My biggest concern with what I'm doing is that I'm restricting all my observations to Standard size, Continents, Standard speed, Deity level games. But as I'll never get even enough observations of this set of game setup conditions, I'm not inclined to branch out and dilute my observations by recording different game setups.
I'd love to have a comparison of Pangea vs Continents, Small map size vs Standard, etc. but for now I'll just settle for what I'm doing.
I think your results are going to be extremely distorted when civs have
Gilgamesh, Montezuma or Amanitore as next-door neighbours.
There are certainly a lot of combinations to consider without adding
complications with map types.
There are only 30,260,340 ways of choosing 8 civs from 36, so I'm sure you'll
have a balanced set of results for us very soon.
I'd be very interested in reading the results obtained by other people, under whatever conditions they choose to run them under. I'd never ask someone else to do so, though, because this takes a lot of time (the way I'm doing it at any rate).
Test Game 7
Me: Tamar
AI: Catherine, Gilgamesh, Jayavarman, John Curtin, Peter, Philip, Shaka
Game Seed: 711690264
Map Seed: 711700244
AI Victory Achieved: T299 Science
AI Aggressiveness Impact: 3 over 5 events (War Events: 0, Aggressive Spy Events: 5; Impact by Era Ancient: 0, Classical: 0, Medieval: 2, Renaissance: 0, Industrial: 0, Modern: 0, Atomic: 1, Information: 0)
Test Game Summary
Starting position: Above average. Olives to settle on beside a mountain and three tiles for boosts (quarry, pasture, rice farm). A river closeby offers a site for a second city with woods and hills, but I find Piopiotahi next door for an even better culture rich second city site (which I race to before Catherine can claim).
Deviations from plan: none
Ages: Ancient Era ended T46, Classical Normal Age ended T86, Medieval Normal Age ended T126, Renaissance Normal Age ended T166, Industrial Normal Age ended T210, Modern Normal Age ended T250, Atomic Normal Age ended T290, Information Golden Age
Barbarians: T12 my Warrior finds a Scout, T19 I track it back to it's Camp (cleared T22) while a 2nd Scout appears from a different direction, T35 3 Warriors 2 Slingers spawned by the 2nd Scout appear, T50 a second round of spawning is happening as I approach the Camp, creating 8 Warriors, 1 Swordsman, 4 Archers, 1 Slinger, T67 I spot a another Camp that is contributing to the flood of units (cleared 1st Camp T72, 2nd Camp T89), T116 3 Swordsmen 4 Crossbowmen attack my walled city (Camp cleared T127), T188 a Camp appears near my tundra city, I kill it's Scout before it can trigger a spawn (cleared T190)
Neighbours: T7 Catherine (our Warriors meet, to my north east), T25 Gilgamesh (his Scout, to my east), T60 Jayavarman (my Galley meets his Scout, further east than Gilgamesh), T89 Philip (my Galley, north of Gilgamesh), T91 John Curtin (my Galley, east of Philip north of Jayavarman), T116 Shaka (his Caravel, other continent), T130 Peter (my Galley met his Apostle, other continent)
Great People Recruited by me: T169 Dmitri Mendeleev, T218 Albert Einstein, T263 Grace Hopper, T265 Mark Leakey, T281 Rabindranath Tagore, T282 Vincent Van Gogh
City State deaths: T19, T21, T33, T59, T80 (Vilnius, ends game liberated, see details below) [surviving: Geneva, Vilnius, Antananarivo, Kumasi, Terevan, Granada, Buenos Aires, Auckland, I'm Suzerain of Geneva and Auckland]
Spoiler:
T80 Vilnius is taken by Gilgamesh. T94 liberated by Catherine. T226 Catherine declares war on Vilnius but Jayavarman declares war on it, too, and captures it before Catherine can. The city would flip from Jayavarman in two turns, but it triggers an Emergency that only Catherine joins. She fails at the Emergency, but a dozen turns after the Emergency fails the city loyalty flips to Catherine. T281 Vajayvarman recaptures Vilnius from Catherine and liberates it! Then on T289, Jayavarman declares war on Vilnius!! But by now he's at peace with Catherine and can't cross her territory to reach Vilnius, which is still free and under no threat at game end.)
