Advice Needed on a Prince Game

On point two...

Should I just use the save you have prepared, or should I keep it, look over what you did, try to do it in my own saved game, and compare later on? Or possibly take what you have given me and see how long I go before breaking the save?

Whatever you feel is the right course ;) I'm just showing how I've done it; but I believe first-hand experience is the best way to learn, so I suggest you go on with your own game and if you like some of the things I've done, feel free to try them :) I'll try continue from my save and post the results later :D

a. Masonry seemed like a good idea at the time, but it turns out that it wasn't. Sure, I've got the marble and all, but I don't have any more resources like stone or marble near my cities that could be producing hammers.

As for this, well, it's easily rectified :p I suggest aiming for long-term goals now; obviously, you may want to kill Joao, then aim for whatever victory condition you want and never straying. Look for wonders and techs you need (not want :p) Don't forget to aim for Lib, btw :D

Also, I've noticed there's no religion in your continent O.O Now, if you want a religion, I *think* Berlin should pop a GScientist soon (hm, if you get a GE, well, tough luck :p); you can use him to bulb Philosophy and nab the religion for the happiness

I just believed that on higher difficulty levels it was better to run the AI into the ground and then research and build up while the other AIs die off on the other continent.

Play with the AI characteristics in mind; some, like Gandhi, Mansa or Wang Kon, you may want to steamroll if they're WAY ahead of you and are being selfish ******** while if you're up against warmongers like Monty, well, what I've heard is to develop a decent defense stack that will keep him off you (for the time being :lol:) and/or befriend him (again, for the time being :lol:) while teching away. Maces vs. Infantry = no contest :mischief:

Last point: there's no guarantee the AI on the other continent will die off, for all we know, we have a bunch of peacebuilders who are willing to manage their own empires and are already ahead of you :lol:

For a guide to the Specialist Economy:http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/specialist_economy.php

P.S If you get the 'mids, don't forget to switch to rep ;)

EDIT: Actually, forget all I've said about Philosophy; just checked with Bug 4.4 and apparently, the GS won't let us bulb it unless we get CoL and Maths... Still, it *is* an option if you want to go that route, just that I recommend using the 2nd one :)
 
I will keep it in mind, Marcvs! I'll play some more of the game tonight, see if I can get anywhere.
 
If you still have the initial (4000 bc) save, I'd recommend posting it or at least keeping it around for yourself. There were a lot of easily correctable mistakes made in the opening 100-150 or so turns that have slowed you down a lot. While you can get away with them on this level, starting stronger will make beating Prince fairly straightforward, if not trivial on a map with a strong start. I think it would be helpful for you to see how other players might go through like 1000 BC or so differently, and see just how much of a difference it can make. There's a lot of really important decisions to make early game: which techs do I absolutely need now to keep my workers busy, which improvements need to get built first, when do I pop out my settlers, when to switch into slavery and when to whip, etc. Working on these things is imo more important at this level than worrying about mid to late game concerns like SEs or tech path to liberalism or whatever.

I'm not suggesting that you abandon your game and start over; actually I think it'd be very helpful if you have the time to play this through, then play it again and try to make better decisions about early game techs and managing your worker turns and see how much you can improve your position, even at just like 1000 BC or so.

One other thing I noticed is that you automated your scout. I wouldn't do this until you've scouted out at least the entire outline of the continent, especially since scouts are quite likely to get killed. Besides obviously finding your surrounding land and possibly city sites and any neighbors, your scout has another important job: opening up trade routes. By automating your scout, your scout will most likely die before you can do so. If you're not sure how this works, basically once you get sailing, you can trade along coastline and rivers. But you have to actually scout that coast or river to utilize them. What this means is once you've scouted your immediate surrounding land, you should probably send your scout to explore the shoreline of your continent. Run your scout along the entire perimeter of the continent and you'll open up trade routes with your fellow continent dwellers, which is essentially free commerce. Obviously roads accomplish the same thing; you can open up trade routes by roading to Joao, but obviously you won't get a full road path to, say, Sury, for quite some time.

Anyway, I had some time so I played from your 2360 BC save for fun. Played up to 750 AD, so maybe don't read it if you don't want to read about that time frame yet, though I haven't checked out anything across the ocean yet, so there probably isn't much you haven't seen yet. Not a deity player or anything, but I've been beating prince for a while now.

Spoiler :

From 2360, we cancel Archery and research The Wheel (I think you did this anyway), then AH. We immediately revolt to slavery. If events are off, you probably want to revolt to slavery as soon as BW is done, unless you're building a worker or settler or something. With events on, you run the risk of the annoying slave rebellion, but you still don't want to wait too long. We set up roads to Hamburg probably much like you did, and settle Munich in the same spot (though we can see the horses now).

I agree that taking out Joao is definitely the move here. You really only have room to expand south, and the land isn't that great. You could get some decent food and production, but you have no rivers so commerce would be a problem. You could run a SE but it seems much easier to just take Joao's juicy flood plains.

