After Moore, the world according to Bush !!

[thestonesfan]

I wasn't certain about when they admitted the new members. My numbers were from before that, obviously. I can't imagine it's a great deal higher, since the new members were ex-soviet states.

 

[andrewgprv]

I wasn't certain about when they admitted the new members. My numbers were from before that, obviously. I can't imagine it's a great deal higher, since the new members were ex-soviet states.

The point is, before you were saying it will take decades for them to catch up, but wait they're already caught up?! I'm sure that Britains around the turn of the 20th century thought they'd never see their empire or power fall within their life time.

 

[thestonesfan]

The point is, before you were saying it will take decades for them to catch up, but wait they're already caught up?! I'm sure that Britains around the turn of the 20th century thought they'd never see their empire or power fall within their life time.

It would have taken decades for the 15 previous members to catch up.

Gross EU GDP is really a moot figure, anyway. It should still be judged on the basis of each nation.

 

[cgannon64]

It's a bit the remaining of the wide support Bush has benefited after the Sept. 11th atrocities : "we should back the president, he knows what he does."

My thinking is more like: "current hatred for Bush is mostly reactionary; it should be rigourously investigated before being held".

 

[cgannon64]

Hey, is that airplane crashed into a house a completely tasteless September 11th reference, or does it have some significant meaning?

 

[Immortal]

tasteless cgannon, like if there were a picture of a bunch of dead old people for a documentary about the french heatwave.

The Conservative establishment is much more wider and influent.

Not in the media industry it isn't.

 

[10Seven]

When criticism is directed toward the USA, a lot of Americans get excited - particularly, angry.

The typical anger response is really denial - this has a further reaction of increasing criticism, as those criticising atry harder to feel their message is heard.

It goes around and around.

Virtually every criticism pointed at the USA is probably true

But only to an extent, and not toward every single US citizen.

Despite the reactionary behaviour of many/some Americans, just because 'the USA' is criticised, doesn't mean it's the devil incarnate.

We all need to relax...

 

[cgannon64]

Tell that to those who are frothing at the mouth about how much Bush sucks.

 

[newfangle]

@10seven

Actually, a lot of people that get annoyed with endless criticisms of America aren't American. They're just annoyed. Why? Because leftists tend to be louder, more obnxious, and more arrogant.

 

[10Seven]

Tell that to those who are frothing at the mouth about how much Bush rocks.



Extremists are always loud and arrogant - whatever direction they attack from.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Hey, is that airplane crashed into a house a completely tasteless September 11th reference, or does it have some significant meaning?

It's from the movie "The World According to Garp". The artwork on the cover of the Garp movie is identical to this one, only Robin Williams is the person.

It was a weird, semi-funny movie.

...Garp, a sweet-natured writer whose life is an outrageous minefield of violence, adultery, father-hood, rampant feminism, bizarre coincidence....Glenn Close (her film debut) as Garp's formidable mother and John Lithgow as a transexual ex-NFL pass receiver...

 

[cgannon64]

Hmm. So, apparently the only connection between that movie and Bush is that there was a plane crash into a building.

Its a completely tasteless September 11th reference, then.

 

[newfangle]

Tell that to those who are frothing at the mouth about how much Bush rocks.

My point being that there aren't actually very many people around here that say "Bush rocks."

Just accept it. Its possibility to disagree with someone without resorting to childish name calling. You don't like Bush? All the power to you! But your annoying methods of annoyance won't change a damn thing.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Hey, is that airplane crashed into a house a completely tasteless September 11th reference, or does it have some significant meaning?

I'm sorry, it's the only poster I've found with the title in English. Actually, I just realized it has no connection with the movie, it's simply a caricature photoshop thing.


Here is the genuine movie poster. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem it will go out in other movie theatres than French ones :

I've seen that movie yesterday. It's quite interesting actually. There are interviews from guys like Richard Perle, George Tenet, Paul O'Neill, Hans Blix, Frank Carlucci (the manager of Carlyle), Paul Wolfowitz, the writer Norman Mailer, David Kay and Joe Wilson who have worked in Bush administration and decided to leave their office, Stanley Hoffman, David Frum (Bush's speechwriter who have invented the "axis of evil" formula), and finally Michael Ledeen, who has worked under Reagan and Bush Sr.

