AI DoW when friendly?

[SenhorDaGuerra]

ok, so im playing a game as Justinian, inconsiquential, i know.

But anyway, I am friendly with the Khmer all game long, and they are on a distant continent. I only have -4 diplo points against him. (you declared war on our friend, you refused to help us)

1. I am in free religion, so no religion modifiers.
2. Thus we have no civics multipliers (his favorite is organised religion iirc)
3. I have been checking my diplo status with everyone all game long as i need to improve my skills in that department, and he was friendly right up till the turn before he Dowed
4. I am 100% certain it wasnt an AP resolution, because no one else declared war.

So, the situation is this: he sends 5 transports and 4 destroyers to my shores, I dont think twice because he is friendly, so he definately won't declare on me.

Lo and behold next turn he declares on me. This means that all the while we were friendly he was PLANNING a war with me whilst friendly, which I have been assured by members on this board should NEVER happen. I am 100% positive he was friendly with me for at least the last 100turns, particularly after I switched to free religion and got rid of the -8 heathen religion diplo modifier. And I am 100% positive that he was friendly the turn before he DoWed, because I double checked to make sure when I saw his naval stack there.

Can anyone give an explaination as to how this may happen please?

Thanks guys.

 

[Ceritoglu]

He might have attacked you because you're low on the power graph or he might have been planning the attack before you switched to Free Religion. Alternately he might just be really untrustworthy - he's ugly enough.

 

[DanF5771]

The reason: Sury is on a distant continent. He chose to attack you when he was <"Friendly" with you. The AI just takes forever to get an assault task force ready for an invasion. If you have any saves 80 turns before the DoW you might want to check for WHEOOHRN.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah, I concur. He started planning the war before you switched to free religion and before you were friendly.

 

[JujuLautre]

friendly with no religion or civic bonus and -4 from past events? o_O How can you do it? You sure he was friendly ? You need +14 positives diplo modifiers for that, that's enormous without civic or religion modifiers, I'm not even sure it's doable...

Did you have a vassal ?

 

[Deep_Blue]

I think friendly doesn't mean Never being Dowed but means being Dowed is very unlikely to happen. Meaning that there is still slight chance for being Dowed even with friendly relation. However I am not sure about that and we need to take a look at the game code itself to be positive.

 

[JujuLautre]

Friendly means, in our case, that the AI will NEVER take the decision to go to war with you. When I say never, I mean it.
However, several things can make a friendly AI DOW on you:
- Cathy can be bribed to attack even leaders she is friendly with
- the decision to DOW may have been taken before the leader was at friendly (it will not change)
- an AP or even related stuff
- if you have some vassal or allies, the important relation is the mean relation to your team (pleased + friendly = pleased, so a leader friendly with you may DOW on you because he's pleased with your vassal)
I think I did not forget anything

However, I still find hard to believe that you can attain friendly status with -4 modifiers and no civic/religion; doable, but dubious. (+4 trade, +2 long trade, +2 open borders, +1 peace, +4 shared war, +3 random event, +2 you voted for us... Doable, but quite unlikely)

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

thanks for the answers guys. I did have a vassal, and i have no idea what Sury though of him (Zara), so maybe that was it, maybe he didnt get along with Zara maybe so it averaged out to be Pleased or even cautious. I had no idea that status with your vassal affected the status with you. Interesting. I though you only got the negative diplo for "we are worried about our rivals being your vassal".

I will try and get some screenies up tomorrow, or later today when i get home or tomorrow.

 

[MattX]

I feel bad about it but I declare war on them when the tables are turned! Sometimes it's the only war to get back into the game.

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

friendly with no religion or civic bonus and -4 from past events? o_O How can you do it? You sure he was friendly ? You need +14 positives diplo modifiers for that, that's enormous without civic or religion modifiers, I'm not even sure it's doable...

Did you have a vassal ?

Sorry took so long. but here is Friendly sury with -4 and no religion or civic bonus:

and a friendly Isabella from the same game later on:

EDIT: figured it out.

 

[obsolete]

- if you have some vassal or allies, the important relation is the mean relation to your team (pleased + friendly = pleased, so a leader friendly with you may DOW on you because he's pleased with your vassal)
I think I did not forget anything

Actually, in 3.17 I think the mean doesn't count anymore, assuming it ever did.

Even if all your vassals are as pleased too with an AI, and more so that any other Civs, with more than enough excess points, it seems the AI can STIILL DoW on you. When ever Vassals come into the picture, it always throws the FOR SURE diplo items right out of wack. Having vassals, (all at pleased with an AI) furthermore will cause WFYABTA, despite this is not supposed to happen either.

I don't know if this stuff is by game design, or just bugs. I will assume they are bugs because Firaxis has made no attempt to include this info in their diplo GUIs. Ohh, they make a lousy attempt to show (-1 for we fear your vassals) or something but even still, it doesn't make any sense. Particularly if the vassals are are friendly with them as well.

I also found out that begging for gold (and getting it) does not lock you in 10 turns of peace, as most people here think it does. I had an AI backstab me 1 turn after giving in to my beg. How can that happen? I think there are a lot more changes in 3.17 than were logged.