slingshot are dashed
Brennus surprisingly is the one to nab it....I would put good money on Pacal.

Edirne stack is finally healed...in my best Jack Bauer voice: "We need a medic!!!!"

(6) 1330 AD

Did we make the right decision with regard to Mutal???

It would seem so...232 votes for and it needed 207.
I forgot that Genghis hates Pacal now...he voted for us...or more accurately against Pacal. Lets see what kind of damage this move cost us.

2 unhappiness in Osaka...that was to be expected.
I can 4pop whip the forge...not sure if thats the best move.
I do it....it'll cost us a little bit of commerce but we are poised to take back Tokyo so we should be fine.

Mutal will suffer through 3 turns of unhappiness when it grows in 6. So I switch to a mine to only have one turn of unhappy.

Mayapan has one unhappy citizen but no whip available now so we just bite the bullet here.

Stack sitting outside of Tokyo...ready to attack in 2!

(7) 1335 AD

Kyoto xbow>longbow
Osaka forge>xbow
Sats longbow>longbow
Tabriz longbow>theatre

Stack is ready to go near Tokyo.
We have six cats...I would like more but this should do the trick of retaking Tokyo.
This isn't going to be a long campaign anyways.

(8) 1340 AD

Uxmal spy>barracks

So Pacal is teching Econ...this is a scary tech situation we are in.
Fortunately, Genghis is no better than us.
We will have to take him out next I think...

But first things first...lets recapture Tokyo!

I use the bombard cat to knock the city down to 4% then lets just suicide the rest.
They don't call em suicide cats for nothin!

First cat...nothing but collateral.
Second cat is CRII and dies knocking the lead longbow down to 4.1
Third cat with the same promos has lower odds than the cat before...I'm confused here?!?!
It dies putting two hits on a mace.
Number four is up....dies with 31% odds.
Last available cat is up...and retreats with 36% odds!

Now time to see what our ground troops can do!

98% odds for an unnamed samurai...earn your name son!

You'll have to forgive the Cubs fan in me here...meet Bigman Kosuke!

Next samurai is up and he gets the more traditional name of Bigman Fred.

I promote a samurai CRII and he wins flawlessly!

I promote a samurai to Drill III...mostly because I have never played with Samurai and I wanted to see a Drill IV Samurai. I call learning game on this move!
He wins btw.

The formation samurai earns a promotion by knocking out the longbow.

Bigman Karl has 91% odds now...I want better for him so I give one of the lesser swords the opportunity for glory on the battlefield. He wins with no problem!

99.5% odds...thats more like it...clean up Karl!
You too Colin!

I want a level 5 WE so I let him take a defender out.
I want a Drill IV xbow too so in he goes.

We retake Tokyo!!!
No gold from the recapture but we get hella culture back...!

I kinda wish that I built a few more cats...I forgot that our culture would reemerge once we got Tokyo back...I'll likely send the crew down and harass Brennus and bombard him down...we'll see how he reacts...maybe I can pick off a straggler or two.

(9) 1345 AD

Kyoto longbow>cat
Mutal theatre>forge

Brennus adopts Taoism...this is nothing but good for us as it makes him a heathen to Monty and Genghis!

So I look to see what defenses Brennus placed in Coventry inbetween turns...he has a Cuirasseir...uggh!

Chicken Pizza comes out of revolt but we are still -13 gold at 30% slider.

(10) 1350 AD

Kago longbow>spy for Genghis lands

Genghis wants us to attack Sulei...I'll get back to you on this one.

(11) 1355 AD

Brennus builds the Taj and gets a golden age...

Liz offers this trade...I know I shouldn't be trading with her...but we are so backwards!

We now can build the Great Library!!!
Oh wait...that was built like 500 years ago.

I'd love to help out as soon as we are done warring with Brennus k!

I crank up science to learn engineering in six...that way once we get pikes we can safely join the war against Genghis.

Troops moved into harassment positions at Coventry.

(12) 1360 AD

I bombard Coventry down to 0%

Monty starts a golden age.

(13) 1365 AD

Not alot...except for this stupid request.

(14) 1370 AD

Tabriz library>forge

(15) 1375 AD

Osaka xbow>cat
Kago spy>cat
Uxmal rax>forge
The Ox xbow>cat

Another frackin revolt in Chicken Pizza....

Gonna attack with 4 cats at Coventy...I realize this is suboptimal but I plan on losing a few weaker ground troops to lower our unit costs...we have lots of obsolete axes that do us little good right now.

Our first cat knocks the lead musket down to 6.3 with 6 collaterals!
Second cat almost escapes from a mace beating it down to 2.6 with 6 collaterals!
Third cat takes the cuir down to 7.2 with 5 collaterals.
Last cat has 53% odds to escape...but alas it dies.

His defenses are thoroughly pounded though...

Bigman Kosuke takes out the cuir...
Bigman Fred flawlessly ousts an xbow...
So I try to suicide an axe to reduce costs...well it survives at 16% odds and gets 5 exp!!! So much for that idea
Okay next suicide goes as expected...3xp axe dies as it should.
Bigman Karl has 99.8% odds now so I exp him up.
Drill Instructor Samurai wipes the floor...
As does a CRII samurai...
Bigman Combat Colin and two CR swords do their jobs.
Our medic axeman finishes the deed and takes Coventry.

The three core buildings (forge, courthouse, granary) survive the attack...nice!

Time to dial up Brennus...

I was hoping for more but I'll take it...

His World Map proved to be the biggest piece of the deal...no more spy scouting needed.

Well, I planned on stopping after Engineering so I'll pass the torch to DE here.

I choose Guilds next as it gives us grocers for our economy and knights aren't bad either. But feel free to change it.

Wrapup

In hindsight I realize I should have built more cats and fewer xbows...had to wait a couple of turns before I could take Coventry.

Interesting note...when you defy a resolution you don't get the +2 hammers from AP buildings in villain cities...don't know yet if this is permanent or if it ends when we aren't considered a villain anymore.

We are still suffering from that penalty in all Hindu cities but it isn't causing any unhappy citizens.

After looking at the maps that we got from Brennus...I would give serious consideration to having our next attack take Vienne and Bibracte.
Take a look at the wonders screen and you will understand why...plus with Bibracte being a coastal city with 3 seafood it would survive even under cultural pressures.

Roster:

1-Sturick (just played)
2-Diamondeye (up next)
3-Goblinmarine (are you still out there?)
4-Liquidated (hopefully your puter is behaving now)
5-Whosit (about to enjoy a victory in SAM-01)
6-Silver (recovering from the whiplash of his last set)

 

[Diamondeye]

Good set, Sturick. I don't know if I like us trading with Liz, but apart from that it was good.
We seriously need to deal with the AP soon. Can't we DoW Pacal again or is he too strong? At least just DoW him so he'll call peace instead of Mutal (which we can the vote yes on and get our membership back)... I'll probably play this thursday.