Civ deaths: T223 Gilgamesh (by Catherine mostly, though his last city loyalty flipped to her)
Emergencies: 3, 2 failed, 1 succeeded
Wonders by me: none
Wonders by AI: T35 Stonehenge, T36 Hanging Gardens, T52 Temple of Artemis, T55 Jebel Barkal, T58 Pyramids, T69 Oracle (Jayavarman), T70 Great Library, T92 Apadana, T94 Mahabodhi Temple (Philip), T97 Colossus, T104 Great Lighthouse (Philip), T107 Chichen Itza (Catherine), T116 Colosseum (Catherine), T122 Kotoku-In (Shaka), T125 St. Basil's, T129 Potala Palace (Shaka), T140 Great Zimbabwe (Shaka), T141 Terracotta Army (Jayavarman), T142 Alhambra (Catherine), T146 Angkor Wat (Jayavarman), T150 Petra (Catherine), T151 Forbidden City (Catherine), T161 Big Ben (Shaka), T162 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (Shaka), T165 Casa de Contratacion (Shaka), T179 Statue of Liberty (Peter), T182 Oxford University (Shaka), T185 Hagia Sophia (Philip), T189 Venetian Arsenal (Shaka), T192 Broadway (Peter), T194 Ruhr Valley (Shaka), T196 Mont St Michel (Shaka), T207 Kilwa Kisiwani (Philip), T211 Taj Mahal (Philip), T222 Sydney Opera House (Peter), T224 Estadio do Maracana (Peter), T227 Hermitage (Jayavarman), T232 Cristo Redentor (Catherine), T266 Bolshoi Theatre (Peter), T282 Eiffel Tower (Jayavarman)
AI Victory Review
T299 Science Victory by Shaka
Shaka (15 cities) built his first Spaceport T220, completed the second stage T246, launched his first Mars component T264, and was one step away from finishing at T287. No one else was even close. John Curtin (4 cities) built his Spaceport T26o and was still 5 steps away from finishing at game end. Catherine (16 cities) built her Spaceport T284 and Philip (12 cities) built his T296. Peter (12 cities) didn't build a Spaceport.
Peter was the culture leader at 203 of 402, but was never threatening to win as Catherine was generating more domestic tourists than Peter was foreign tourists. Catherine in second place was even further away, at 175 of 818 required.
No one had any success religiously. Philip converted 2/7 Civs.
Catherine held Gilgamesh's former capital.
AI Aggressive Actions
Spoiler:
T119 "Unknown" i.e. Catherine's Siphoned Funds: Low Impact
Stole 112 gold from my capital.
T129 Failed Spy Mission (Spy Escaped): No Impact
T151 Failed Spy Mission (Spy Escaped): No Impact
T168 Failed Spy Mission (Spy Escaped): No Impact
T261 Spy Recruited Partisans: Very Low Impact
Two Infantry pillaged a building and were then destroyed.
Game Observations
Shaka achieved my first observed sub-T300 victory (barely). He didn't do it by conquest, either, as he took no City States nor any cities from any other Civ. Of the four City States bordering his starting territory, three survived the game, the fourth (Lisbon) having been conquered by it's other neighbour, Peter. Shaka also colonized a mini continent, settling 5 cities on it while leaving all three of the City States that started there alive.
Very asymmetric distribution of civs, with 6 (including me) starting on the same continent and only two (Shaka and Peter) starting on the other, smaller continent. There was also a mini-continent with 3 City States which only Shaka colonized (with 5 cities), and a large island that nobody settled.
An Atomic Golden Age for Philip let him flip one city each from France, Australia, and the Khmer.
Test Game 8
Me: Tamar
AI: Chandragupta, Cleopatra, Gitarja, Lautaro, Poundmaker, Teddy, Tomyris
Game Seed: -6938059
Map Seed: -6938058
AI Victory Achieved: T301 Science
AI Aggressiveness Impact: 0 over 0 events (War Events: 0, Aggressive Spy Events: 0; Impact by Era Ancient: 0, Classical: 0, Medieval: 0, Renaissance: 0, Industrial: 0, Modern: 0, Atomic: 0, Information: 0)
Test Game Summary
Starting position: Looked okayish. River and mountain, a few forests and hills, but poor mix of tiles for initial improvement eurekas (two cow pastures and one wheat) and no luxury in good position to settle on (and I moved off the only plains hill to make room for two more cities on the coast line later). Cities two and three both ended up with +4 Campuses, though, which made the starting position much stronger.
