Advice on starting position

[HiroProtagonist]

Playing Cat on noble, continents. The AI is advising me to build on the FP. I'm thinking that the red dot might be a better spot. Given the number of FP tiles I'm leaning towards making this a cottage city.

AI spot:
pros - keeps me within range of cattle, keeps me near forrest for chop
cons - wastes a FP

Red dot:
pros - saves FP
cons - wastes one forest

Any recomendations. I'm a beginner and still not sure which choices will serve me best in the long run.

 

[Zekrazey1]

The red spot would end up with the same number of floodplains (6) as the current spot. Given that it would remove a forest, delay you by a turn and includes two desert, I don't think it's a better choice. If your aim is to maximise floodplains, building one down-right would give you an additional 1 to 3 floodplains (depending on whether that's desert to the right). I'd first move the scout right then up-right to check the terrain there.

 

[Artanis]

I'd either settle where you are or move one tile to the southeast. Going to the southeast will leave 8 or 9 Flood Plains in the city's "fat cross" while still keeping the Cows and two Wines, which means tons of growth and commerce (albeit very little production). Settling where you are is also a good idea, since that'll still leave 6 Flood Plains in the "fat cross", keep the third Wines, and probably goodies that you can't see yet in the fog.

I would NOT go to the Red Dot. Going to the Red Dot loses you Cows, loses you the forest, loses you two workable forests to the north, AND puts 2 desert tiles in your "fat cross", without even increasing the number of Flood Plains the city can work...all in exchange for gaining a couple hills. Worst of all, it'll take both moves to get the Settler into the forest, so you'll lose a precious turn before founding the city. All in all, it just doesn't seem even close to worth it.

 

[BeefontheBone]

1SE is probably better, but it will have no health at all since it loses all the forests. Still, the cows and the diff should make that manageable, and it lets you get another good city in to the west.

 

[naf4ever]

I highly ADVISE you plop your starting city down where the settler begins. Why? Because the circle that the AI recommends has one advantage you and I never will: foresight.

Through numerous games I have noticed the AI advising me to plop down in odd spots and then i later realize why. Because the spot they are advising me to settle (which appears not that great) has access to resources I cant yet see but are there such as horses, or bronze, or iron, or coal, etc.

I have paid close attention to where the AI wants me to settle. Yes sometimes I ignore it when they advise a spot that overlaps too many squares with another city. But if it is out of the way and there are 2 food resources, yet they advise a spot that allows me only 1, many times i will go along with them and not regret it because later iron or coal or aluminum or something becomes available on squares that wouldnt have had i gone with my placement. I even have suspicioun the AI takes into account random squares that have a chance to later generate a completely random resource as sometimes happens. eg: "so and so city has discovered a new source of ...." etc.

In 99% of cases trust the AI on your starting spot, it takes into account hidden resources.

 

[Zekrazey1]

It has one major disadvantage too, it doesn't know what kind of city you want . I'll only place my cities where the AI suggests if I agree with it's assessment of that location or if I don't really care where that city goes (maybe I want a cottage city and wherever I put it would be sufficient to support cottages anyway, so may as well go along with AI in case something else nice pops up later).

As for wasting or not utilizing forests, resources and spaces for other cities (by moving your starting city), I would suggest that we can't possibly know whether they're wasted or under-utilized (except for the one forest that would be removed by a city placed on that red dot) until the surrounding terrain has been scouted. We can only speculate about the long-term optimal city arrangement at this point .

 

[ZiP!]

Through numerous games I have noticed the AI advising me to plop down in odd spots and then i later realize why. Because the spot they are advising me to settle (which appears not that great) has access to resources I cant yet see but are there such as horses, or bronze, or iron, or coal, etc.

[/OT mode On]
I agree with you, but I think the AI still tends too much to build 1 square away from coasts...
[/OT mode Off]

 

[DaviddesJ]

In 99% of cases trust the AI on your starting spot, it takes into account hidden resources.

Nope. It doesn't.

 

[gmanne]

Red dot is bad, you will miss those cows when breakfast time comes around. Seriously, play a few games using the AI's recomendations. You can then decide for yourself if you will be a Follower of the Blue Circle in future games.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like the red dot has been soundly defeated. Gmanne's sugestion about going with the AI's choice is probably sound advice until I learn a little more about what really makes a good city site.

 

[DraconisRex]

Playing Cat on noble, continents. The AI is advising me to build on the FP. I'm thinking that the red dot might be a better spot. Given the number of FP tiles I'm leaning towards making this a cottage city.

AI spot:
pros - keeps me within range of cattle, keeps me near forrest for chop
cons - wastes a FP

Red dot:
pros - saves FP
cons - wastes one forest

Any recomendations. I'm a beginner and still not sure which choices will serve me best in the long run.

I would kill for a start like that. Though, with all the floodplains and lack of obvious hills, I would actually explore around, re-load the initial set-up and then make a choice.

 

[DraconisRex]

[/OT mode On]
I agree with you, but I think the AI still tends too much to build 1 square away from coasts...
[/OT mode Off]

I agree. Never mind losing a place to build ships, the forgoing of the harbor improvement and lighthouse improvement is a killer as you still end up with ocean tiles you can't work and the added drag of losing a lot of valuable commerce, too.

 

[Reignking]

I'd have to agree that 99% of the time, Civ gives you an excellent starting location. I wouldn't even waste turns looking to see where other resources are.

OTOH, when the game recommends a spot, I usually ignore it. Why? It never takes into account city overlap. Personally, I found cities that have no overlap whatsoever, for 2 reasons. The first is obvious -- more land to work long-term. The second is so that I can expand my borders, especially early.

 

[5cats]

Why? Because the circle that the AI recommends has one advantage you and I never will: foresight.

Many are the times I've moved my settler TO a non-blue circle spot, then next turn it IS a blue circle spot. I can't for the life of me figure out why it was a crappy spot last turn, but this turn it's great...

 

[MrCynical]

Many are the times I've moved my settler TO a non-blue circle spot, then next turn it IS a blue circle spot. I can't for the life of me figure out why it was a crappy spot last turn, but this turn it's great...

The computer never places blue circles in the tiles immediately adjacent to your settler, so there may well be a better option one square away, but it won't tell you unless your settler moves away or onto it.