Acronym's Bucket List Succession Game - sign-ups open!
- Thread starter Acronym
- Start date
I didn't want to throw 380g into their throat, so I took MilTrad+Democracy for Gravity+Magnetism.
I would have found giving them the gold preferable to giving them the tech, considering how useless Democracy is to us... but that's just me, I suppose...
On another note, who's up right now? I know we decided that CommandoBob can take it if he wants it, but he acted like he was still busy and needed to catch up a bit... this post I made a while ago showed the turn order after MrRandomGuy's set:
So, I think tjs is up if CommandoBob isn't available yet?
On another note, who's up right now? I know we decided that CommandoBob can take it if he wants it, but he acted like he was still busy and needed to catch up a bit... this post I made a while ago showed the turn order after MrRandomGuy's set:
So, I think tjs is up if CommandoBob isn't available yet?
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I've DL'd the savegame, but it will take me a while to play my turns, since I ought to spread it out over a couple of days this time (not least because there is now a lot more to manage
). Half our staff were on vacation in August, and although I made my (holiday-adjusted) workload quota last month, I still have a large backlog, because no-one could cover for me. That means late nights/early mornings midweek are really not a good idea right now (I can function the next day, but not at 100%, even with coffee). If everyone's OK with that, I'll have a look at the save on Monday evening, start playing on Tuesday, and post the save on Wednesday or Thursday. If CommandoBob can play/post sooner than that, he's more than welcome to take this turnset.In general...
Right now, based on Lanzelot's notes it seems that our main priorities for the next 20-30T are basically going to be war to clear everyone off our continent (i.e. railroading tiles for productivity increases/transport + unit-builds using our latest tech), while also doing research to get us to Hoovers, i.e. RepParts --> Medicine --> SciMeth --> AtomThe --> Electronics, and then putting up factories in the high-shield cities for the Hoover-boost.
As far as Wonder-(pre)builds go, it seems agreed that we go for Hoovers (800s) and ToE (600s) regardless. Using the Trondheim MilAc as a prebuild for Hoovers seems like a good idea, if K'berg is still building its Uni, since München needs to be building military.
If SETI (1000s) is worth it for a high-science city, then I think we should go for it as well: K'stadt will lose the Colossus-commerce advantage as soon as we obtain Flight (which should probably therefore be the last IndAge tech we buy/research), and it would be good to have a replacement science-booster in the works -- so my inclination would be to start (pre)building SETI right now (since it will take such a long time to complete), use O'stadt for ToE (in 20-25T or so?), and pre-build TheInternet in K'berg, once it's finished its Uni...
We may also need to be prepared to shift our prebuilds around between Palace, MilAc, Shakespeare's, Adam Smith's, etc. (I don't think anyone's built Bach yet either, have they...?) as those techs become available to us and/or someone else builds the associated Wonder (might it be worth trading for the optional MidAge techs just to give us a wider range of prebuilds, at least until we can get Ecology/ SolarPlants?). If we finish the MilAc, Armies can also serve as prebuilds -- and so can TacNukes/ICBMs if someone's built Manhattan (but that will be more useful for the Spaceship parts than the Wonders we need to get us there).
The UN I am not so concerned about. The Mongols are almost certainly going to run away on their side of the ocean, which means that if and when the UN gets built, any vote held will be down to them vs. us (plus whoever built the UN if neither of us did -- which I think is unlikely unless someone gets it 'accidentally' during a cascade). And if we're the only 2 civs left, the vote will be inconclusive (1:1). If there are any other civs left by that point, they will most likely hate the Mongols but be indifferent/ friendly towards us:
- If there's only one other civ left (maybe the Indians?), they're most likely to abstain (1:1:0) -- or even vote for us if they like us enough, in which case we could abstain, and make the vote inconclusive ourselves.
- If there are still 2 other Civs still alive, it gets more interesting -- but since a 3:1 vote would be needed to win in that case, even if they both loathe the Mongols but love us, we can still keep the result inconclusive by abstaining -- 2:1:0 doesn't work.
- Only if there are still 3 other Civs still on the boards does the outcome become significantly difficult to predict/control, and I don't think that's going to happen (and if it does, we can always annoy someone by trying to plant spies or something).