Since we have horses, I prefer to HA rush here. I'm perhaps a bit more partial to HA rushes than I should be but I really prefer the mobility. So we go Writing > Alphabet after AH. Actually I think I got mysticism first; some of our cities don't really need libraries now but they do need border pops. Anyway, we get a library up ASAP in Berlin and begin running two scientists. Our chops are limited; we only chop things we need quickly, like libraries. We get our barracks up while we go for Alphabet. We'll save as many chops as possible for granaries/stables/HAs. Note we could get away with going pottery first before writing; the benefit is quicker granaries and a discount on writing, but we'd get our libraries and GS later, and it would take longer to get to alphabet (where we can just trade for pottery). I'd probably go pottery first here if we had something worthwhile to cottage (we do not).

You pretty much need to go alphabet at this level because the AIs simply take too long to get it themselves. We need to trade for archery, pottery, and iron working. Archery we need to build HAs, pottery for granaries, and IW isn't necessary, but it lets us know if and where our opponent has metal for spears. We find that no one even has writing yet, which is sort of a problem because the AI won't trade IW for writing (we need to trade Alphabet), so we just make sure the AI who will give us IW (Cathy) gets writing for us in our trades.

We find Iron west of Munich. We could (should, probably) settle it so Joao won't have any metal, but I'm lazy and just keep going with my 3 cities. Joao probably won't settle it in time, and if he does, it's right next to our borders and easy to pillage immediately.

We go HBR after Alphabet obviously, with everyone building research (we've finished our barracks/granaries by now). Our GS will bulb math when he's done for the increased yield from chops and discount on currency; our workers start but do not finish their chops (left at 1 turn) until we can get Math. Our GS pops about the same time we finish HBR, and we put our chops through for quick stables, then switch to HAs. We'll need currency and CoL next to support our soon to be much larger empire.

We 2 pop whip to get HAs out quickly. If you don't use whipping much, basically the idea is that 1 pop gives 90 hammers on marathon, and HAs cost 100 hammers, so you change your citizens so that you get 9 or fewer hammers right as you start a new HA, then whip for 2 pop next turn. With the granary, you should almost immediately grow back to 3 pop (or 4 in your capital), and you'll also have most of a 2nd HA done. Doing this, we get a reasonable sized HA army out quickly.

Joao has just settled the iron and is building a road on the iron. Too late for him unfortunately. We declare on him and use an old chariot to capture the worker and pillage the road. Meanwhile our HAs go about taking his other cities. He's built walls in some of his cities, which is annoying, but doesn't matter really without spears.

By 850 BC, he only has his 'iron' city left:

850bc.jpg


I'm lazy, so I'm just going to sit there until it hits pop 2 so I don't raze it. Meanwhile, the immediate goal is to get to Currency ASAP, and work on improving Joao's rather under-developed land (though he left us plenty of forest). This is somewhat annoying since we have practically no commerce from our original cities, so we switch to research to get to currency quickly, where we'll get bonus commerce for another trade route, and can build wealth, which is stronger than research. Not like we need more HAs anyway.

In 780 BC, his iron city finally grows to 2 so we can take it.

780bc.jpg


If we had a stronger commerce base, we could easily take out Cathy too, but our economy is pretty weak now. We also have a lot of land up north to spawn bust; likely will need 4-5 units to do so. We probably could still do it but it's not really necessary; we already have enough cities and available sites to easily outpace the AI.

We have two (somewhat related) major concerns as we recover our economy: Still no religion on this continent, and we currently have no way of increasing our happiness cap. The immediate solution is to settle the silver to the north and the gems to the south ASAP. If we're lucky, we'll found confucianism as we are going CoL next. In the mean time, clearing all the forests around Joao's cities helps us quickly get up necessary infrastructure there. Lisbon is cottaged heavily and will be our bureaucracy capital/oxford site; Berlin will be our GP farm.

Confucianism is founded in a far away land 3 turns before we get to CoL, so we have to go to plan B: bulbing Philosophy. We go Aesthetics > Literature next and will go for TGLibrary and National Epic in Berlin. In the meantime, we run wealth in every city that doesn't have anything meaningful to build anymore and keep our science slider as high as we can.

Sury and Cathy are teching terribly slow and completely unreliable as tech trade partners; we consider ourselves lucky when we can finally get even poly/meditation from them. The good news is that most likely the tech rate on the other continent isn't particularly fast either; since they've now founded 4 religions, and likely will get Christianity too, they're probably not the most peaceful ever, although it probably won't matter even if they are; we should be able to outpace the AI on this level with this many cities.

We backfill the dye/fish to the southeast and the pig/corn to the north. I don't see the need to settle the ice/crab or even the sheep by Berlin. Plains/Sheep is a weak tile.

