aCK-3 The Cat with the Hat

[pholtz]

Nice warring John!!!!!

I see I was way too pessimistic about our chances. I thought we could take the iron city but thought we would be fighting to keep it. Instead you just charge though two cities and then take the capital!!!!

I won't have a chance to look at the save until this afternoon.

 

[IamJohn]

Some more thoughts (still not looked at the save):

We have 178 gold plus hopefully some more war booty to come. Losing only 6 gold / turn at 40% during war is not a worry. When the war is over, a couple of cities can build wealth until our new cities are up to speed.

Keep in mind this is with 3 or 4 cities building just gold. Otherwise we'd be losing units due to striking.

All the other civs have feudalism. Is it likely that that Shaka will become somebody's vassal when we agree peace? If so, we want to weaken him as much as possible. As I said in the previous post, getting uMg.....? and Nobamba would be great, but looking at the screenshots again, the gem city kwaD...? would be an absolutely fantastic commerce city to have. Nearly every tile is riverside.

Totally agree, remember though that we might not be able to support all those cities, or at least we would have to put a bunch of cities into making just gold.

Also if I remember right the risk for capitulating doesn't start once we're in peace, he could do it now if he wanted to, which is why it's an option I normally turn off when I play by myself.

Getting the 'Mids is good news. Looking at the diplo screen with HC we don't a +ve for civic choice. I take it he's no longer in HR? If so, we could swap to police state to help with our continued war effort. Will need to check what this will cost us.

Sorry, I wrote it confusingly, The diplo screen I showed earlier was Shaka's diplo screen for HC, this is ours. This is our's below. As you can see we still get the +bonus for good civics, and we need the happiness anyway imo (as well as the fact that switching to a high maintenance civic would cost more money per turn...)

Nice warring John!!!!!

I see I was way too pessimistic about our chances. I thought we could take the iron city but thought we would be fighting to keep it. Instead you just charge though two cities and then take the capital!!!!

Thanks! I was pleasantly surprised as well. I definitely did not expect Shaka to fold so easily, if he had done things right (like take more troops in that 1 counterattacking stack from those he had holed up in his capital) and counter attacked Iron Will we might have had trouble, but instead he threw his troops right into the hungry maw of our newly built troops! (That's also why having that great spy was so useful, I basically had a full view of all his troops and could see where they were, I saw his stack several turns beforehand and was able to prepare for it)

Also you might want to cancel the wines deal, I forgot to, so it's up to you whether you want to or not.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Also if I remember right the risk for capitulating doesn't start once we're in peace, he could do it now if he wanted to

I thought they changed this is one of the updates so that the civ you're at war (A)can't capitulate to another civ you're not at war (B) with until you have made peace with civ (A).

 

[The Simple Mind]

John, it looks like you've attached the wrong save. I know we're sharing the duties here but I didn't realise we were going Dutch .

 

[IamJohn]

Hey variety is the spice of life!

 

[The Simple Mind]

Deleted as I was talking jibberish.

 

[pholtz]

Finally getting around to reviewing the turnset.

Turn 3 - nice early start to the war

Turn 5 - nice attack, destroying the city with no losses. I'm glad you didn't follow my advice and bypass that city.

Turn 7 - we haven't had much luck with galleys. On defense we have a slight advantage but have lost two battles. We have had a second galley close enough to eventually destroy the attacker.. one reason you need to keep galleys paired up. Right now I see Shaka making Triremes which we can't hope to fight. Actually that's good as he can't move his troops with Triremes. I'll probably land the two swordsmen on the galley we have and move it to a safe place. Triremes can't hurt us.

Turn 9 - I notice that you used a spy to get a tech right away. It cost us in espionage points, but it may have been the right move. I'll still probably produce another spy or two just to give us more options.

Iron city taken with only one loss. NICE! I think you did good to keep the city. It won't be bad once the wheat and gold come on line.

Turn 18 - taking a capital with only 3 cat loss? NICE!

I don't think the financial issue is all that bad. Read aCK-2 to see a really bad financial situation. When you go to war, you suffer financially.. part of the price of war.

Current situation:

Shaka is not only trading ivory for copper, but Sury is trading him iron for Clams. So my whole reason to go to war, to deny Shaka iron is kinda out the window. However it was still the right decision, if for the wrong reasons. He also has two sources of Ivory now, one of my reasons to go to war kaput.