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I'll take the next turnset. Strategy Post later today or tomorrow and (with good luck) have everything done by Friday night.
It's too early to prebuild for SETI- it costs 1000 shields, yes, but we're still in the early IA- even if we research really quickly we're probably still at least 50 turns away from Computers. Starting a prebuild for that is more of a Mid-Late IA thing.
Has anyone even researched Music Theory yet?
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Republic
000% Tax
100% Science
000% Luxury
78 gold, -5 gpt
Replaceable Parts in 5 turns.
City Builds
City Build Recap
Newton's Universtiy [1] (Oasenstadt)
Marketplace [5]
University [1] (Königsberg)
Palace [1] (Kosossusstadt)
Cavalry [6]
courthouse [4]
Galleon [1] (Birka)
Library [3]
Aqueduct [2]
Worker [3]
Harbor [1] (Alesund)
Rifleman [2]
Military Academy [1] (Trondheim)
Resources
01 Coal
01 Saltpeter (Mongols 15 turns)
01 Iron
01 Horses
Luxuries
01 Wines
01 Furs (Japan, 6 turns)
01 Dyes
01 Spices (Mongols, 15 turns)
01 Ivory (India, expired but ongoing)
02 Silks
City Count
35 Mongols
31 Germany (Acronym01 People)
25 England
20 India
15 Japan
01 China
Military
Compared to Japan (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to China (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to Mongols (Democracy) we are Weak.
Compared to India (Democracy) we are Average.
We are at peace with everybody.
Worker Tasks(NW to SE)
Making railroads. Except in England.
Notes
No settlers in production.
We share our continent with England.
We are importing Saltpeter from the Mongols. There is an unclaimed Saltpeter between Birka and Karasjok. Why haven't we claimed it?
We have four eKnights in a Galleon NW of Hamburg. What are the plans for the galleon and Knights? It is two turns away from Hamburg.
(Thinking out loud here) We have 26 workers and 35 slaves. Three workers are in the Walstadt-Westenburgberg-Fischberg (WWF) area and two slaves are chopping a forest by Richmond, This leaves 23 workers and 33 slaves available for railing. Railing flatland takes 6WT. I like to keep workers and slaves in seperate stacks as much as possible but that may not be possible at the moment.
Trading
We have an ongoing trade with India. We send Silks and Wines and we get Ivory and 5 gpt.
We have a similar situtaion with the Mongols. We send Wines, we get 9 gpt.
War with England
Our footsoldiers will leave Neu-osloh and head south to Liverpool, staying in jungles the entire way. Our mounted forces in Bananenbucht will head south to Warwick and Nottingham.
We have many cities making vCavlary but we have some than can produce 4 turn Cavalry, if we can get their net shields to 20 per turn with railing. That needs to be done.
We have ten slaves at Trondhiem. Need two more slaves to give us 12, which will let us rail one tile per turn, until we get Replaceable Parts.
Since war is coming, we need to first get our core cities where they net 20 spt, even if this slows down our connecting all our cities on the rail net. We need that production sooner.
However, we will also want to rail to our new conquests.
Are we planning to keep or raze any English cities we capture?
Would it be wise to wait until we Replaceble Parts, and the faster workers, before we declare war?
Do we want any Infantry or Artillery, once we can build them (assuming we have Rubber)?
I think that if we take our England and occupy our continent, we will be fine.
However, we need to attack England soon, before they learn Nationalism.
I'm fine with dropping research to zero for a turn, or maybe two (as long as we don't waste the forest chop at Richmond), get some cash to rush rRifles in London and Richmond and then declare on England. I hate to delay getting Replaceable Parts and its trio of doom (Infantry, Artillery and Faster Workers) but I think we need to.
Next city Builds
Military -> Military.
Newton's University -> Cavalry/Infantry?
Kolossusstadt: Palace prebuild for what wonder?
Markets -> University (if not one) or military.
What of Königsberg? University -> barracks -> military?
Miscellaneous
No one is building JS Bach's Cathedral.
Replaceable Parts -> (Medicine or Industrialization) ?
Long Term Plans
Get into Space
Mid Range Plans
Own our own continent.
Short Range Plans
Drop science to zero on this turn, get some cash, rush the Rifles in Richmond and London in two turns (lets the forest chop in Richmond finish and gives us some extra cash for short rushing units whlle we get our cities with barracks to 20spt) and then delcare war on England.
