Adding Canada to the civ world

[Kyriakos]

Still population matters a lot when it comes to political power. Austria probably is richer per capita than germany, but with a population of less than 10 mil it isnt in any position to influence anyone by itself. Also the fact that Canada is right over the current superpower doesnt help much in its quest to be politically significant

 

[I_batman]

if canadas a colony....what would a independent quebec be???? i dont think they should be a civ either but a colony...please..on of only a few countries to have a trillion dollor economy. and the smallest with a trillion dollar economy...some colony

Thanks for posting logic. Don't think colonies are part of the G8.
I am a very proud Canadian, and I also agree that we should not have a separate civ in the new, or old game.

I really don't think Canada, while a significant player on the world stage in the past, has the legacy of a long history to be classified as a "civilization". If the country was a few hundred years older, then yes. Canadians have accomplished quite a few things that have altered the course of humanity, but just not for a long enough period.
Same goes for the U.S. Clearly, the U.S. is the most powerful player on the world stage. Historians will be discussing the American empire in the same tones as the Roman empire in the future, but for now, the U.S. has just not been around long enough to be considered a civ, in my opinion.

 

[Giio]

Technically hasnt canada been an actual nation for less then 50 years? before that werent we just a colony of the british?

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

It's been independent since 1867
It has had control of foreign affairs since 1932
Got control of its constitution in 1982

 

[jwijn]

I'm not saying that Canada is not worthy of being considered a country. It's multicultural, socialistic culture is quite laudable. However, it falls short of being considered a great civilization. All the other civilizations bring some history-shaping characteristic or event to the table. Frankly, Canada just hasn't altered the course of history, and thus allowing other more prominent civilizations to take its place.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Am I the only Canadian in this thread who's watched the CBC series "Canada: A People's History?"

In prehistoric times, humans crossed from Europe and Asia tens of thousands of years B.C.E. The first documented case of modern Europeans setting foot in Canada was c. 1000 C.E., when Leif Eriksson's expedition built their outpost at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland.

I'm not sure just when the first documented case was of Europeans setting foot south of the 49th parallel--but it was considerably later than 1000 C.E. (several hundred years! ).

 

[Superkrest]

even though i love canada..i must hold true to my opinions that canada and the us shouldnt be in civ... i think the game should only include cultures of old history..and north america would be better repersented with native cultures..but i understand the superpower thing cant be denied..and the fact that they will sell more in the us then the world combined...so ill leave it at that.


and just as a side note..found some intresting things on population and economy for varwnos. in us dollars.
1.GREECE-total gnp 226.4 billion, per capita inc-21,300, pop.10,600,000(est.2005)
2.AUSTRIA-total gnp 255.9 billion, per capita inc-31,300, pop.8,184,690

3.GERMANY-total gnp 2.36 trillion, pre capita inc-28,700, pop. 82,000,000

4.CANADA- total gnp 1.023 trillion, per capita inc-31,500, pop. 32,000,000

 

[searcheagle]

It's been independent since 1867
It has had control of foreign affairs since 1932
Got control of its constitution in 1982

An Independent nation has control of BOTH its foreign affairs AND its constitution. Therefore, by your own time line, Canada has been an indendepent nation for around 23 years.

If a "nation" does not have control of its foreign affairs and its constitution, it is not INDEPENDENT.

 

[searcheagle]

Am I the only Canadian in this thread who's watched the CBC series "Canada: A People's History?"

In prehistoric times, humans crossed from Europe and Asia tens of thousands of years B.C.E. The first documented case of modern Europeans setting foot in Canada was c. 1000 C.E., when Leif Eriksson's expedition built their outpost at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland.

I'm not sure just when the first documented case was of Europeans setting foot south of the 49th parallel--but it was considerably later than 1000 C.E. (several hundred years! ).

I fail to see how this relates to whether Canada should be a Civ in Civ 4 or not.

 

[Urederra]

and just as a side note..found some intresting things on population and economy for varwnos. in us dollars.
1.GREECE-total gnp 226.4 billion, per capita inc-21,300, pop.10,600,000(est.2005)
2.AUSTRIA-total gnp 255.9 billion, per capita inc-31,300, pop.8,184,690

3.GERMANY-total gnp 2.36 trillion, pre capita inc-28,700, pop. 82,000,000

4.CANADA- total gnp 1.023 trillion, per capita inc-31,500, pop. 32,000,000

Those are the figures I was expecting. But anyway, if you look at the which countries are on top at the present, then you have to leave out Egypt, Rome, Babylon, the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Iroquois, etc. etc. It is not about current position, it is a bit about history and who was at the top at certain point in history and a bit about geography, just to put some civilizations from each continent (except Australia, Australia doesn't count , sorry aussies and kiwies, next time)


Edit: @Valka

And what's CBC? Did you mean C3C, the second expansion?


.
.
.
.
.
.

.
Yeah, I know, the Canadian Broadcasting company, or something like than, the Canadian public? TV.