I think we keep uMg? It might have been better one to the south, but not worth destroying and rebuilding? Or is it, it is actually a very poor city production wise. One south, and with the corn and the clams, all the grass, it could become an ok specialist city.

Nobamba to be kept? I think I can split the stack, one going to Ivory city, the other for Nobamba.

kwa and Ondini? One possibility is to destroy them both and build a new city one NW of the southern Gem. Ideas?

Berlin has become unhappy. Time to build a forge, and whip it when possible.

No need to go to Police state. We have enough units I think, and war weariness is not a problem right now.

Spy points need reassigning. With 3.6k points on Shaka, no need to to add a piddly 3 per turn to it. I say assign weights of 0 for Shaka, 1 for Toku, and 2 for the others.

More later after further study and feedback. I'll try to get a turn off tomorrow sometime unless discussion is still going strong.

 

[IamJohn]

Shaka is not only trading ivory for copper, but Sury is trading him iron for Clams. So my whole reason to go to war, to deny Shaka iron is kinda out the window. However it was still the right decision, if for the wrong reasons. He also has two sources of Ivory now, one of my reasons to go to war kaput.

Shaka just didn't like elephants for some reason, I used HAs a bunch, but they just never appeared. There's one next to Ulundi that you'll need to deal with, but I've only killed two other ones.

I think we keep uMg? It might have been better one to the south, but not worth destroying and rebuilding? Or is it, it is actually a very poor city production wise. One south, and with the corn and the clams, all the grass, it could become an ok specialist city.

I think this will in part depend on what's in it when we capture it, if there's some decent buildings in the city and a decent pop, then it might be worth it, but it will slow us down in the tech game, and that's going to be a problem imo. We do though have three empire's land, so that really should be good, especially when we're able to fill all the land we have.

Berlin has become unhappy. Time to build a forge, and whip it when possible.

You can build an archer in two turns, it'd probably be a better option imo.

No need to go to Police state. We have enough units I think, and war weariness is not a problem right now.

Agree, I've been checking cities and we haven't been having an issue with it, and the added maintenance would cause issues.

Spy points need reassigning. With 3.6k points on Shaka, no need to to add a piddly 3 per turn to it. I say assign weights of 0 for Shaka, 1 for Toku, and 2 for the others.

Sounds good.

 

[pholtz]

OK, my general plan will be to stop making military units. We have a good army but unfortunately its the main reason we have money troubles. Also the army is good enough to take 2 - 4 more Shaka cities where I would ask for peace anyway. If things look to go south, I'll make peace and we'll have 10 turns at least to rebuild. Our main increase in power will be from upgrades not new builds.

I am to take 4 more Shaka cities if possible, 2 at minimum. Unless I get more guidance, I'll look at what's left in the city to decide whether to keep it or not. Nobamba I'll probably keep.

The builds at home will switch to forges where it makes sense.

I plan to settle the next great spy in Sury-land. If we continue our domination ways, he is the next logical choice. Also he is the best choice to steal techs from. I'll make several more spies and we should be economical with our spy point use from Sury. He won't go down as quick or as soon as Shaka. I hope to get Shaka low enough that he won't be a threat.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Plan sounds good. Agree with settling the GSpy in Sury to catch up in techs.

 

[pholtz]

I took a look at the forum, and since there were no new suggestions I got started with the turnset.

First I took a look at the current situation. Berlin was unhappy. I could whip something, make another military unit (which costs more) or.. try Representation. After scanning our cities I thought representation was the answer. It improved our income a little and got rid of Berlin's unhappiness without adding any more. It does remove some diplomatic bonuses, don't think that's a big thing at the moment. Well see.

I took a look at the trades and managed to renegotiate our wine trade with HC from 2 to 5 gpt. HC is in a cramped situation. His number of cities won't increase any, I think that we will be able to attack him if he poses any kind of cultural or spacecraft win threat (or much sooner).

Toku will give us 8gpt for the pig. I thought long and hard on this, noticing that never were very good in the food department and that three other cities would become unhealthy if I did this along with Berlin's problem getting worse. The forges will also add unhealthiness, so I decided not to. I'm glad Antioch was settled where it was, as we badly needed the iron at the time, and we also need the pig health bonus.

