AI loses steam as game progresses

[grumjug]

I like to play standard size continents maps at Emporer level in C3C - I have tried Demigod but the corruption was just too annoying for me to manage.

What I enjoy most are tech parity late industrial wars with bombers and destroyers and so on, yet I almost always find myself using tanks against knights and MDIs. It seems like when I played Vanilla this wasn't as much of a problem.

So my question is - other than raising the difficulty level, are there settings I should use that will tend to result in the AI advancing in the Industrial Age at the same speed they advanced earlier in the game?

NB - I even tried a no science game, but gave it up because the AI was learning new techs so amazingly slowly by the late middle ages.

 

[Tone]

Why not trade techs with them frequently? Even gift them if you have to. That way they'll keep up.

 

[Theryman]

You could increase the AI trade rate in the editor- I think it makes it cheaper for them to buy techs from each other or something.

 

[Optional]

I think the problem is the research path the AI chooses in the early AI - while the human player goes Steampower > Electricity > Replaceable Parts, the AI researches every single optional tech in the top branch, which slows them down immensely.
Even if you're selling them your techs, they will rarely research anything themselves, and this doesn't change on Demigod. Espionage allows them to steal a tech from you every now and then, and that's about it.
Sometimes a tech like Sanitation can help the AI, cities over 12 citizens can be a real benefit to the AI with their wide placement.

I wouldn't know an easy solution to the problem, though. Still trying to move up to Demigod might not be a bad thing, but I wouldn't know how to change the AI's weird research preferences. Modding the techs perhaps, but that could be a hit and miss affair.

 

[timerover51]

You could also try reducing the maximum time to research a tech in the general settings menu in the editor, and also increase the number of free techs that they start with. You could also add some inexpensive Small Wonders that would give 2 free techs when built, with one Wonder for each age. Or if you find them doing adequately in the Ancient Age, add the Wonders in for the Medieval, Industrial, and Modern Ages. What you might need is a combination of things to get the AI to research faster.

 

[Delphi456]

I wasn't aware corruption increased as difficulty increased.

 

[FriendoftheDork]

I like to play standard size continents maps at Emporer level in C3C - I have tried Demigod but the corruption was just too annoying for me to manage.

What I enjoy most are tech parity late industrial wars with bombers and destroyers and so on, yet I almost always find myself using tanks against knights and MDIs. It seems like when I played Vanilla this wasn't as much of a problem.

So my question is - other than raising the difficulty level, are there settings I should use that will tend to result in the AI advancing in the Industrial Age at the same speed they advanced earlier in the game?

NB - I even tried a no science game, but gave it up because the AI was learning new techs so amazingly slowly by the late middle ages.

Edit: I thought this was Civ4! Try BTS with some nice mods and scenario's And no corrption in that game, only city maintenence

I reccomend trying a scenario set in the appropriate age, such as WW2 mods or my own personal favourite: Wold War Wolf (shanze). Set in 1784, it close to the french revolution and quickly enters the Napoleonic early industrial age. With the Wolfshanze mod you also get access to new approprate ships, such as Ironclad battleships and cruisers, the more modern pre-dreadnought ship of the line, and the Dreadnoughts themselves that were the forunner to the modern WW2-1970s Battleships.

The advanced nations manage to keep up in tech easily, especially Britain, Netherlands and France, with nations like Prussia and Spain and Japan not far behind. If you enable some tech trading (no brokering) then even third world countries can keep up somewhat, making nations such as China, India (Marathma Confederacy), Vietnam and Mexico (New Spain, breaks free from Spain) be very close as well.

I've just had a very enoyable war where I used Infantry, Early tanks (22 str, +25% vs machineguns, 1 move) Airships and Early bombers (8 str, 6 move, some collateral) vs France who had Machineguns, Infantry, some early tanks and Airships and a more powerful navy (heavy ww2 cruisers vs my pre-dreadnoughts who died easily). I won because of an advantage in artillery and my better airpower. I would never have such late WW1-style war late in the game in a normal game of any kind.

Warning: Huge maps and 37 civs means you should probably go back to Monarch, unless you play UK or Netherlands, who are the most powerful in the game. In this game tech trading even helps the player as some nations are surely behind in tech already.