Anyway, we get TGLib in Berlin and soon after bulb Philosophy. Our continent finally has a religion! Without any other possible religions, it'll auto-spread to everyone pretty much. A shrine would be pretty profitable here, but isn't necessary. I'd probably go Angkor Wat and get it if we had stone; it's probably not a bad idea to do it anyway, but I choose to just run 1 priest in Berlin and hope we get lucky. At least that way we know we won't get deluged with unnecessary extra prophets.

We go Music next for the GA (usually very easy to win on Prince) so we can get a golden age and switch civics. We'll wait until we can get CS during out golden age before we pop it, then switch into Organized Religion/Hereditary Rule (we went Monarchy after Music) and Taoism immediately, then try not to forget to switch into Bureaucracy before the golden age ends, and build a palace in Lisbon.

Backstabbing Cathy declares on us at some point (we beg for peace when she first starts plotting, but she declares on us after it ends) but her stack is really unimpressive. She even bribes Sury in on us, but whatever, he's too far away to matter. We could take Cathy out pretty easily now, but I'd rather build the tech lead and take whatever wonders I feel necessary. Anyway, once Taoism spreads out more we'll all be pretty buddy-buddy with each other.

It's pretty straightforward from here: next GS goes academy in Lisbon, next bulbs education. I stopped around here; any number of options is open here for victory. We could get curiaseers pretty soon if we wanted, or we could continue teching and get cavalry, or we could just play peaceful. In any case, we can take our continent if we want, and barring something super crazy weird going on in the other continent, we'll be too big and advanced for a likely divided continent to contend with.

725AD.jpg


Here we are in 725 AD... building a bunch of colosseums because we got the sports league event, so we built Statue of Zeus and will take a silly golden age (Cathy traded us Ivory). We'll probably throw workshops on the grassland to the east and run state property eventually. Cathy looks like she's going to be worthless as a tech partner, but at least Sury should get us a tech here and there. Anyway, the game is pretty much won here, though I'll probably play it out at some point.
 
Ah, thank you comet, I will have screenshots and the 4000BC save ready by tonight. :)
 
Stopped playing at 1160 AD since my computer can't handle the map and is currently lagging :crazyeye:

Anyway:

Spoiler :
Domination is now a very interesting possibility; got the continent occupied with Sury capitulating and Cathy peace-vassaling, got lib and took astronomy (+40-50 gpt in trade :eek:.) Next step is to amass a fleet of galleons and overload it with cuirs/rifles/cannon/cav/whatever. Also, earlier on, I picked up Christianity (was beaten to Philo, but ah well :lol:) and is now the AP religion (built it solely for denial purposes.) Of course, worker management is one of my weakest spots, as such, the save has 13 workers to 20 cities :lol: But still, I consider this a winning spot :D


Anyways, good luck with your game! :king:
 

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Stopped playing at 1160 AD since my computer can't handle the map and is currently lagging :crazyeye:

Anyway:

Spoiler :
Domination is now a very interesting possibility; got the continent occupied with Sury capitulating and Cathy peace-vassaling, got lib and took astronomy (+40-50 gpt in trade :eek:.) Next step is to amass a fleet of galleons and overload it with cuirs/rifles/cannon/cav/whatever. Also, earlier on, I picked up Christianity (was beaten to Philo, but ah well :lol:) and is now the AP religion (built it solely for denial purposes.) Of course, worker management is one of my weakest spots, as such, the save has 13 workers to 20 cities :lol: But still, I consider this a winning spot :D


Anyways, good luck with your game! :king:

Alright, I'll play around with this save first before doing anything else. :)
 
Hmmm... working on the save still, trying to decide whether to post screenshots from the one I have, or the one that has been given to me.
 
If you still have the initial (4000 bc) save, I'd recommend posting it or at least keeping it around for yourself. There were a lot of easily correctable mistakes made in the opening 100-150 or so turns that have slowed you down a lot. While you can get away with them on this level, starting stronger will make beating Prince fairly straightforward, if not trivial on a map with a strong start. I think it would be helpful for you to see how other players might go through like 1000 BC or so differently, and see just how much of a difference it can make. There's a lot of really important decisions to make early game: which techs do I absolutely need now to keep my workers busy, which improvements need to get built first, when do I pop out my settlers, when to switch into slavery and when to whip, etc. Working on these things is imo more important at this level than worrying about mid to late game concerns like SEs or tech path to liberalism or whatever.

I think thats a very good advice. What I used to do in the early days was replay the same start over and over for the first ~100 turns and see what I can do with it, what wonders are within my reach, how much i can expand etc. I think i learned alot by doing this way, but getting other people's input into the matter would make it even better.
 
I think thats a very good advice. What I used to do in the early days was replay the same start over and over for the first ~100 turns and see what I can do with it, what wonders are within my reach, how much i can expand etc. I think i learned alot by doing this way, but getting other people's input into the matter would make it even better.

Got it. This is the reserve post for the initial save.
 

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