I start Berlin on a Settler, Thessa and Const forges, Adria a spy and Niceae on a Library. I take assign a merchant in both Const and Berlin to get both more money and more research.

Lionus is no longer needed in Berlin, he starts for the front, he will turn back later.

I have to reduce research to 10%, Civil Service is now 22 turns away. Gold is -19pt. I hope I can keep some conquest gold coming in while things slowly get better.

I set the Spy weightings as previously discussed.

Looking at our city trade income, I see another reason for our poor monetary situation. Shaka blocks our trade routes to the other AI's so we have very poor trade income. Look at Const's trades

Just a couple of trades with local cities

The army in Ulindi takes a long look at the War Elephant just outside of town when I end the turn.

890 AD (1): and the elephant just stands there while the chariot runs around. That elephant has got to go. I attack it with a spear which almost kills it. He will be remembered. A HA finishes the job. Everyone else moves onto Ulindi to heal.

We get the first sign of war weariness . Berlin is unhappy again. So I decide to 2 pop whip the Settler.

900 AD (2):
The new settler moves towards the front where he will eventually be used. I can't have Berlin grow so I assign a second merchant. CS is now in 17.

The two swordsmen on the Galley disembark on a forest near uMg, and the Galley moves back as a Trireme is about to come out of there.

Another Elephant and chariot had moved up, I lose a spear and an axe killing them both. So far Shaka and I are even in kills . A smallish stack moves towards uMg as everyone else is still healing.

910 AD (3):

Move units next to uMg to attack next turn

920 AD (4):

HC builds the Colossus

Since I have a smaller stack, it will take one turn to reduce the defenses, and the next to take the city. uMg's defenses reduced to zero.

Shaka moves an axe up behind the stack, I decide to attack it with a HA which dies even though the percent win was in the high 70's. A second unit quickly kills it though. Still just even with Shaka on kills. The second attack stack is healed and starts moving towards Nobamba. The spy moves onto Ondini where he will camp out for 5 turns to lower the cost of a tech steal. Victor Griph (I'll have to look up who this was), our GS infiltrates Khmer and I reduce the spy point weight of Khmer to zero.

930 AD (5):

Adria makes a spy, I start a forge.

I finally do a bit better this turn in terms of kill ratio. Here is the attack picture before anyone goes in.

You can see the list of units in the city. Besides the stack, I also have the two swordsmen in the forest. You can see our galley being chased by a Trireme in the upper right.
1st cat attack - 26% and he retreats!!!
2nd cat attack - one with no promotions, 48% and another retreat!!
Now the two swordsmen attack, with odds in the high 90's. First attack against the archer is flawless, the second against an Impi is not quite as smooth but still a success!
The final two units are so injured that chariots easily kill them and uMg is taken without any casualties! After taking a look and seeing that only a Granary survived the attack, I raze it. And I have a place for the settler already on its way. One south of the ruins.

Berlin is about to become unhappy, so I change a worker to a mine to stagnate it's growth. I now have 248 gold, -18 per turn, CS in 14

940 AD (6):

Ulindi comes out of revolt, is unhappy and starving, but nothing I can do about it. I'll whip a courthouse as soon as I can. My second attack stack moves next to Nobamba

950 AD (7):

Some barbarian activity back in the home area, and I had stripped it. Leonus heads back along with a chariot. More on this at the end of the turnset.

The bombardment of Nobamba reduces it's defense to zero. The attack will be next turn.

Nocomedia is founded one south of the ruins of uMg, and we have immediate access to Ivory.

With increased happiness everywhere I am able to reassign workers so that Berlin is growing again.

960AD (8):

The turn starts with an announcement that we fail the horse whispering quest. Ah well, no big loss.

The Battle for Nobamba:

Note our spy up in Ondini, still making more contacts so he can steal the tech easier and with less expense.

1st cat 15% - dies quickly but wounds the elephant and three others
2nd cat, an unpromoted one, 53% dies also
3rd cat 92% retreats
4th cat, our barrage cat, trying to get it more exp, 91% retreats, and the defending stack is well chewed up.

Then 5 attacks at 98% or better and Nobamba is ours. I keep this even though it only has a granary. Research is now 20, -23/turn, CS in 6.