Learn Replaceable Parts this turnset at 100% science when we start learning again. Not sure what to research next.
Capture Liverpool with Maces. Then head to Hastings.
Capture Warwick and Nottingham with Kngihts and Cavalry.
Mostly defend and ambush along the London-Hastings line.
Attack from Warwick towards Gloucester, Leeds and Newcastle (makes the Walstadt-Westenburgberg-Fischberg Area much safer).
And then start moving south along the west coast of England, using Richmond as the pivot point.
Get select core cities up to 20 spt (net) with railing.
Send two slaves to Trondheim to help rail, will make 12 slaves railing around Trondheim.
Rail towrads the front lines.
Rail to all of our current cities.
000% Tax
100% Science
000% Luxury
78 gold, -5 gpt
Replaceable Parts in 5 turns.
City Builds
- Oasenstadt (12) Newton's University in 2, grows in 34.
- Bergen (4) market in 4, grows in 7.
- Königsberg (9) university in 4, grows in 3.
- Kolossusstadt (12) Palace in 100, zero growth.
- Hamburg (12) vCavalry in 4, zero growth.
- Stockholm (2) courthouse in 35, grows in 10.
- Birka (1) rGalleon in 39, grows in 1.
- Aarhus (7) market in 11, grows in 11.
- Eisenstadt (10) vCavalry in 7, zero growth.
- Stavanger (2) library in 17, grows in 1.
- München (12) vCavalry in 3, grows in 38.
- Die Siedler von Catan (8) vCavalry in 1, grows in 8.
- Neu-Osloh (1) market in 8, grows in 14.
- Wilhelmshaven (11) vCavalry in 10, grows in 4.
- Goldstadt (7) vCavalry in 1, grows in 13.
- Walstadt (6) aqueduct in 7, grows in 1.
- Odense (4)courthouse in 37, grows in 4.
- Hareid (6) aqueduct in 31, zero growth.
- Molde (2) worker in 5, grows in 5.
- Alesund (1) harbor in 27, grows in 14.
- Bananenbucht (7) market in 11, grows in 14.
- Richmond (2) rRifle in 70, grows in 19.
- Bodo (1) worker in 6, grows in 2.
- Fischberg (8) market in 10, grows in 29.
- Wesenburgberg (5) library in 11, grows in 4.
- Karasjok (1) worker in 6, grows in 4.
- Weizenheim (7) library in 5, grows in 5.
- Brandenburg (1) courthouse in 65, grows in 1.
- Potsdam (1) courthhouse in 54, grows in 5.
- Trondheim (11) Military Academy in 21, grows in 7.
- London (2) rRifle in 70, grows in 3.
City Build Recap
Newton's Universtiy [1] (Oasenstadt)
Marketplace [5]
University [1] (Königsberg)
Palace [1] (Kosossusstadt)
Cavalry [6]
courthouse [4]
Galleon [1] (Birka)
Library [3]
Aqueduct [2]
Worker [3]
Harbor [1] (Alesund)
Rifleman [2]
Military Academy [1] (Trondheim)
Resources
01 Coal
01 Saltpeter (Mongols 15 turns)
01 Iron
01 Horses
Luxuries
01 Wines
01 Furs (Japan, 6 turns)
01 Dyes
01 Spices (Mongols, 15 turns)
01 Ivory (India, expired but ongoing)
02 Silks
City Count
35 Mongols
31 Germany (Acronym01 People)
25 England
20 India
15 Japan
01 China
Military
- 26 Worker
- 35 Slaves
- 01 Horeseman
- 04 Pike
- 09 Knight
- 09 Rifles
- 08 Cavlary
- 02 Galleon
- 01 Army
- 10 Maces
- 01 Army (Cavalry)
- 07 Mace
- Current Units: 70
- Allowed Units: 61
- Support Costs: 18 gpt
Compared to Japan (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to China (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to Mongols (Democracy) we are Weak.
Compared to India (Democracy) we are Average.
We are at peace with everybody.
Worker Tasks(NW to SE)
Making railroads. Except in England.
Notes
No settlers in production.
We share our continent with England.
We are importing Saltpeter from the Mongols. There is an unclaimed Saltpeter between Birka and Karasjok. Why haven't we claimed it?
