AI cheats with wonders?

[Amenhotep IV]

I was playing a Deity game, and was 2 techs ahead from Isabella (the AI leader) from one side -- I had Biology and Corporation. She had Rifling, MilTrad and Steel. Well at least it those were visible through the trade screen. And then all of a sudden I see "Isabella completes Apollo Program" !!!
Well I can agree she was researching faster (although had only 1 city more) so she could get to Rocketry first, but building Apolo Program ?! 1600 hammers, no rush method !!! How come?
And she must have completed it within few turns after researching Rocketry. Or could she have a city with 200 hammers?

Then she beat me with only 4 turns to build the Space Elavator and the game was over for me.

 

[player1 fanatic]

She probably had rocketry from beggining.
Steel-Artillery-Rocketry

You don't see the techs you can't research.

 

[Amenhotep IV]

Yeah, I know I didn't see it. But what surprised me is how she managed to build the Apollo Program that fast? It took me almost 30 turns to do the same in my biggest city.

 

[Ranges]

A great engineer would cut the time to do this in half, at least..

Would be nice, if the AI used a great engineer for that purpose..

 

[AmnesiaA]

The AI uses great engineers to rush wonders, especially the apollo wonder, if they are bent on winning the game that way. Isabella in this game likely rushed to rocketry and then used two engineers to make the apollo program in a single turn. I've seen it done before, and it obviously isn't cheating. (The AI likes to keep great people around until they find a use for them.)

 

[salty]

I played one game where Napolean? was researching Liberalism and building SAM infantry at the same time (according to the spy). I checked and it looks like Rocketry doesn't have any dependencies but later I caught him researching Physics which is clearly required for both Flight and Artillery.

It's either cheating or the game is buggy as hell.

 

[Gufnork]

The Apollo Project is not a wonder, it's a Project. As such, it cannot be rushed. 30 turns sounds a lot for it, can I assume you didn't have any Aluminium? Anyway, there's no way of knowing when she got Rocketry, so she might have been at it longer than you think. But she does cheat quite a bit when it comes to production on Deity, it's a whole lot cheaper for her.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The Apollo Project is not a wonder, it's a Project. As such, it cannot be rushed. 30 turns sounds a lot for it, can I assume you didn't have any Aluminium? Anyway, there's no way of knowing when she got Rocketry, so she might have been at it longer than you think. But she does cheat quite a bit when it comes to production on Deity, it's a whole lot cheaper for her.

Actually I believe they only cheat on 'non-wonder/project' production

 

[weimingshi]

On deity, its not that surprising that an AI researched a tech 30 turns before you. In my deity game, the AI got mordern armor before I can build tank. My suggestion for deity level is turn off space victory if you don't plan to cheat. Unless you are playing on some specific map or cheats during play, you will never beat AI to a space race on deity. Not on large maps with lots of civs anyways.

 

[sandman_civ]

Yeah, I know I didn't see it. But what surprised me is how she managed to build the Apollo Program that fast? It took me almost 30 turns to do the same in my biggest city.

30 turns for 1600 hammers?? Your "biggest" city in deity should be WAY faster than that by the end game. Is this a typing error man?

BTW the AI in deity, with marble, all the production improvements, and the excessive cheating, can spit out wonders for breakfast.

 

[Drakan]

My suggestion for deity level is turn off space victory if you don't plan to cheat. Unless you are playing on some specific map or cheats during play, you will never beat AI to a space race on deity. Not on large maps with lots of civs anyways.

I beg to differ.

That was also said back in Civ III and today one can easily win a SS victory at Deity in huge (60% water) pangaea maps against 15 random civs. Check my signature: How to beat Deity as a Builder. Even Sid SS victories have been accomplished in Civ III. Just give the Civ Community some time before they develop the strategies & analysis.

It's only a matter of time that civers will come up with neat strategies to beat C4s Deity's SS vic.

 

[weimingshi]

I beg to differ.

That was also said back in Civ III and today one can easily win a SS victory at Deity in huge (60% water) pangaea maps against 15 random civs. Check my signature: How to beat Deity as a Builder. Even Sid SS victories have been accomplished in Civ III. Just give the Civ Community some time before they develop the strategies & analysis.

It's only a matter of time that civers will come up with neat strategies to beat C4s Deity's SS vic.

Who knows about the future. but as of now, on huge map, only under the most favourable condition and a hell lot save/load and then maybe just maybe you can beat it to a space victory. The difference in civ4 against previous civ is the AI's reluctance to trade tech at higher level of difficulty. Aside from mansa musa, late in the game no other civ will trade you tech unless most of civs are 4 or 5 techs above you. They won't even trade you techs that every other civ already know and you got a friendly relation. Only mansa musa willing to trade any tech, But you quickly run out of tech to trade with him, cause he ask for 1.5x the cost and trade with other ai too.

In civ3 you have alot other ways to get tech from AI. steal it with spy, conquer a city etc... none of that is present in civ4.

 

[Amenhotep IV]

The Apollo Project is not a wonder, it's a Project. As such, it cannot be rushed. 30 turns sounds a lot for it, can I assume you didn't have any Aluminium? Anyway, there's no way of knowing when she got Rocketry, so she might have been at it longer than you think. But she does cheat quite a bit when it comes to production on Deity, it's a whole lot cheaper for her.

Indeed. And that's why I'm surprised she builit Apollo that fast. She couldn't have builit it later than in 10 turns after dicovering Rocketry. That's for sure.
I did have Aluminum, but I didn't have enough hills to make hammers or I had in one city, but it didn't have enough grasslands to feed the miners

 

[Smirk]

If your strategy involves saving and loading a game to cheat you aren't even playing the game. You'll learn more by playing it instead of excercising your hard drive.

At any rate, what exactly is the problem? If you cannot beat diety, then play a lower difficulty.

 

[humbe]

At higher difficulties the AI do cheat... So given two equal cities, one who is owned by the AI and one owned by you, expect the AI city to build considerably faster.

 

[Pvblivs]

At higher difficulties the AI do cheat... So given two equal cities, one who is owned by the AI and one owned by you, expect the AI city to build considerably faster.

Of course. But that's not cheating. It is more difficult for you to play against.

The reason for that is quite simple: The AI doesn't get more intelligent on higher difficulties. It just gets more aggressive to make use of its higher advantages. If it would be possible to make an AI that intelligent "noble" would be much more difficult.

 

[DaemonDivinity]

Actually I don't think save-load works. I tried it when I was starting out. Tribal villages, unit-combat results, etc are predecided. I've never gotten a different result after reloading if I followed the exact same sequence.

 

[warpus]

Actually I don't think save-load works. I tried it when I was starting out. Tribal villages, unit-combat results, etc are predecided. I've never gotten a different result after reloading if I followed the exact same sequence.

that's probably because they pick their randomization seeds in advance - this is why the same random numbers come up later throughout the game. i thought this was a brilliant save/load cheat-prevention mechanism in civ3.