The fall of Nobamba is also important as it opens up trade routes to the southern civilizations! Here are the new trades at Const, compare with the previous one:

Going to continue the turn report in a new post.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Re-checking the last save, Sury and HC were willing to give us 40 and 50 respectively. This was all their gold. Go begging to boost the coffers. Also means they can't join Shaka and declare war on us for at least 10 turns.

Needless to say Toku wasn't willing to give us any.

 

[pholtz]

Dang, didn't think of begging. Too late, the turnset is done, I'm going back to edit the turnset report, should be done in a hour or so.

Edit: the previous report is complete up to the fall of Nobamba, starting a new post to continue from there.

 

[pholtz]

Continuing my turn set from the fall of Nobamba in 960

IBT Shaka attacks the damaged Nobamba attack stack with an Elephant. But a spear I had left behind kills the attacking Elephant!

970 (9):

I am finally able to two pop whip a courthouse in Ulundi. I move a very small stack next to Ondini. It only has one cat in it, but can start on the defenses while I move up some more units. Adria becomes unhappy because of war weariness, but a 3 pop whip is too much. Have to humor the rioters for a bit.

980 (10):

I check with Shaka, and he'll still only give us Calendar for peace. The spy in Ondini is now at -50% so I steal a tech.

I forgot to take a picture of the initial cost, but here is one after one turn, -10% savings.

And here is the same mission at -50% savings

So I think its well worth the wait if you don't need the tech immediately.

I choose

Spoiler :

990 (11):

I've reduced Ondini's defenses by now, and have moved many of the still wounded units from Nobamba up to help. It's time to take it. I seem to have missed taking a picture, sorry:

I just attack with one cat at 32%. It dies after wounding everyone.
Then an axe attacks at 68. It dies but wounds the defending axe enough that now the swords can attack.
Two swords defeat an HA and a defending sword at 90+ odds
An axe fights an Impi at 97 and kills it.
A Horse Archer finishes off the axe and I raze the city.

Things are happening a bit too fast. I need to get another settler made.

A Library is finished in Ulundi, with the help of a chop, start a granary.
Iron Will pops it's border and we finally get gold! Adria's happiness problem goes away.

I up science to 50 percent for one turn as I'll get CS that way. -48 gold for that one turn.

1000 AD (12):

Everyone expects the end of the world as the millennium comes to an end. But unless you are a citizen of Zululand, you'll have to wait.

However, there is a momentous event.

Spoiler :

Thessa completes a forge and starts a settler. I move what units I can next to kwa.....

1010 (13):

I got a bit careless. An Impi moved along a road and took a worker between Ulundi and Nobamba. I kill the imp with an axe, and as a result of that battle we get Scipio Africanus.

We'll have to save him for Hannibal . I'm really not sure what to do with him, and he remains in Berlin at the end of the turnset.

Antioch completes a granary and starts on a courthouse.

1020 (14):

Nobamba comes out of revolt. I almost start an attack on kwa.. but realize I'm in no big hurry as I still need a settler. I'll wait for more units.

1030 (15):

kwa...'s defenses reduced to zero.
Nicaea finishes a library, starts on a market
Nobamba 3 pop whips a courthouse and is still starving
A Zulu HA attacks Nobamba. A swordsman defends and the HA retreats badly wounded.

He attacks my stack next to kwa.. with a cat which dies. He doesn't do much damage to the stack either.

1040 (16):

Another sword in Nobamba finishes off the Zulu HA.
It's time for kwa to fall. Any city that starts it's name with three lower case characters doesn't deserve to remain standing.

unpromoted cat attacks at 12% and dies, but wounds most of the defenders
second cat attacks at 57 and retreats
third cat attacks at 78 and damages all defenders
I start picking low experience units to attack, to either die or distinguish themselves
swordsman kills a cat
axe attacks at 84, kills a Horse Archer
two HA attacks kill a defending HA and a sword
two swords attack two axe and kwa.. is no more.

I decide to wait a few turns to make peace with Shaka as I still need to get a settler there to found Gem City, and I need to be able to attack him if he moves a settler in that direction. A decision I'll come to regret, just the next turn.