Deviations from plan: Nothing significant. Delayed golden ages as long as I could, delaying actions to avoid slipping into one from the Medieval to Industrial eras, but couldn't avoid taking them in Atomic and Information eras.
Ages: Ancient Era ended T45, Classical Dark Ages ended T85, Medieval Normal Age ended T125, Renaissance Normal Age ended T165, Industrial Normal Age ended T205, Modern Normal Age ended T245, Atomic Golden Age ended T285, Information Golden Age
Barbarians: T12 Camp appears near my capital (cleared T18), T36 Camp appears near where I'll settle my third city, T37 Scout from that camp spots my capital, spawns 1 Warrior then Muscat clears the camp, T45 Camp appears near my capital (cleared T49)
Neighbours: T42 Cleopatra (her Scout, to my south), T43 Chandragupta (my Warrior, to my southwest), T64 Tomyris (my Warrior, to my west), T96 Gitarja (her City State's Galley, other continent) T116 Lautaro (his boat?, other continent), T189 Teddy (my Scout met his Apostle, other continent)
Great People Recruited by me: T166 Charles Darwin, T208 Alfred Nobel, T221 Jaoquim Lisboa, T235 Alexander Pushkin, T256 Sofonisba Anguissola, T269 Stephanie Kwolek, T272 Mark Twain, T296 Marie-Anne Collot
City State deaths: T21, T26, T27, T37, T63 (Yerevan by Cleopatra, T188 Chandragupta liberates it), T162, [T289 Lautaro liberted Vilnius from Gitarja], T292 (Antananarivo by Teddy) [Granada, Mohenjo-Daro, Kumasi, Vilnius, Muscat, Hattusa, Yerevan survive, I'm Suzerain of Muscat, Kumasi, and Hattusa]
Civ deaths: T79 Poundmaker (by Teddy)
Emergencies: 1, in progress at game end
Wonders by me: none
Wonders by AI: T35 Temple of Artemis, T38 Stonehenge, T49 Hanging Gardens, T56 Pyramids, T70 Oracle (Chandragupta), T71 Great Library (Tomyris), T74 Jebel Barkal (Tomyris), T76 Petra (Tomyris), T87 Mahabodhi Temple, T109 Chichen Itza, T110 Kotoku-In (Gitarja), T120 Huey Teocalli (Lautaro), T124 Colossus (Gitarja), T132 Mont St Michel, T136 Great Lighthouse (Chadragupta), 140 Terracotta Army (Lautaro), T145 Colosseum (Gitarja), T148 Hagia Sophia (Cleopatra), T151 Great Zimbabwe (Lautaro), T155 Mauseleum of Halicarnassus (Tomyris), T171 Potala Palace (Tomyris), T173 Big Ben (Lautaro), T174 Taj Mahal (Tomyris), T177 Kilwa Kisiwani (Tomyris), T180 Forbidden City (Lautaro), T184 Statue of Liberty (Gitarja), T191 Oxford University (Lautaro), T202 Hermitage (Cleopatra), T209 Ruhr Valley (Teddy), T212 Casa de Contratacion (Chandragupta), T222 Venetian Arsenal (Tomyris), T233 Cristo Redentor (Cleopatra), T236 Broadway (Cleopatra), T280 Eiffel Tower (Lautaro), T300 Estadio do Maracana (Teddy)
AI Victory Review
T301 Science Victory Lautaro
Lautaro (13 cities) builds Spaceport T220, completes second stage T240, is one step away at T295, and wins T301. Chandragupta (14 cities) is 3 steps away, having built his Spaceport T251. Teddy (21 cities) built his T259, Cleopatra (16 cities) built hers T269, Gitarja (9 cities) built hers T278, Tomyris (10 cities) built hers T283.
No cultural victory for Teddy this time. This time he ends up like most culture leaders, unable to generate more foreign tourists at any point than others are generating domestic tourists. He finished 126/448, Tomyris was 102/448, Cleaopatra was 97/446.
Teddy ended with Poundmaker's original capital, and on T298 took Gitarja's original capital from Lautaro with a naval invasion. He had no Loyalty pressure over it, however, and T301 it flipped to Free City. Had the game continued it would have gone back to Gitarja.
No one had any success religiously. Gitarja and Chandragupta each converted 2/7 civs.
AI Aggressive Actions
Spoiler:
None, even though I was second in the space race at all times.