We have four eKnights in a Galleon NW of Hamburg. What are the plans for the galleon and Knights? It is two turns away from Hamburg.
(Thinking out loud here) We have 26 workers and 35 slaves. Three workers are in the Walstadt-Westenburgberg-Fischberg (WWF) area and two slaves are chopping a forest by Richmond, This leaves 23 workers and 33 slaves available for railing. Railing flatland takes 6WT. I like to keep workers and slaves in seperate stacks as much as possible but that may not be possible at the moment.
Trading
We have an ongoing trade with India. We send Silks and Wines and we get Ivory and 5 gpt.
We have a similar situtaion with the Mongols. We send Wines, we get 9 gpt.
War with England
Our footsoldiers will leave Neu-osloh and head south to Liverpool, staying in jungles the entire way. Our mounted forces in Bananenbucht will head south to Warwick and Nottingham.
We have many cities making vCavlary but we have some than can produce 4 turn Cavalry, if we can get their net shields to 20 per turn with railing. That needs to be done.
We have ten slaves at Trondhiem. Need two more slaves to give us 12, which will let us rail one tile per turn, until we get Replaceable Parts.
Since war is coming, we need to first get our core cities where they net 20 spt, even if this slows down our connecting all our cities on the rail net. We need that production sooner.
However, we will also want to rail to our new conquests.
Are we planning to keep or raze any English cities we capture?
Would it be wise to wait until we Replaceble Parts, and the faster workers, before we declare war?
Do we want any Infantry or Artillery, once we can build them (assuming we have Rubber)?
I think that if we take our England and occupy our continent, we will be fine.
However, we need to attack England soon, before they learn Nationalism.
I'm fine with dropping research to zero for a turn, or maybe two (as long as we don't waste the forest chop at Richmond), get some cash to rush rRifles in London and Richmond and then declare on England. I hate to delay getting Replaceable Parts and its trio of doom (Infantry, Artillery and Faster Workers) but I think we need to.
Next city Builds
Military -> Military.
Newton's University -> Cavalry/Infantry?
Kolossusstadt: Palace prebuild for what wonder?
Markets -> University (if not one) or military.
What of Königsberg? University -> barracks -> military?
Miscellaneous
No one is building JS Bach's Cathedral.
Replaceable Parts -> (Medicine or Industrialization) ?
Long Term Plans
Get into Space
Mid Range Plans
Own our own continent.
Short Range Plans
Drop science to zero on this turn, get some cash, rush the Rifles in Richmond and London in two turns (lets the forest chop in Richmond finish and gives us some extra cash for short rushing units whlle we get our cities with barracks to 20spt) and then delcare war on England.
Learn Replaceable Parts this turnset at 100% science when we start learning again. Not sure what to research next.
Capture Liverpool with Maces. Then head to Hastings.
Capture Warwick and Nottingham with Kngihts and Cavalry.
Mostly defend and ambush along the London-Hastings line.
Attack from Warwick towards Gloucester, Leeds and Newcastle (makes the Walstadt-Westenburgberg-Fischberg Area much safer).
And then start moving south along the west coast of England, using Richmond as the pivot point.
Get select core cities up to 20 spt (net) with railing.
Send two slaves to Trondheim to help rail, will make 12 slaves railing around Trondheim.
Rail towrads the front lines.
Rail to all of our current cities.
The Galleon was returning from destroying a city the Vikings had on an island.
We haven't connected the Saltpeter yet because until a few turns ago it was in Viking territory.
I don't think Artillery is really a necessity quite yet- England doesn't have Saltpeter, so they're stuck with early-MA units until they research Nationalism.
I think we're mostly going to capture English cities rather than razing them, but it sort of depends. Earlier we wanted to avoid razing to keep the AI's from getting pissed, but we've now broken two ROP deals and we're about to break a Peace Treaty by declaring war on England, so, not sure we really care what they think anymore...
The plan for research is Medicine->Scientific Method I think, we're sort of hoping Mongolia will research Industrialization for us (not likely, but it could happen)
Railing the core to get everything to 20+ spt is important, but we should probably also make sure we can get everything to the front lines before we declare war.
We haven't connected the Saltpeter yet because until a few turns ago it was in Viking territory.