1050 (17):

There was some discussion on whether this could happen with the most recent patch. Well, we've found out

So we have a new enemy, and no longer have the possibility of getting Calendar from Shaka in a peace. If I had only gone for peace the previous turn However I also saw the message that Toku would make peace. This is a bug in BUG, in that while whatever info it looks at to see if an AI will make peace, it forgets that while the AI is unwilling to talk peace cannot be made. I believe that as soon as this initial period of anger is over, peace can be made. There have been no battles with Toku.

I whip Iron Will's courthouse

Oh, The Temple of Solomon was built in a far away land.

1060 (18):

Thucydides doesn't think much of our culture

The settler is done and starts racing down to the gems. I start HE in Thessa. I hope this is a good choice.

1070 (19):

I experiment with reducing research to zero to get money for upgrades. But even at zero we don't make that much money. We will have to find another way. I manage to upgrade two experienced units to Mace.

1080 (20):

Berlin finishes it forge and I have it start making wealth
I switch to Bureaucracy and Caste System. Bureaucracy helps our money situation a bit even though our capital isn't that good. Should we think of moving it?

I had placed a spy in Sury land a while ago. It is now at -50% and....

Spoiler :

I also found Gem City 1 nw of the southern Gems. I know I am giving up on the Banana's and spice, but I'm not sure we would have gotten them anyway, if we had kept kwa... as we would have been in a culture war with HC.

Save coming.

 

[pholtz]

Here are a few pictures of the ending situation:

First in our core area, there have been a few sightings of barbarian activity. These need to be taken care of. I have also just now noticed that Antioch doesn't have any garrison

Here is the southern area. I had made a couple of signs to remind me of what to make. One worker is making a fort so we have a canal we can use. The other making a farm to extend irrigation to the Cornfield by Nico.

I think we need to work more on extending irrigation now that we have CS. I have a couple workers starting to extend irrigation up the coast towards Adria, another towards the grass fields west of Antioch.

The main stack of units is in Nobamba, all healed now. I've moved all units into our cultural area to save money. We are now at 30% research, losing a bit of gold per turn with only one city making wealth. A bit better than when I started I think.

We have enough units to raze another Shaka town if we wish. Toku still won't talk to us and we could make some money. Shaka has Longbows now, but very few units. We would lose some units but we seem to have plenty.

If we don't have the money for upgrades, we may just have to have Thessa churn out units, deleting those units that get replaced. If we don't attack another Shaka city perhaps we should delete a few units now, or as soon as we make peace with Toku.

Here is the save:

View attachment aCK-3 AD-1090 end of turnset.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[IamJohn]

Nice job! There's nothing you could have done imo about shaka vasseling to Toku (I thought that bug was fixed though..?). As long as we're doing okay we should try to eliminate shaka, since he'll most likely never be free again, and if I remember right, his opinion can affect the master AI's opinion of people (or at least I've seen it have weird effects). We do need to be careful- since everyone is so friendly it wouldn't be hard for Toku to bring in other people in the fight, and we really don't have the resources for 1 vs the world fight.

 

[The Simple Mind]

We're cetainly looking a lot healthier now .

Barb activity on land isn’t a problem. We have the great wall so a long as we stay in our borders we’re ok. Barb boats are a pain in the ass. We only have 2 seafood, so once Shaka is out of the way we should be able to defend them easily enough.

Shaka only has 3 cities left. Will we be able to wipe him out? I think we should. It'll get rid of the motherland unhappiness and his influence over Toku. We should use the spies to steal engineering and any other techs. Might as well use all our spy points before we eradicate him.

The Sury + HC begs are still available. Keeps them out of any war for at least 10 turns and will now boost our treasury by 160 gold.

 

[pholtz]

Sounds good. I believe you are up TSM. A little bit of war for you too I guess. You may want to start building more cats. I think you have enough for one city attack, but then may run short for any more. Might want to have one spy in Sury land to steal Engineering, the other in Zululand to steal whatever you can. Shaka may break from Toku after you take 1 or two cities.

lol, totally forgot we had the great wall.