Game Observations
Poundmaker's unique Scout did him no good this game. He was eliminated far earlier than any other major civ I've observed to date, getting overrun by the early bonus-less Teddy, who took over all three of his cities after Poundmaker forward settled cities two and three only four tiles each from Teddy's capital. [Edit: I forgot that Teddy gets +5 combat strength on his home continent. That may have been what did Poundmaker in.]
T288 Lautaro used a nuke against Gitarja, first time I've observed use of nuclear weapons in these test games.
T290 Lautaro started using Bombers (by T297 Jet Bombers) against Gitarja, hitting a City Centre, two Commercial Hubs, two Industrial Zones, a plantation, a mine, and two farms.
When you start next to Chandragupta, you expect an attack sooner or later. Not this game. He spent the whole game disliking me, denouncing me, and otherwise ignoring me. Not so much as a Spy was sent my way, by him or any of the other AI civs.
Test Game 9
Me: Tamar
AI: Cyrus, Gorgo, Harald, Montezuma, Mvembe, Qin, Trajan
Game Seed: -1461553121
Map Seed: -1461553120
AI Victory Achieved: T327 Science
AI Aggressiveness Impact: 20 over 4 events (War Events: 3, Aggressive Spy Events: 1; Impact by Era Ancient: 4, Classical: 0, Medieval: 0, Renaissance: 0, Industrial: 8, Modern: 0, Atomic: 0, Information: 8)
Test Game Summary
Starting position: Good. River, mountain, lots of forest, some hills. Luxuries are on the weak side (dyes, spice) with none suitable for settling and no plains hill for settling, and only two resources for inital improvement boosts (wheat, stone).
Deviations from plan: Modern Golden Age but otherwise none.
Ages: Ancient Era ended T46, Classical Dark Age ended T86, Medieval Normal Age ended T126, Renaissance Normal Age ended T166, Industrial Normal Age ended T206, Modern Golden Age ended T246, Atomic Normal Age ended T286, Information Golden Age
Barbarians: T11 Scout finds my capital, T17 Camp spotted, T34 1 Warrior appears but nothing more (T50 Qin clears the Camp), T101 Scout finds a city (killed same turn), T114 Scout finds a city (killed same turn), T123 Scout finds a city (killed same turn), T131 Scout finds a city (killed same turn), T132 2 Swordsmen, 1 Crossbowman, 1 Archer attack my city (Camp cleared T139)
Neighbours: T4 Harald (our Warriors meet, to my west), T24 Qin (his Scout, to my south), T27 Mvembe (his Scout, to my south east), T102 Trajan (his boat?, other continent), T104 Cyrus (his Missionary, beyond Mvembe), T124 Gorgo (her Privateer, other continent), T173 Montezuma (my Scout met his Great Engineer, other continent)
Great People Recruited by me: T197 Alfred Nobel, T271 Masaru Ibuka, T275 Stephane Kwolek, T283 Raabindranath Tagore, T285 Edmonia Lewis
City State deaths: T18, T34, T38 (Kandy by Qin), T47, T49, T106, T113, T204 (Antioch by Trajan, liberated by Gorgo, T309 conquered by Trajan again), T219 (Geneva by Qin) [Valetta, Brussels, Buenos Aires survived]
Civ deaths: none
Emergencies: 6, 1 succeeded 2 failed, 3 in progress at game end
Wonders by me: none
Wonders by AI: T29 Stonehenge, T38 Hanging Gardens, T65 Pyramids, T65 Temple of Artemis (Qin), T68 Oracle, T71 Apadana (Mvembe), T79 Great Lighthouse, T80 Great Library, T88 Petra, T93 Chichen Itza, T96 Mahabodhi Temple, T101 Colossus, T106 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (Trajan), T109 Kotoku-In (Qin), T117 Colosseum, T130 Kilwa Kisiwani (Qin), T131 St. Basil's Cathedral (Cyrus), T134 Potala Palace (Mvembe), T141 Huey Teocalli (Gorgo), T143 Hagia Sophia (Trajan), T147 Alhambra (Qin), T156 Forbidden City (Gorgo), T162 Big Ben (Qin), T167 Jebel Barkal, T173 Oxford (Qin), T174 Statue of Liberty (Gorgo), T175 Cristo Redentor (Gorgo), T178 Casa de Contratacion (Montezuma), T181 Great Zimbabwe (Qin), T182 Terracotta Army (Montezuma), T186 Mont St. Michel (Cyrus), T191 Venetian Arsenal (Gorgo), T193 Ruhr Valley (Montezuma), T209 Hermitage (Trajan), T224 Angkor Wat (Harald), T228 Estadio do Maracana (Gorgo), T241 Broadway (Mvembe), T285 Sydney Opera House (Gorgo), T300 Eiffel Tower (Harald)
AI Victory Review
T327 Science Victory Montezuma
Montezuma (13 cities) built a Spaceport T230, completed the second stge T262, and was one step from victory T315. Trajan (16 cities) was only 1 step away at game end, having built a Spaceport T269, completed the scond stage T271, and reaching one step away T321. Qin (15 cities) built a Spaceport T263, completed the second stage T311, and was two steps away at game end. Mvembe (7 cities) built a Spaceport relatively early on T244, but didn't complete the second stage until same time as Qin on T311, and was three steps away at game end. Gorgo (13 cities) built a Spaceport T259, completed the second stage T291, and was three steps away at game end, having researched all the Mars components but built none of them. Cyrus (11 cities) did not build a Spaceport. Harald (9 cities) optimistically completed a Spaceport on T326.