I don't think Artillery is really a necessity quite yet- England doesn't have Saltpeter, so they're stuck with early-MA units until they research Nationalism.
I think we're mostly going to capture English cities rather than razing them, but it sort of depends. Earlier we wanted to avoid razing to keep the AI's from getting pissed, but we've now broken two ROP deals and we're about to break a Peace Treaty by declaring war on England, so, not sure we really care what they think anymore...
The plan for research is Medicine->Scientific Method I think, we're sort of hoping Mongolia will research Industrialization for us (not likely, but it could happen)
Railing the core to get everything to 20+ spt is important, but we should probably also make sure we can get everything to the front lines before we declare war.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
But even with rails, K'stadt has/will have a very low (8? 10?) SPT, so it will need a lot of turns to prebuild, and if we're going to build SETI there, we should be aiming to have it done as soon as possible after we get Flight (which should also be our last IndAge research/purchase priority).
I don't think it will take as long as 50T to get to the ModAge either. Even if we can't already do 4-5T research ourselves without negative GPT, we should soon be able to (with the extra rail-commerce and Unis in all our core cities), and we're going down the 'Wonder' branch of the tech-tree. I think we can count on the Mongols going down the 'military-industrial' branch (with a little encouragement if necessary!), so if we trade carefully with them, swapping our monopoly Wonder-techs (just before we build said Wonder!) for their Mil/Ind techs, I think we can be in the ModAge in maybe 30-40T at most.
And having done so, even if we get Ecology as our freebie, completing ToE in O'stadt (which will take 30T at 20SPT -- or 20T at 30SPT) will give us Computers and Miniaturization in one shot, and we can then switch the K'stadt prebuild to SETI, and the K'berg prebuild to Internet (and if we get an SGL for any of our research efforts, we'll be laughing all the way to Alpha Centauri).
Also, I posted 'yesterday' just before going to bed, and I was tired. After I woke up this morning, I realised that it's not my turn next after Bob...
Spoiler :
I believe it should actually be MRG on deck after C'Bob's turns, not me. Unless there is a lurker out there who would like to take Acronym's now-confirmed vacant sixth slot...?
The Mongols are still 4 techs behind: Gravity, Nationalism, Steam Power and Electricity. (Nationalism is an optional tech, but the AI places so high value on it, that we would have to gift it to the Mongols as well, if we wanted to keep them from sinking their beakers into it...
)The Mongols just finished Free Artistry 1-2 turns ago and then traded it for one of the two techs we gave England for Military Tradition. (So giving the English 380g + one tech wouldn't have made a difference to giving them two techs: they would have given that one tech to the Mongols, just like they did now, and I'm confident that we can eliminate them, before they give that second tech to anyone. I did not pay attention, but to me it feels like it took the Mongols 20 turns to research Free Artistry. So the next tech is also to be expected in around 20 turns, and it shouldn't take us that long to eliminate England.)
But anyway: I think the plan now is to keep the AI backward in order to be able to build ToE undisturbedly? (Otherwise I would have gifted all required techs to the Mongols already at the beginning of my turnset. But now the chances are indeed very slim, that they manage to research Industrialization in time...)
So I'm in favor of keeping the AI backward. Only an outdated tech once in a while for gold, luxuries or Music Theory.
In that case I think Industrialization is the best tech after RepParts. Then we can start our factories right away, even the current prebuilds can still be converted to factories.
We have 13 techs to go, and we can't do 4-turn resarch yet (except for Medicine), so let's be conservative and count on 5 turns per tech. That would mean 65 turns until our prebuilds for ToE, SETI and Internet need to be ready. (Perhaps we can get a few techs in 4, so I guess it'll be more like 60 turns from now.)
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Thanks. I knew I was missing something.
We also have Saltpeter near Richmond, so even if we don't get one of these connected right away, we still have 15 turns of Saltpeter from the Mongols.
What part of England will be considered 'core' and what part will be considered 'science farms'?
Warwick and Nottingham we need to keep for a turn or so just to give us a clear path to London. Once we capture some more cities, especially Newcastle, the path to London will not be controlled by English culture and we can move more freely.
We don't have any settlers in production but now that we are expanding again we need some.