 

[Whosit]

Hey, everybody! It's your friendly neighborhood Whosit here. I see that S.ilver is still MIA, so now I feel like I've left you all out to dry. Don't get me wrong, you've all been doing quite well! You are all especially good about discussing your moves between sets and pooling your collective knowledge. And I see that you've been rather successful on the military front so far, too. But, I also see that your economy is in the toilet and you've fallen behind on the tech race. While I'm not a finance wiz, I figured I'd take a look at what you've got so far and see if I can offer any useful suggestions. And I'll try to make it a more regular occurrence.

So, you have been quite diligent about building courthouses, which is good, but your research is down to 30%, losing money even with Berlin on wealth (and running too merchants). At a glance, one of the missing pillars from your civilization is a solid financial base. I see that you are running Caste System, but you are not leveraging it very well. Same with Representation. I'll do my best to address that, as well.

Actually, I'll address it now. Your civics set you up for a specialist economy, but as I mentioned, you're not using it optimally. To make the most of this, you'll want to hire as many specialists as is humanly possible. To do this, note that Food = Specialists. So, that means farms and bonus food resources. At the moment, I see two locations that are bests suited for this: Berlin and Ulundi, though nearby Nicomedia and even your capital could be used.

It's a shame you weren't able to get Calendar from trade, as it would probably help out your capital. Anyway.

Basically, Caste System lets you run an unlimited number of Scientists, Merchants, and Artists. The first two are very much economic specialists, while the latter has uses, such as "free" border pops. But you will probably want the first two. I'll take this one city at a time.

Berlin: Maximize food production. Basically, every flat land (prioritize grasslands) should be farmed, and nothing but farmed grasslands should be worked. You have workers scattered around this region, especially west of Thessalonica. Get them all working together on Berlin's farms. What this means is that food is more important than hammers right now, though you probably can keep working the Bronze mine and the plains wines until you have more farms.

Hm, ah, just noticed that Berlin is having health issues. Make an Aqueduct priority, not much else you can do until you get a Grocer. So, working preferably Food tiles that yield 3 or more, hire as many Merchants as possible. As more farms become available, reconfigure the city to get the best food yields possible, even if you have to fire a specialist temporarily. Since you have Rep, it's probably best to focus on gold income at the moment. You already have a Market, which is good.

Ulundi: It can't reach full potential until the war is over, or until you manage to clear the blockade, but you don't seem to have much sea power, so the latter is unlikely. Similar to Berlin, but steal Iron Will's Corn and work the Clams, too. Turn all of those immature cottages into farms. You may even want to get Compass to build Harbors with which to maximize the health of any seafood you get. Remember, Health also caps how many Citizens (i.e., specialists) you can have.

Hopefully, this gives you an idea about what to do for your other towns. Note: You don't want ALL of your towns on Specialist duty, preferably those that might not produce much hammers anyway. Berlin, for example, has a lot of hammer potential, but it will probably have to pull some economic weight until you get your empire back on its feet.

Don't forget that you have the Forbidden Palace available. It would be a very good idea to build it ASAP. Probably in Zulu Territory, beyond the mountains, but at the very least, far enough away from your capital to make the most impact. Heck, you may even want to consider a Palace move to a more central location since you expanded north from your starting point.

Speaking of, I know that you guys are drowning in cities and maintenance, but I'm quite surprised that you have not yet picked up any of the marble sources around you. There's a decent spot to the east of your capital that also has iron and (eventually) dyes. There's also a spot in the frigid German north, but it's not as attractive. For example, you're building the Heroic Epic, but it would go twice as fast with some Marble. Many mid-game wonders get production bonuses from Marble. Heck, it might even be worth it to delay the HE until you hook up Marble.

Another reason to get Plantations ASAP: Foreign trade. Don't ever neglect this! Good trade relations can make you float when you might otherwise sink.

A quick look at the Foreign trade screen shows some unused potential. Note that the wine trade to Capac can be renegotiated for an extra gpt. Suryavarman has 11 gpt available! Yes, you'll have to give up your only source of gems or silver, but none of your cities are close to reaching the happy cap right now, so it's probably a good bet.

The rice is very tempting, because it's worth +2 health in any city with a Granary (choose grains over farm animals, for example), but that would require giving up another +2 happy, so probably not worth it now. But! When you get all of your dyes connected by plantation, and your spices as well, you can renegotiate the gpt deal for a surplus item, and also trade for the health bonuses.