 

[Kyriakos]

10,6 million? maybe if you dont count all those illegal slavs i was pretty sure that the official count was 11 mil though

 

[sealman]

Errr ... no. You're way, way, way off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier

Aircraft manufacturing is a huge part of Bombardier, for instance they own Learjet. But railway manufacturing is probably an even bigger portion of their business; after the acquisition of Adtranz, Bombardier is the world's leading manufacturer of rail systems equipment for everything from high-speed rail lines to subways and monorails.

I have to agree here. I kill my knees every morning and afternoon going to and from work on some of those Bobardier Train Coaches.

 

[Superkrest]

10,6 million? maybe if you dont count all those illegal slavs i was pretty sure that the official count was 11 mil though

you live there..i just got that from the CIA's world fact book...it was pretty close to 11.

uredera...i wasnt using it to show supperoity....i just putting them down because varwnos had a hunch..and it was right for the most part.

 

[Ghafhi]

hope that tora bora and udu budu make the list before Canada. Canada is not a civlization by any terms except that the people have money and technology which is a direct result from them kissing up to america and england

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

And America is a civilization?

 

[Ghafhi]

Yes. America is the great civlization of the 21st century admired by all even those who wish to destroy it. No culture is nearly as strong as american in history except rome. People from Azjerban to Zimbabwe all want to live like americans

 

[Nyvin]

I'd have to agree that Canada definately got to where it is today by suckering up to Britain and the US. They're the only reason Canada is a trillion dollar economy, and without them they probably wouldn't be here right now.

They have no unique culture, just a mixture of Brittish, French (Quebec), and American. They're hardly a real country, a very young one at that. They aren't a world power currently, and they have no real impact in historical times....how can it possibly be considered to add Canada to any Civ game???? I'd go for adding the Eskimos before them honestly...

 

[Truronian]

The reason Canada is a trillion dollar economy is because it is large and abundant in natural resources. If they aren't a world power currently, then why are they included in the G8 summits.

And saying they haven't got a unique culture is weak. After all the US culture is just a mix of British, Latin and African American cultures.

Yes. America is the great civlization of the 21st century admired by all even those who wish to destroy it. No culture is nearly as strong as american in history except rome. People from Azjerban to Zimbabwe all want to live like americans

This is debateable. America is not admired by those that wish to destroy it. After all, the reason that the 9/11 terrorists did what they did was that they saw America as a decadent country that was an insult to their God. As for the American culture thing, I believe there have been stronger cultures. For example, British culture spread around the globe during the height of their power (the reason so many speak English), without the use of mass-marketing and modern transport systems. In addition I would argue that Britain is the current cultural capital of the world, in terms of art, music and literature.

I can clarify that American culture does not recieve world-wise praise. I know several people who detest America for some of its actions and exports (I am not one of these people, I believe American super-powerdom has had a positive impact).

I believe that Canada should be included, just because many players of Civ hail from there (how many Civ players live in Mali). After all there are many who believe the US should not be in Civ, but thats not going to happen for the same reason.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I fail to see how this relates to whether Canada should be a Civ in Civ 4 or not.

I've noticed that quite a few American posters here keep sneering at the fact that Canada has officially existed as Canada for a relatively short time in comparison to other countries, and is therefore unworthy. I wished to point out that we have a LONG history that occurred before becoming an "official" country, and it is worthy of being acknowledged.

If you only acknowledge your history that happened on or after some piece of paper was signed, then your own history of the Pilgrims and Roanoake should surely be considered of no importance in their influence on your development as a country and culture.

They aren't a world power currently, and they have no real impact in historical times....how can it possibly be considered to add Canada to any Civ game???? I'd go for adding the Eskimos before them honestly...

No real impact...What are you using to read by at night? A light bulb, right? A Canadian invented that.

Do you know anybody who's a diabetic? A Canadian team of researchers came up with the process whereby diabetics get the proper amounts of insulin they need to survive.

What do you use to talk to people besides the 'Net? A telephone--another Canadian invention.

A Canadian invented the heart pacemaker, which came in handy for people who would otherwise have died.

You use a zipper to fasten your pants shut, correct? Thank a Canadian for that.

Watch a basketball game on TV? Both of those are Canadian inventions.

Oh, and the almighty American greenback? Well, it wouldn't have been called the "greenback" if a Canadian hadn't figured out how the process works to make that kind of green ink that's used in paper money.

And the list goes on...just imagine how history could have been different if some of those inventions hadn't been made--in alternate history SF it's called the "butterfly effect"--by removing a seemingly insignificant part of history, the future is changed. Think about that, before you sneer.

As for adding the Eskimos to Civ: I'm not familiar with what the Native people in Alaska call themselves, but in Canada, they're part of our First Nations people, and have had a profound influence on Canadian history for many centuries. I wouldn't object at all if they were included.

 

[Superkrest]

welll...i wont deny that its proximity to a world power has definity helped.lol..but dont be fool americans...you depend on canada as well...you get most your oil and trade from us. a sudden break in realations would hurt canada more then the us..but dont be fooled in thinking you wouldnt notice. and ghafi..its more of a civ then some you have adimitly advocated in the past...but in any terms.

most canadians here will even say that they dont see it really happening...its just a thought. lets all keep it light