I would nominate Westenburgberg, Wilhelmshaven, Aarhus, Odense and Stavanger as places where we could squeeze out a settler and then set them back onto what they are building now.
But again, this depends on what we are going to do with the English lands, and I may have missed that discussion.
A dot map of 'our' England would be helpful.
At the moment I am thinking of dividing our workers/slaves into four groups; one for core optimization, one for front line communications, one for inter-city connectivity and the last one for Trondheim.
We'll have to see how that actually works out.
We didn't have a discussion about that point yet, but my vote goes for keeping the English cities. On Emperor there is really no need for "raze and replace". If we see more than 1-2 flips in the entire campaign, it will already qualify as "bad luck". And even if a town flips, reinforcement Cavs on the way to the front can retake it already the next turn. (Thanks to our railways.) Just remember: even London, the capital, which is usually one of the culture-richest cities of an AI, did not flip back during the last 15-20 turns where it was in our possession!
I expect that we can capture quite a few granaries, aqueducts or courthouses still intact, and it would be a shame to let all those shields go up in smoke... Not to speak of all the population that can be converted into settlers, workers and science farms. (Our core really can't afford building settlers/workers now - we need to do it in captured English territory.)
We should aim at eliminating the British rather quickly, then there is no more danger of flips. Just don't keep any large numbers of units inside captured cities. That avoids unpleasant surprises (I once lost 3 Cav Armies in a flip...
) and it also avoids losing population: as long as the citizens are resistors, they don't eat food, so the city doesn't starve! So we can immediately use the population after the war. If we quell too many resistors, the cities will start starving, losing precious population.
We are way behind schedule in bringing our core up to size. Also, during a war settlers and new-found towns easily run the risk of getting lost... We can rush (or disband some obsolete units) all required settlers in British crap towns after the war.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
But there's no point keeping/building any improvements in a 1-shield town, is there? They cost maintenance, but the trade/production multiplier effects are nullified by the corruption/waste (at least while the town is still under Pop6). And we won't need to store food for faster growth (because all the food-tiles will be irrigated+railed), and we won't want to let the town grow above Pop6, because we may not be able to keep the extra civizens happy without a Market. (Or will we -- if we have enough Luxes hooked up?). If we're lucky, maybe a Courthouse will give us 2gpt/spt instead of 1gpt/spt, but it probably won't.
Unless I'm missing something, the only value of capturing lots of city-improvements seems to be that we can then get some extra gold from selling off those improvements, which will help to fund the cash-rushed slaves we're going to take out of those cities as well. What's annoying though is that for some reason the Firaxis programmers decided that the player would not be allowed to sell off unwanted 'Ducts (or Hospitals), even though a 'Duct eats 1gpt. So the only way to get rid of a 'Duct in a 1-shield town is to get rid of the town itself -- and if we want to avoid annoying the AICivs, we'll have to Settler-abandon it (which @ 1spt will take time or money: between 30T + 0g, and 1T + 116g) and then immediately rebuild...
Is that the plan, or do we let towns with freshwater access/'Ducts grow to Pop12, and just make 6 or 7 scientists instead of 2 or 3 (should be possible, if 5-6 of the town's BFC tiles are each producing 3-4 FPT, and/or we have lots of Luxes hooked up)?
This is a Standard-size 70% Continents map at Emperor difficulty, so how many non-95% corrupt cities do we actually get? IIRC, at Regent on those Map settings it's around 20, but I believe that's reduced at higher difficulties, is that right? (I did a quick search through CFC, but I didn't find a table giving the default numbers). But we've got (or are planning to build) at least 20 cities in or near our core already, and the 'distance' component of corruption in C3C is based entirely on 'distance to Palace'. That means that most if not all of the English cities will become 1-shield towns after we capture them, since our 20-odd 1st and 2nd-ring cities are (or will be) all closer to O'stadt than the English cities are.
EDIT:
My bad -- didn't read far enough through Alexman's thread. When I got to page 5, I found what looks like the answer, in a (somewhat whiny) post from TruePurple. Looks like OCN at Emperor = 20*80% = 16. So we're definitely over that already, just with our 1st-ring cities.