In fact, you may even want to settle a town to grab all of those furs, just to have more items to offer in trade.

One last thing on specialists: When you're going to run Merchants, build as many gold multipliers as you can in the appropriate towns. Bureaucracy does NOT increase Specialist Gold or Beakers, so you may want to reconfigure your Capital accordingly, whichever City it may be if you decide to move it. Speaking of, Constantinople could use an Aqueduct, maybe some more farms in place of the unworked Cottages. Don't neglect the importance of health!

Anyway, I hope I haven't been too harsh, and I hope my suggestions make sense. Also, you're paying 16 gpt for troops. I saw a small stack, including a Warrior and Chariot!, north of Thessalonica. You may want to consider Disbanding troops you don't need anymore. Also, Antioch still has no defense whatsoever. I think that your best bet is to get Peace as soon as possible, secure your borders, but demobilize while you work on your economy and infrastructure. Use your Workers as efficiently as possible, choosing high-priority jobs (like farms for Specialist cities) over less important things like redundant roads or improving tiles near cities that don't have the population to work them.

If I need to clarify anything or explain further, just say so. Hopefully this has been helpful. Again, I apologize if I have been too harsh; as I said before, you've all been doing quite well, but this was supposed to be a learning game and I've just let you all go at it alone. I'll try to check in more often, which will hopefully make it less likely that major reorientations in strategy are required.

 

[pholtz]

Hi General Whosit (yes, just finished reading aCK-2 )

Glad to see lurker comments. We can use all the help that's out there.

The main problem is that we have been a war, and I for one have trouble thinking about the economy when I'm fighting! (I do manage to walk and chew gum at the same time, if the surface is smooth )

Your civics set you up for a specialist economy, but as I mentioned, you're not using it optimally

Yes, we are caste and representation, but a specialist economy was never discussed. We have been switching back and forth between caste and slavery mostly to avoid any slave revolts and I've just switched to representation to help our economy a bit. We'll probably switch in and out of caste for a bit as we need slavery to whip new cities. Also we just got CS, so expanding our farm's just became an option. I'm not sure we can go totally specialist economy, but we do need to adopt some of your suggestions for sure.

but I'm quite surprised that you have not yet picked up any of the marble sources around you

None of the marble sites had any food and we didn't have very many good sites to put cities. But now that the Zulu war is wrapping up we probably do want to take over one of the marbles.

I'm going to take a look at our capital.

At minimum I think we need to do the following:

Farm the square one east of the corn to bring it irrigation. Farm over the cottage one east of the city because.. we just need more food . Obviously put plantations down where indicated when we get Calendar.

Not so obvious are the other cottages. We should probably keep that nice town on the dye. But all the other immature cottages could be replaced by farms to allow the city to grow to the happy cap. (This is optional, but might bring in more money sooner than waiting for those cottages to mature. I'm not sure about this). More money would be brought in by specialists and by working the sea. I am currently building a Trireme to help protect the clam spot where I have a work boat heading toward (right now for just the health benefit). We should probably build an aqueduct and lighthouse as soon as we can.

The big question is, do we want to move our capital. I am thinking Ulundi will be more centrally located in the future, and it will develop into a better production powerhouse to take advantage of bureaucracy. The forbidden palace in Berlin? or wait for a better location?

Speaking of Ulundi

I agree with Whosit here, we need to farm all the grass so we can work all the mines. Take over the wheat from Iron Will. Give Iron Will the grass two north of the city, farm it, and the grass north of that so Iron Will has (barely) enough food.

As far as the war with the Zulu. I don't think if we make peace, Shaka's hatred toward us will cause that much of a problem with Toku. And I think peace would be preferable to war for a couple reasons.

Shaka still has three techs we don't have. If we are careful and get the -50% cost in all three attempts I think we have enough spy points to get all three from him. It will however take a bit of time, time we won't have if we finish him off. (I think I said before to steal Engineering from Sury, but I didn't realize Shaka had it). Also we would greatly benefit from peace in that his blockades of our cities would be lifted and we could work the clams near Ulundi. So while I think its ok to raze one more city for the money while we wait for Toku to talk to us, I think we should make peace after that. The fight for the city will kill more of our units, which we have too many of, and if we stop then, we won't have to build any more. (we need to modernize though to get our power up).