AI Magic Use: Feedback Requested

[xienwolf]

I want to look into making the AI use their magic more effectively now that I have begun to make them create magical units. One of the chief ways I can do this is to change how they value their promotions. But I have to make them REALLY want to get the Spheres for Magic which the AI uses properly.


My request is this: What spells have you seen the AI use properly against you?



I don't care what version of FfH it was in. Just tell me if they have ever done something that was appropriate with their magic use. Then I can make the AI have a high tendancy to promote in that sphere if it is available.

And if you have time for some serious playtesting: Grant the AI a couple of Arcane units with some spellspheres already promoted, then see if they use them "appropriately" in your opinion. (like place some Air 2 + Sorcery units in a city and then try to attack it with 1 units)

 

[Slvynn]

Enchanted blade, whirlwind, haste, entangle.

Amurite firebow archers not using fireball properly. They using them for defence though, but well. 4 firebows defending amurite city - they will be spawning 4 fireballs each turn and that makes you need to kill 8 units instead 4 in 60% defence city, which is actually annoying

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, that is probably because Firebows use the Archer AI, which assumes they should always stay in their cities for defense. They won't be out in the field to cast fireball close enough to city to use them where they would be most useful.

 

[xienwolf]

I'll check to make sure that the Fireball is set to City Lemming AI, that should make them attack even if the odds aren't in their favor, if I am translating it right)

 

[Nimbus]

spells i have seen the AI use summon tiger(had to go there), raise skeleton, summon wraith, conjure earth elemental, enchanted blade, spiritual hammer, scorch, ring of flames(esp. Basium when he is you partner in your lands), summon guardian vines(usually in bad spots), entangle, and that new sun sphere blind spell.

 

[Sarisin]

I can't add any to those that have already been mentioned.

One spell they need to start using is Spring. This is particularly true with the ramped up Blight that is around now. As I moved into AI territories, I was amazed by all the desert tiles.

Of course, it is also good to used vs. the spread of hell terrain and putting out fires and such, but that may be too complex.

Also, you never see them use Sanctify, and that is one reason, IMO, why the counter moves ahead quicker.

You don't see many AI units with Courage or Loyalty.

These are all simple Adept Channeling I spells.

They do seem pretty good at summoning things at times...Skeletons, Spectres, Treants, etc. When you look at the Kills Stats at the end of the game there are always plenty of dead summoned critters there, but I don't recall having much combat with them.

Sorry I didn't really answer your question, but I just don't see them using much magic...although, occasionally I hear some strange thumping sounds and see light flashes.

 

[daladinn]

the AI seems to do pretty well with summons when attacking something it sees and that is within a "specified" range. where i think the AI is going a bit wrong is in being able to summon. here is a few opinions of mine...

1- AI casters need to prioritize at least 1 sphere capable of summoning (if that route)

2- the AI needs to determine if its going aggressive or defensive and decide on the techs it has. sadly this is where forethought is needed and the AI does not plan ahead.

3- if the summoning and arcane trait are present they need to be weighted heavily and have some of the AI tweaked accordingly.

example with the sheiam ...
the sheiam are heavy summoners so the summoning tree is of great importance. they start out with 2 forms of magic capable of all 3 tiers in summoning but 1 is much better then the other and should be weighted so. say 70% chaos 30% fire when an adept is made. once the first choice is made it should check to see if the next step is available before going to another promo. so promo order would be chaos 1,2,3 , then spell extension 1,2 , then combat 1-5 , then any additional spheres. another critical AI change for the sheiam would be to increase its "sight" and "aggressive" ranges on summons to reflect the 3 turns that the summons will last as well as the movement rate of the summons. for AI caster movement your going to want to keep the casters in cities but have them move to "border" towns that are within the expanded range of a hostile city.

i used the sheiam in my example because they are the hardest one to get the AI to work through.

 

[xienwolf]

Nimbus: Summon Tiger? I think a joke just went over my head...

Sarisin: Spring & Sanctify probably don't get used because as far as the computer sees it, they don't DO anything. I am pretty sure that unless there is an XML ability which would be read by the Civlopedia automatically, the AI doesn't realize that it does ANYTHING. So that is something probably beyond my ability to fix just yet. Sanctify is pretty much in the same boat.

Courage & Loyalty I might add a small attack boost onto them just so the AI sees some value in using them. That hsould make you see them as often as you see enchanted blade.

Daladinn: And making the AI prioritize at least 1 sphere capable of SOMETHING is what I made the thread for I need to make sure that the somethings which I make them prioritize are used properly, and not just my personal favorites

Not entirely sure if I can force the AI to change strategies based off the traits they have, but I can make the UU much more valued, which will lead to them building more of them and hopefully cause them to match their flavor. Sadly since the Eater of Dreams is a national unit you still won't see dozens of them, but hopefully I can make them always have 3 on the field.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Nimbus: Summon Tiger? I think a joke just went over my head...

They used to spam HN tigers in steady streams at the closest player. The spell was removed, but they used it when it was there.

 

[eerr]

enchanted blade, take item, are only used when in the right tile, as well as spring
to give spring ai, you must make the computer send adepts with water 1 to the appropriate tiles

 

[Slvynn]

Also some algorythm for countering should be made - like AI need to kill Achron the Red Dragon and cant- , he encounter Fear, so he need to aim to recieve Spirit mana to have courage to cast.

 

[feydras]

Would it be possible to just grant each AI melee unit the Enchanted Weapon promotion if they own both Enchantment mana and an adept+? This would accomplish the same thing and seems much easier than teaching the AI to move around looking for units to cast on. The same could be done for any permanent buff spell, ie Courage and Loyalty. Then use the same idea to check for a Enchantment mana and a Mage to auto promote Enchant Fire Arrows.
This is kind of the equivalent to granting the AI the 'no buildings requirement' and the need is much greater as the AI can build advanced buildings but seems to have a much harder time with spell casting.


A big related problem is i don't believe i've ever seen any AI Mages or Archmages. I used to see Conjurers and Summoners and see the AI use summons effectively from them but haven't since at least .25.

- feydras

 

[xienwolf]

One could tweak the buff spells by a mechanic along those lines (but I don't think you could actually do the check for a mage unless you did it through an event that would automatically trigger if they ever had a mage in a city with access to that mana type, then it assigned a promotion to all existing and future units). But the main point here is to learn what the AI is doing properly so that we can make the other spells work through a similar mechanic and thus allow the AI to understand all spells.