So CommandoBob, if we're going to turn all our new acquisitions into science farms, and then just spam out Settlers to fill in the gaps between them in an ICS pattern, a dotmap for the (currently) English lands isn't really needed -- just put towns wherever we can fit them in a CxCxC pattern, and then juggle worked tiles to give enough food excess that up to 50% of the civizens can become scientists. I do have a question though -- we're going to Slave-shrink the science-farms down to Pop1 and then let them regrow to their coded Pop-limit, but once they're growing again, what do we set them to build with their 1spt? Reg mil-units? Artillery? Wealth? Walls/Barracks (which we then sell)? Something else?
- Some of the British territory is still close enough to the Palace, that it could qualify as third-ring. So here a courthouse may actually yield 3-4 gold and 1-2 extra shields. Enough to be worth-while, if we capture them.
- As we first want to "harvest" the slaves in captured cities (someone will have to rail all those grasslands for the science farms...), they will need to regrow back to size. And with a captured granary that is achieved twice as fast.
- An aqueduct in a town with enough grasslands around, can feed 6-7 scientists by sending 6-5 peasants into the fields. Happiness is not a problem in these cities, even without a marketplace, as they'll have 6-7 specialists, which are always content, and the remaining 6-5 citizens can be kept content by our 4-5 luxuries.
Of course in a 1spt town we wouldn't be able to build any of these buildings, but if we can capture them intact, they do provide some not-to-be-neglected benefit. No need to burn these down.
What can these towns build at 1spt? I usually let them build ships. (Once the time has come for an invasion somewhere, I just rush the remaining shields at that point.) Inland towns can indeed build artillery, if we still plan a war, or wealth otherwise. Or workers, if it has hit size 6 with and still has surplus food.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Wow, I didn't realise they were still so far behind when I posted yesterday. In that case, I agree we probably won't need to gift them anything -- if your rough calculation of their research rate is correct, at 5T-research we can probably finish around half the non-optional IndAge techs before the Mongols are even out of the MedAge (only the English are really large enough to help them -- but not for long...
).Once they are, then based on this, it seems a good bet that they (and any other remaining AICivs) will most likely 'prioritise' Nationalism --> [Steam --> Commie (or vice versa)] --> Industry --> Corp... and in the time it takes them to do that, we could have researched many of the remaining obligatory techs.
It's highly unlikely that the Mongols (or anyone else) will go for Medicine before Corp, because it's an 'empty' tech (and now the Koreans are out, no-one's going to get it for free and trade it). Electricity has a similarly lower selection probability vs. e.g. Refining (because showing a resource has a much higher weight than giving Workers a new ability). Put that together, and the AI is effectively locked into researching to Flight before it goes along the middle and lower branches of the tree, and we can count on a near-zero likelihood of our Wonder-builds being jeopardised.
So we would be relatively safe in gifting the Mongols all the way to Combustion as we get those techs (keeping Electricity and Medicine to ourselves) and 'allowing' them to research Flight for us (while we finish off MassProd, MotorTransp and Radio) -- this might save us 4-5T.
This still seems unduly pessimistic -- we are nearly done with RepParts, so it's more like 12 required techs. And once we have RepParts, our GPT (=BPT) should also increase because of the double-speed installation of rail links. But if we are going to have to do (nearly) everything ourselves, I'm now more inclined to go with Choxorn's 50T estimate...
There are 5 turns left on RepParts, which is right inside our "average", so we can count it like 13 techs.
And sure: our income will increase, but so will the tech prices... E.g.: RepPart (which took us 6 turns) is 4200 beakers, Atomic Theory 6000 beakers. I don't see, how our research output can increase from currently ~780 bpt to 1500 bpt (which would be required to do AT in 4 turns). That's a 100% increase within the next 50 turns or so. Impossible. We'll be lucky if we can do AT in 5 turns (1200 bpt).
You are British, right? Do you want to place a bet?
I say at least 60 turns from now.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
We haven't discussed what to build next in the capital or in Kolossusstadt or Königsberg.
These are major cities and if they need to be doing something special for a big payoff later, now would be a good time to mention that. Otherwise, I'll switch Königsberg and the capital to military production for this turnset, as they finish up their current production assignments.
Yes, the ones that complete their infrastructure (market, lib, university and where appropriate aqueduct, harbor, courthouse) can build a bit more military. And once Industrialization comes into sight, they can start a factory-prebuild.
Similar threads