As you can see, people were coming from all sides. It's not only those who are "anti-Bush" that had a voice in that movie. This being said, I'm suspicious about several informations in the movie. For instance, they say that Ben Laden's brothers were making business with Carlyle the day of the September 11th. They even say that the plane to send them back to Saudi Arabia has been the only one able to fly that day . Another very suspicious information is about Prescott Bush, W's grandpa. According to that film, he had made business with the Nazis and his company has been trialed because of it.

That sounded a bit too much for me. I need to check if those things were right. However, overall, I think it's quite interesting to know what all those guys think about it. It deserves to be seen, even if, of course, those who needs the more to see that movie, US voters, will never have access to it.

 

[test_specimen]

It is always funny that USAmericans find so much to criticise about Clinton and his private life, while they fervently defend Bush for almost everything he does. Especially when it comes to the non-war things. Admittedly Clinton was president in a very prosperous time, while Bush was president during a recession or at least stagnation. Now whenever one mentions this, there is this answer: first, Clinton profited from a favourable economic climate, he himself could not have done anything to achieve this by himself, it was pure market dynamics. However he still did enough wrong, to hand over a declining economy to Bush. And Bush, off course is also not responsible for the economic situation that existed during his term, it was pure market dynamics, but now that the economy is recovering, it is off course due to his clever politics.

Do you see what's strange about the line of argument? Either the economy can be influenced, then off course it was Clinton's politics that caused the 90's to be a good decade, and Bush caused both the recession and the recovery, or it the economy can't be influenced, then neither Clinton nor Bush can be held responsible for how everything evolved.

About the other things that happened, if you compare the two presidents: Clinton wanted to implement a better healthcare system and a deficit reduction, as well as some other things, that were sort of on his agenda (but the healthcare changes were off course hindered by Newt Gingrich) to make his presidency unique and positive for the US. Does anyone remember what Bush had on his agenda, except tax cuts for the upper 5-10% of income? I don't live in the US, so maybe I missed something, but afaik there was nothing else he wanted to do during his time as a president. The patriot act was a bonus, which he could pull through thanks to the fear the terror attacks caused.

Only yesterday I've seen Moore on Conan O'Brian's show, and even though he is very polemic and blunt most of the time, he said some clever things that make me respect him: first, the movie is only his opinion. He never said that he presents facts in an unbiased way. He felt there was something wrong, and so he stood up to point it out for others. Second he said that respect for soldier's lives means, that you only send them to war if it's necessary and essential to protect US citizens at home.

 

[test_specimen]

Another very suspicious information is about Prescott Bush, W's grandpa. According to that film, he had made business with the Nazis and his company has been trialed because of it.

That sounded a bit too much for me. I need to check if those things were right. However, overall, I think it's quite interesting to know what all those guys think about it. It deserves to be seen, even if, of course, those who needs the more to see that movie, US voters, will never have access to it.

Here you go:
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

but there is surely more information on this, since there was an official investigation.

 

[10Seven]

My point being that there aren't actually very many people around here that say "Bush rocks."
Just accept it. Its possibility to disagree with someone without resorting to childish name calling. You don't like Bush? All the power to you! But your annoying methods of annoyance won't change a damn thing.

Do you actually read anything I say?

I think not.

From your statements, "But your annoying methods of annoyance won't change a damn thing" I'm thinking you must have read something I never actually said.

so if you're wanting to at me, perhaps you'd do the courtesy of reading what I've said in this thread, and in the forum - like my thread on, 'Why Bush is a Great leader, but you shouldn't vote for him'.

Or don't bother, because a dose of reality might be just a little bit much.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Everything's cool 10seven And Newfangle too

There's no reason to get nervous. After all, I consider it's great to have you all as friends. And believe it or not, but I sincerly consider all of you as my friends. You all rock !

 

[10Seven]

There's no reason to get nervous.

Ha that's funny, because I get excited when my assumptions are challenged

 

[newfangle]

@10seven: You are continually asserting that these magical fairy people exists that vehemently defend Bush and claim that he "rocks." I have yet to encounter these people, let alone on these forums.