Gorgo was the runaway culture leader and came close to a cultural victory, despite a poor tourism-culture conversion rate, ending at 409/426. Cyrus was next at 178/1356
No one held any foreign capitals. Qin held Harald's capital early, but it loyalty flipped back to Harald.
Cyrus and Harld each converted 2/8 civs.
AI Aggressive Actions
Spoiler:
T22 Harald Surprise War: Modest Impact
6 Warriors attack my unwalled capital. T30 I upgrade to Archers. T36 Harald sends up 1 Warrior, 1 Slinger reinforcements. T43 he offers 139 + 1/t gold (all he has) for peace (accepted). Debrief: If the attack had come a couple of turns earlier, I would have been sunk. As it was, I got a slinger and second Warrior out just in time. My Warriors were (barely) able to hold the river line in front of my city until I was able to upgrade to Archers and dispatch the threat. I lose one Warrior and time.
T199 Qin Surprise War: High Impact
1 Great General, 2 Infantry Corp, 1 Infantry, 1 Field Cannon, 1 Artillery attack my city, bolstered by Defender of the Faith. I have Musketmen, Knights, and Field Cannon. They pillage 3 trade routes. T204 he takes my city. T206 2 Battleships appear. I only have 2 Frigates, but the Battleships sail on. T208 I upgrade to Infantry. T209 he offers 42/t gold for peace (refused). T212 he offers 42/t gold for peace (refused). T215 he offers 62/t gold for peace (refused). T217 he brings up 1 Infantry reinforcement escorting a Settler, 1 Artillery Army, 1 Artillery. T218 he offers 62/t gold for peace (refused). T221 he offers 102/t gold for peace (refused). T222 I kill the Infantry escort and capture his Settler. T222 he brings up 2 Infantry, 2 Artillery reinforcements. T224 he offers 125/t gold for peace (refused). T225 he brings up an Infantry Corps and Supply Convoy and counterattacks the forces trying to retake my city, killing an Infantry of mine. T226 Gorgo and Harald attack Qin. T227 I recapture my city. T127 he offers 126/t gold for peace (accepted). Debrief: Two Infantry Corp and an Artillery with Defender of the Faith take down my city quite efficiently before the Musketman and Field Cannon defending it can knock out the Artillery. After that, Qin didn't seem to have any objective until I was threatening to retake my city, when he mustered reinforcements for the defence, making its reconquest a fairly slow affair.
T249 Cyrus Surprise War: No Impact
T255 an "invasion" consisting of a triple-promoted Immortals Corp with a Medic, 1 Pikeman escorting a Settler, 1 Pikeman with a Medic, 1 Knight, 1 Crossbowman Army, 5 Crossbowmen, and 1 Catapult Corp arrive by sea without naval escort. It's a slaughter against my Battleship and 2 Submarines, with my Ironclad capturing the Settler. T259 he offers 64/t gold for peace (accepted). Debrief: What the heck, Cyrus? You're half an era ahead of me on the tech tree. Why all the old troops? First time I've observed an obsolete army attack during these test games. And without naval escort. Yikes! PS T259 after the peace treaty, a Persian Ironclad appears. A little late, Captain. PPS Cyrus wasn't finished. He later attacked Harald. On T288 I watched a convoy of Crossbowmen, Knights, and Medics sail by, headed towards destruction at Harald's hands. PPPS T320 Cyrus now sends a stream of AT Guns, Artillery, and Medics at Harald, which at least are only tech era behind the times.
T288 Spy Disrupted Spaceport (escaped): High Impact
Nicely timed, knocking me offline for 8 turns just as I was about to finish the Moon Landing.
Game Observations
Another science victory, but Gorgo had a real chance to pull off a cultural victory.
There were two, relatively equally-sized continents (plus a large island in between them), but mine had 5 civs and the other 3 civs. The 3 civs on the other continent are, perhaps unsurprisingly, the three civs challenging for victory at game end.
I observed, via news reports, the first major nuclear war of these test games. T316 Trajan and Montezuma used nukes against each other, triggering twin emergency opps. T318 Montezuma uses another nuke and Trajan uses two. T319 Montezuma uses another nuke and Trajan uses another two. T321 Montezuma uses another nuke. They're using some against each other and some against Gorgo, who's at war with both of them through the emergencies. T323 Trajan and Montezuma make peace; now they're both just at war with Gorgo, but no more nukes are used.
I may have noticed a critical failure in the AI's approach to religious conversions. Cyrus's attempted conversion followed same pattern as I'd previously observed: a wave of Apostles that has success, then a later huge wave (of Missionaries that undoes the progress made by the Apostles, as the faith lost when the Missionaries are killed by Harald's Apostles exceeds the faith generated by the Missionary actions. It seems that the AI will build ether a group of Apostles or a group of Missionaries, but never a mixed group of both. When they send out a wave of Apostles, they will typically make progress. A wave of Missionaries sets them back horribly. I haven't seen a Guru used to support these attacks, either with Apostle wave or the Missionary wave. I'll start a new thread on this, to ask for the observations of others.
Test Game 10
Me: Tamar
AI: Frederick, Hojo, Pedro, Robert, Saladin, Victoria, Wilhelmina
Game Seed: -57335113
Map Seed: -57335112
AI Victory Achieved: T280 Science
AI Aggressiveness Impact: 6 over 2 events (War Events: 2, Aggressive Spy Events: 0; Impact by Era Ancient: 0, Classical: 0, Medieval: 2, Renaissance: 4, Industrial: 0, Modern: 0, Atomic: 0, Information: n/a)
Test Game Summary
Starting position: Average. A River and a few Forests, but pretty flat (Plains and Marsh) and no Mountains. I could have settled on a Luxury (Mercury), but it would have meant only one Resource for improving (Wheat), so I settled nearby instead to be able to also reach Horses and get the Mining boost for the Mercury.
Deviations from plan: nothing significant
Ages: Ancient Era ended T49, Classical Dark Ages ended T89, Medieval Normal Age ended T129, Renaissance Normal Age ended T169, Industrial Normal Age ended T209, Modern Normal Age ended T249, Atomic Normal Age (game end), Information n/a
Barbarians: T3 Scout spotted, T15 I find the Camp (cleared T26), T65 Camp appears (cleared T71)
Neighbours: T12 Hojo (he settles a city 6 tiles from my capital, to my north), T36 Pedro (our Scouts meet, to my west), T42 Wilhelmina (our Scouts met, north of Pedro), T174 Frederick (my Caravel met his Trader, other continent), T174 Robert the Bruce (my Caravel met his Scout, other continent), T182 Victoria (my Caravel, other continent), T185 Saladin (my Caravel met his Apostle, other continent)
Friendships/Alliances: none
Cities Settled: 1st city: T1, 2nd city: T46, 3rd city: T57, 4th city: T114 tundra city, 5th city: T129 tundra city, 6th city: T169 tundra city
Pantheon: T78 Lady of Reed & Marshes
Great People Recruited by me: T210 Albert Einstein
City State deaths: T18, T22, T26, T31, T35, T52, T99 (Granada by Wilhelmina), T104, T133 (Stockholm by Wilhelmina), T228 (Toronto by Frederick), T238 (Palenque by Wilhelmina) [Antanarivo survived]
Civ deaths: none
Emergencies: 4, 3 failed, 1 in progress at game end
Wonders by me: none
Wonders by AI: T26 Stonehenge, T42 Hanging Gardens, T54 Temple of Artemis, T65 Oracle, T66 Great Lighthouse (Wilhelmina), T67 Pyramids, T75 Apadana, T77 Jebel Barkal (Hojo), T80 Mahabodhi Temple, , T89 Colossus (Wilhelmina), T92 Petra (Hojo), T104 Great Library, T106 Colosseum, T112 Kotoku-In, T116 Chichen Itza, T122 Alhambra (Wilhelmia), T132 Kilwa Kisiwani, T140 Teracotta Army (Wilhelmina), T144 Hagia Sophia, T144 Mont St Michel, T148 Ruhr Valley, T149 Potala Palace, T152 Oxford, T153 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, T155 Great Zimbabwe (Pedro), T160 Statue of Liberty (Wilhelmina), T162 Huey Teocalli, T170 St. Basil's, T180 Forbidden City, T182 Big Ben (Hojo), T188 Taj Mahal (Frederick), T195 Casa de Contratacion (Robert), T206 Hermitage (Wilhelmina), T209 Broadway (Victoria), T226 Cristo Redentor (Hojo), T236 Eiffel Tower (Robert), T256 Estadio do Maracana (Victoria),
AI Victory Review
T280 Science Victory Robert the Bruce
By T190, Robert (20 cities) is a full tech era ahead of Hojo (16 cities) and Wilhelmina (20 cities), two eras ahead of the other AI civs, and three eras ahead of me. Robert built a Spaceport T193 (27 turns earlier than observed in any prior game), completed the second stage T215, and was one step away at T269. No other civ had even completed the second stage of the space race at game end. Saladin (13 cities) built a Spaceport T252. Wilhelmina built a Spaceport T275. T278 Pedro (11 cities) built a Spaceport T278. Victoria (13 cities) and Frederick (11 cities) didn't build Spaceports before game end.
No one threated a cultural victory. Victoria has highest at 101/394 at game end.
Robert took Frederick's capital right before game end.
Hojo, Pedro, and Saladin converted 2/8 each.
AI Aggressive Actions
Spoiler:
T91 Hojo Surprise War: Low Impact
4 Swordsmen, 2 Chariots, 1 Archer, 1 Battering Ram attack my walled capital. I have Archers and Swordsmen. Hojo kills an Archer I didn't think he could reach across a river, but otherwise does nothing in his initial attack. T97 he brings up 2 Samurais, 3 Swordsmen as reinforcement. T101 he offers 494 + 12/t gold for peace (accepted). Debrief: if the Samurais had been in the initial wave, instead of being reinforcements, I would have been in trouble. As it was, his attack was little more than a nuisance once the Battering Ram was dealt with.
T155 Hojo Surprise War: Modest Impact
A friendly Hojo sends 11 Musketmen, 1 Swordsman, 3 Knights, 1 Crossbowman, 1 Bombard to attack my capital. I have Knights, Swordsmen, Crossbowmen, and 1 Khevsur. They kill a Swordsman trying to hold the river line in the initial surprise atack, then my Knight suicides itself to weaken the Bombard. It's barely enough, as the Bombard down to 10 health still killed half my walls in one shot. I suicide another 2 Swordsmen and 1 Knight, stationing them in front of the city to absorb hits while blocking melee atacks. T162 I upgrade my last remaining Swordsman to a Musketman. T165 he offers 103/t gold for peace (accepted). Debrief: This game is starting to feel like test game one (fortunately, with Hojo rather than Amanitore as my neighbour). The cramped starting space means insufficient cities to keep up with the AI in tech. The AI may not be inclined to attack a human player who's in the lead, but it's quite comfortable attacking a human player that's a tech level behind.
Game Observations
I wasn't sure my postage stamp sized tundra "empire" would survive long enough to observe an AI win. Hojo settled one city close to my capital T12, a second on T31, and a third on T47, completely blocking me off from any expansion north. To my east is coast, and to my south is tundra and coast. I try to expand westward, but Pedro lays down two new cities in quick succession, blocking me in that direction, too. In a normal game, I'd take Hojo's cities and follow up with Pedro's, but playing peacefully for this test game, I do my best to muddle along.
Robert the Bruce's victory is the first substantially sub-T300 victory observed. None of the other AI were anywhere close to victory, and were probably tracking for around a circa T320 win, but Robert took an early science lead and held it.
I'd seen enough of an outlier in the other direction that I've been expecting an outlier in this direction, too. I'm still not sure exactly sure where the mean is going to settle in at, but the expected range is starting to come into focus.
Now the question is whether T280 is really an outlier or are victories in this time range (or earlier) more likely than the first few games have indicated? I'd guess not based on observing all the civs (not just the winners) but who knows.
One thing I'm not sure about yet is why the AI takes as long as it does from the time it builds a Spaceport to the time it wins a science victory. Sometimes it's a science bottleneck, which I can see by how long it takes until they research all of the Mars techs. But other times they have everything researched and are slow to launch or finish the projects. Possibly it's because their Spaceport(s) have been disrupted by Spies. Possibly it's because they have higher priority things to build (defensive war?) Or possibly it's as simple as the AI finds it challenging to coordinate production bonuses, great engineers, Royal Society Builders, etc.
Something else I'm wondering about is whether an AI that gets some early relics/great works can get a very early culture victory? By about T200, the cultural AI leaders generally struggle to generate foreign tourists faster than their neighbours creating domestic tourists, but prior to T200, when no one has too many tourists, I wonder if some combination of events could set up a civ for a very early cultural victory?
Scotland get very high science per turn in many of my games so I am not surprised to see then there.
I was thinking that the reason it takes AI so long to win after Spaceport is that they rush to that tech but then has to go way back to try to catch up.
Is it also possible they change victory goal often? I sometimes see them go for what may be domination or culture and then get distracted and try to win a religious victory even when that is a very hard victory to win?
Scotland get very high science per turn in many of my games so I am not surprised to see then there.
I was thinking that the reason it takes AI so long to win after Spaceport is that they rush to that tech but then has to go way back to try to catch up.
Is it also possible they change victory goal often? I sometimes see them go for what may be domination or culture and then get distracted and try to win a religious victory even when that is a very hard victory to win?
It's speculation on my part as to what victory type an AI is going for, but there are a couple of things that I view as possibly being an indicator of the AI's objectives:
an AI that sends a wave of Apostles/Missionaries into my territory I typically assume is going for a Religious victory; they tend to be #1 or #2 (sometimes #3) in terms of total civs converted, and they tend to be late to build a Spaceport (though that may simply be because of the diversion of resources into Holy Sites)
an AI that pesters me for Great Works I typically assume to be going for a Cultural victory (though they may also simply be the AIs with available Great Work slots); they tend to be middle of the pack in building Spaceports; mind you, the one Cultural victory I observed, by Teddy, he wasn't looking for Great Works and seemed to be doggedly trying for a Space Race victory (and may have won it, too, as he was neck-and-neck with two other civs)
if an AI does neither of those things and is one of the first 3 to build a Spaceport, I assume they're focused on Science victories
To be perfectly honest, though, just from observations, it seems more like the AI is trying for all victory types at all times, and just advances faster on some tracks than others. I don't believe that's true, as I understand there's some resource allocation mechanism based on victory type and each AI chooses one, but sitting back and just watching the AI, I haven't been able to identify any compelling "tells" that suggest an attempt for one victory over another.
280 is definitely earlier then I've seen in any of my games. I once saw China win around turn 290. I would expect Korea to push early SV but they do surprisingly poorly in my games when I've left them alone. I agree that it's often difficult to tell what victory they are going for (if any) - there is definitely plenty of room for improvement there. Sumeria seems to do consistently the best which is not surprising.
If they flip back and forth, that would explain why it seems like each AI is going for both a science and cultural victory.
One area of gross inefficiency on the part of the AI is building Spaceports long after they've already lost the space race. It would be nice if at some point they could recognize that they'll just never catch up to the leaders in that area and devote the resources that would otherwise have gone into a Spaceport into something - anything - else.
My ability to keep track of things like notifications to victory type changes is hampered by my attempting not to cultivate good relationships with the AI. Since I want to see how much they'll interfere with you in the absence of proactive diplomacy, I'm not sending embassies, etc. to build up the visibility necessary to get higher level messages. I suppose I could start sending spies as Listening Posts to improve my intel without improving relationships. I may start doing so.
Test Game 11
Me: Tamar
AI: Alexander, Catherine, Gilgamesh, Lautaro, Montezuma, Qin, Victoria
Game Seed: -1453610382
Map Seed: -1453610381
AI Victory Achieved: T319 Science
AI Aggressiveness Impact: 22 over 5 events (War Events: 2, Aggressive Spy Events: 3; Impact by Era Ancient: 2, Classical: 0, Medieval: 0, Renaissance: 8, Industrial: 0, