AG12 - Space Race (Sid)

On Germany, look at the situation and do what you feel is correct, Yom. If there are too many units, then don't attack. I think that decision has to be made by spending time with the game and looking over our forces and theirs and coming to a decision. Note that my strong suspicion is that armies will not be immune to attacks due to the fact the Aztecs own the entire island. So the armies are only useful if they survive to heal.

To my mind the real reason not to quit this game is that there is still quite a bit to learned. Could we get to Mil Trad before a space ship launch? That depends on how fast the SID AI can research - something I really don't know much about. Stopping now would leave us equally in the dark in some future SID game as we are now.
 
I'll be away on a trip starting tomorrow, 7/16, and won't be back until 7/23 or later. Since I'm not exactly sure how long the trip will last, I'll let you know when I'm back. I won't have computer access most of the time, so I won't be able to take part in a lot of the discussion.

I won't have time to play this tonight (I don't want to play sloppy turns in such a difficult situation) so please skip me. I expect to hear of our glorious victory on my return :D.
 
Oh so I get to fight 200 German units. Go me! I got it

If anyone has a strong opinion on that option, speak now. Otherwise, I will spend time looking over our and their forces and try to come to a decision on whether fight them (and choose wrong losing half our cities?)

[Edit: I don't think I will play this tonight. I am too tired.

I have been thinking on the German attack idea, and I feel that it is not a good idea. Armies would be nice, but the war itself would cost us too much. Germany has Muskets which are hard to take out with knights (we lose more than they and our best defense is pikes, which aren't sufficient vs large numbers of attack 4 units. I think I will instead work on getting us to the knights we need for an assault.
 
Houston, we have a problem:

The GA just ended and our finances are not good. I did not expect it to go down as much as it did (see picture below).

We are running at -63 gpt with 0 science. This is due to 3 things:
Outstanding gpt deals with the AI.
140 gpt unit costs
40% Lux rate to compensate for War Weariness.

I see two options:
1: Disband 30 units. This can be mostly the immortals we kept (I was worried something like this would happen - Well at least I can disband them in towns and get some benefit.) and trebuchets (or even regular horses).
2: Make peace with the Aztecs prematurely and ruin all ability for alliances. I think this would be a very bad idea.


Note that we have a lot of regular horses. I may disband those (why no barracks first??) first and then immortals. We aren't going to be upgrading a whole lot of horses given our cash problems.

Our troops are:
3 workers (I built some in the core and merged some in the outback) so we are still at 3 - They are going to fix up towns running positive food at size 12 (very slowly with only 3)).
1 Warrior (going to be axed for sure)
27 Horsemen - The 7 regulars I think should go.
18 Pike - keep - I want pikes to defend when we land.
11 knight - keep - These got built in the GA or were upgraded.
21 Galley - keep - need more than this.
26 Immortals - will need to cull. Should I disband all of them? - otherwise as I build new units I will go negative again.
8 Trebuchet - I will probably disband these.

[Edit: For trades we can cancel our aliance vs Aztec with germany and get 10 gpt back. We also will get 57 gpt back from the vikings in 8 turns.

[Edit2: Our alliance with the Ottomans vs the Aztec will last 11 more turns.


---------------------------------------------
Here is the turn log for reference:
Preturn: Hmm. No workers at all for our main area? Don't we have excess irrigated lands that need to be mined instead? I need to fix that.
MM a bit - I switch towns building knights to barracks wherever I see towns that need them.

IBT: lol - the jungle square my workers were clearing gets global-warmed away before completion. I send the workers back into the main part of our empire (3 and a slave) [Edit: I did merge these outback workers already]

1160 AD: MM some more - I really need to change one square near arbella to a mine to build knights a turn earlier there. I am building a worker or two in some lesser towns.

IBT: Babylon Makes peace and then declares war on the Aztecs in the same turn. ROP is cancelled by them.

1170 AD: Our Immortals land. I disband a few to get my gold up a bit.

IBT:
Duriush Kabir builds a courthose and starts a Galley.

1180 AD: I raise lux really far because our GA is ending and the gold is not calculated correctly so I can't balance the cities. We probably still will get riots.

IBT: Urgh! Our cash plummets. No riots though.

1190 AD: Well I better stop here for a consult. We can either disband 30 units or so or make peace with Aztecs and permanantly besmirch our alliance rep.
 
My thought on this is to disband the warrior, the 7 regular horse, the trebuchets and all but about 6 Immortals for a total of 36 units.

I think we should also cancel the deal with Germany.

[Edit: I will definitely be waiting until tomorrow to continue to give ppl time to give input]
 
I agree. We have to do something and I don't like us breaking deals. Obviously this is the final insult of the Sid level. We are not even able to build up the army needed to take out the capital of the Aztecs. Otoh we are close to the end of the game anyway. One way or the other.
 
I don't think we will use the slower units on the assault anyway since we will be one away from the city.

The lack of money to upgrade horses seems the real heartbreak and the fact that we could have had 5-8 more knights if we had known and disbanded units immediately.

I don't see any other alternative to disbanding. I think I will proceed with that. :cry:
 
Yes it is painfull. I guess I should have just disbanded the immortals immediately. It was very unlikely the other AIs would seriously damage the Aztecs quickly enough to justify keeping tem at the ready.
 
Preturn: Hmm. No workers at all for our main area? Don't we have excess irrigated lands that need to be mined instead? I need to fix that.
MM a bit - I switch towns building knights to barracks wherever I see towns that need them.

IBT: lol - the jungle square my workers were clearing gets global-warmed away before completion. I send the workers back into the main part of our empire (3 and a slave).

1160 AD: MM some more - I really need to change one square near arbella to a mine to build knights a turn earlier there. I am building a worker or two in some lesser towns.

IBT: Babylon Makes peace and then declares war on the Aztecs in the same turn. ROP is cancelled.

1170 AD: Immortals land. I disband a few to get my gold up a bit.

IBT:
Duriush Kabir builds a courthose and starts a Galley.

1180 AD: I raise lux really far because our GA is ending and the gold is not calculated correctly so I can't balance the cities. We probably still will get riots.

IBT: Urgh! Our cash plummets.

1190 AD: Well I better stop here for a consult. We can either disband 30 units or so or make peace with Aztecs and permanantly besmirch our rep.

---------------
Units disbanded and the deal with germany (MA) was cancelled. I put us positive cash for fear of spending gpt on units and then have to disband them later anyway.
Ottomans tell us the Lux deal (2 for 1) is to be cancelled, but will then make the same deal again. Odd.

I am glad I didn't fight the Germans. They have way too many muskets to do anything.

Babylon builds hoover which is actually good. The ottomans don't have it.

1200 AD: I continue to build knights

1210 AD: I resign the ROP with germany. The hope is that then they either kill their units or Babylon and Ottoman cities faster. I would much rather weak Germany be on our continent than those two super-powers.

1220 AD:

1230 AD:

IBT: One thing very interesting - The Germans seemed to react to a tank next to their city by pouring units into it - pretty much every defensive unit within reach (20 odd muskets). If the same things happens with the Aztecs at distance 2 when we land the knight then I think this game will be lost no matter how many units appear to be in the city by investigation. If the AI doesn't react at distance two, then our knights might be much, much more successful than the immortals. The final question is how about 3 squares away with cavalry? If that doesn't provoke the defense reaction and knights do, then Cavalry would be the superior attackers.

1250 AD: Finis

Notes:
Adjust Persepolis next turn. It can make knights in 3 turns at -1 food which is worth it while the extra food lasts.

We have 19 Horse, 18 Pike, 19 knight, and 25 Galleys, 7 immortals, and 4 workers. We are currently at -4 gold (be careful of a demand for all our money causing something to disband)
Six of the pike (+1 defender) are in the city to go with the expedition
In 2 turns we get 57 gpt back from a deal with the Vikings.
In 5 turns we can make peace with the Aztecs and lower our lux rate. We will have to make peace to upgrade the horse.
I am hoping this means we can soon start upgrading again, though more units will lessen our cash (Do we have enough Galleys? If so we should stop making them)

Aggie,
A comment on our statement "one way or the other this will be over soon." May not be true. We very well may have to attack the Ottoman capitol and take it and steal a number of techs (which means banks etc) to win. If we lose it will be fast...If we win, there may be still many turns left in the game.

Does anyone know the answer to the IBT just above? Under what conditions does an AI defend his city?

Aside:
Its kind of amazing that one can play so many SG's and not know the answers to fundementally important questions as that one. Given that it hasn't been discussed to my knowledge, I am guessing that the answer is that the AI will react at distance 3 so there is no hope, but that is only a guess. If it is true, then one way to take a city I have never seen mentioned (mostly because it is also very silly). Land your Conquistadors 6 away and cover by defensive units. Then have them attack the unsuspecting capitol. While conquistadors are incredibly inefficient assault units, if the difference is 5 defenders vs 25, it would actually make sense. The reason I suspect the conquistador trick will work is because conquistador armies can catch workers so the reaction distance is not done by calculating to see if anyone can attack it. I think conquistadors can do the same.
 
I don't know the answer either. My guess would be if we land closer to another city than the capitol but still within reach of the capitol they might fortify the most threatened city and leave the capitol. I'm not positive but I think I've seen this.
 
I also don't have an answer on Greebley's question.

Babylon is in the Modern age. And the Ottomans won't be having a cultural win, because the Vikings have more than 50% of their culture (as do the Babylonians). So that is good news.

I think that we need to make get those two luxuries from the Babylonians. I'm almost sure that we can get our lux tax down 20%. This means that we will actually profit from it.

ROSTER:
Greebley (holiday from July 24th to August 9th)
betazed-----skipped until further notice
Mark1031---up
Aggie-------on deck
Yom--------away from July 16th to July 23rd
 
The prices were prohibitive when I last checked, but that was during the GA. I wouldn't buy them if we are going to make peace in 5 turns. Only if we decide to continue the war would I buy them, unless they are cheaper now (it was 33 gpt and didn't allow us to lower lux during the GA)

I think making peace in 5 turns so we don't need the Lux is better, but thats just a guess.
 
got it...............
 
I'm not back, but I got computer access (for now at least, I doubt I'll have more opportunities). The answer to your question AFAIK is that the AI does NOT react to units 3 tiles away from this city. I know this was true in Vanilla and PTW. Unfortunately, it may not hold true in Conquests (though I believe it does). It certainly makes cavalry better, but can we get to cavalry quickly enough?
 
No, we probably cannot get to Mil Trad in time.

Also, to land 3 away would mean landing on a hill which would be worse in terms of defense - I am worried about the counter attack.

I have been thinking about this game, and I think we need more than 6 pike. I would like something like 20 pike. Even that may not be enough for the counter attack. We do not want to be using our knights to defend with. That was one problem we had with the previous attack - We lost units before we even started.

I would put some towns on pike to take along

Muskets would be even better if we could get to them. They are expensive, but could survive multiple attacks on average.
 
Sorry guys my game computer crashed (corrupt windows file) and I don't have time right now to deal with it. I need a skip.
 
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