 

[grumjug]

Thanks for the replies. Since I am playing on a G5 iMac, I don't believe I have access to an editor. I guess gifting techs is a possibility, but it just seems wrong to me.

I really enjoyed the WW2 in the Pacific scenario, but I haven't tried to DL any of the others.

I guess I may have to try the move to Demigod, but I think it will be even more painful than the Monarch --> Emporer transition.

 

[Optional]

Since I am playing on a G5 iMac, I don't believe I have access to an editor.

Hm, I've no clue what a G5 iMac is; can't you open up the game properties with that? If you can, among the game files you'll see two that look like the CivIII symbol; one is the editor and the other is the default Conquests file. You can change either of those, except with the editor you'll save your changes as a scenario, to be accessed by clicking on Civ-Content on the start-up screen, and if you change the default Conquests file you'll have changed the default game, although you can always choose to click 'return to default rules' in the Conquests file if you want to go back.
A possibility would be to open up the editor or the Conquests file and go to rules > edit > difficulty levels, and to tweak the corruption downwards a bit, if that's your main point of discontent.
When I first moved up to Demigod I thought the step from Emperor was quite big, and I at first adjusted some settings as well, not the corruption, but I lowered the AI starting units a bit, and also the AI to AI trade advantage. If that makes the transition smoother, why not?

The AI will still be crap in the IA on Demigod (doesn't it like to see itself spelt backwards, perhaps?). They'll start off like a spear in the AA, and you'll have no answer to their provocations except grinding your teeth, but if you manage to be patient and develop your empire well - never mind it being a bit smaller than that of the AI - then you can hit back in the Middle Ages. Even if the successes there are a bit meagre, then the Industrial Age will give you plenty of opportunities, because the AI doesn't build decent offensive units anymore - just riflemen and infantry - and artillery it can't handle, so this is really not the AI's age. Even if you're behind as a human player you can come back in this timeframe.

 

[Padma]

There is no editor for the Mac version.

 

[Spoonwood]

In light of Optional's comment, for those who have this problem on a Windows computer, I'd say move hospitals back to Chemistry.

 

[Optional]

There is no editor for the Mac version.

Ah, I really didn't know that - sigh, I should have paid more attention to Timerover's notes about his modding efforts on a son's PC - doh!

 

[TheOverseer714]

Lacking an editor, what you can do is play at Emperor, pick a weak tribe, and play on a 60% water pangaea map. To further thing along, make half the opponents scientific, the other half industrious or agricultural. Pretty soon, you will have science parity.

 

[timerover51]

Thanks for the replies. Since I am playing on a G5 iMac, I don't believe I have access to an editor. I guess gifting techs is a possibility, but it just seems wrong to me.

I really enjoyed the WW2 in the Pacific scenario, but I haven't tried to DL any of the others.

I guess I may have to try the move to Demigod, but I think it will be even more painful than the Monarch --> Emporer transition.

First, you should be welcomed to the Forum appropriately, which all of us have failed to do. So, WELCOME!!!

Next, you are correct that you do not have access to an editor, which is quite irritating to Mac users, of which I am one. Therefore, you have a some options.

One, follow Overseer's advice to start with and see how that works, although if you play every game that way, it is likely to get boring.

Two, see if you can get access to a Windows PC and then get the Windows version of Civ3 complete, and use that editor in that to do your modding. I got around the problem by buying an surplus Dell desktop from my son's high school and getting the Windows version of Civ3. The biq files are interchangeable between the two systems.

Three, see if you can get someone to do a basic boosted science mod for you, using the minimum amount of changes to the game in terms of added buildings. I will see what I can do in the next couple of days to work one up for you, where you will be able to play on the full range of maps.

You might also try playing the Age of Discovery scenario that comes with the game, as that has minimum science research, and I have found to be quite challenging to play as the Dutch.

 

[grumjug]

Well, I am trying out Overseer's suggested game, playing as the Koreans and sharing the island with the Babs, Sumerians, Maya, Germans, Greeks, Iroquois, and Ottomans. I got a nice start (cow and a deer and a river) and the tech trading is already fierce at turn 20 or so. Hopefully I will manage to survive into the Middle Ages!

 

[TheOverseer714]

Settings like those are excellent for any late game VC, you might even launch in 1700 or get the UN vote in 1500.

 

[Snarkhunter]

Two, see if you can get access to a Windows PC and then get the Windows version of Civ3 complete, and use that editor in that to do your modding. I got around the problem by buying an surplus Dell desktop from my son's high school and getting the Windows version of Civ3. The biq files are interchangeable between the two systems.

Can't you also boot Windows directly & use a Windows C3 that way? Or score a copy of Parallel Fusion, install Windows in it, & again run a windows C3? From what I've seen, the VM windows in Parallel Fusion runs better & faster than native Windows (though perhaps hat was just a function of the underlying Mac hardware, hard to say without a better test).

kk

 

[timerover51]

Can't you also boot Windows directly & use a Windows C3 that way? Or score a copy of Parallel Fusion, install Windows in it, & again run a windows C3? From what I've seen, the VM windows in Parallel Fusion runs better & faster than native Windows (though perhaps hat was just a function of the underlying Mac hardware, hard to say without a better test).

kk

A G5 IMac is the last version of the IMac using the Power PC chip instead of the newer IMacs using the Intel Chip, so Parallels and loading Windows is not an option. I have just loaded Civ3 Complete on my son's older Dell laptop under Windows 7, since I do most of my playing on my Mac Ibook, with the older G4 processor.

 

[Blue Max]

RE losing steam, there seems to be some real AI limitations as the game progresses. I'm hoping it's just me. I play on a custom scenario, massive map, 14 different civs, hordes of custom units. Still, the game is very much a regular civ game, just expanded in capability not altered in play.

What limitations? Big picture - the AI has no concept of combined ops. I've noticed that the AI doesn't like to use aircraft carriers, fight with armies, or utilize the leaders it earns thru victories. I've added much larger troopships that will carry up to 30 units, but while the AI will build it, it still only moves 2 or 3 units. There also seems to be a size limitation on AI empires - it only likes to build so many cities. The Ai is at its best in the race thru the tech tree, building units faster than I can keep up and utilizing superior units before I reach parity. But once all the techs are earned, and I can grow strong enough, there even comes a time when the AI appears to sit and wait for its eventual demise. The quickest surrender is on the seas, where the AI simply gives up at a certain point and won't even venture out.

Was the game built for an optimum length? I've tweaked every aspect of the various civs (aggression, unit abilities, civ characterstics) but with only marginal improvement. Have I simply run into the limits of the AI? If so, is there any way possible to enable multiplayer on a Custom Scenario - I'd rather play myself if the AI can't be improved.

Sorry for the long post. I love C3C and just want to have a better gaming experience.

 

[timerover51]

RE losing steam, there seems to be some real AI limitations as the game progresses. I'm hoping it's just me. I play on a custom scenario, massive map, 14 different civs, hordes of custom units. Still, the game is very much a regular civ game, just expanded in capability not altered in play.

What limitations? Big picture - the AI has no concept of combined ops. I've noticed that the AI doesn't like to use aircraft carriers, fight with armies, or utilize the leaders it earns thru victories. I've added much larger troopships that will carry up to 30 units, but while the AI will build it, it still only moves 2 or 3 units. There also seems to be a size limitation on AI empires - it only likes to build so many cities. The Ai is at its best in the race thru the tech tree, building units faster than I can keep up and utilizing superior units before I reach parity. But once all the techs are earned, and I can grow strong enough, there even comes a time when the AI appears to sit and wait for its eventual demise. The quickest surrender is on the seas, where the AI simply gives up at a certain point and won't even venture out.

Was the game built for an optimum length? I've tweaked every aspect of the various civs (aggression, unit abilities, civ characterstics) but with only marginal improvement. If so, is there any way possible to enable multiplayer on a Custom Scenario - I'd rather play myself if the AI can't be improved.

Sorry for the long post. I love C3C and just want to have a better gaming experience.

I have been playing a modified version of the War in the Pacific scenario that came with the game under the multiplayer hot seat provision. You should have no trouble playing against yourself using the hot seat, you just have to give each civilization a different player name. To play online against a human opponent, you would both need to be using the same mod of the game, which would not be that difficult to do. The other player or players would simply need to install your mod and become familiar with it.

The AI in Civ3 is not really good at sea warfare or amphibious operations, and that holds true in other games as well. It also depends at what difficulty level you are playing at, since you did not say. You might also want to take a look at the succession games on the forum, although those are going to be played with the standard game.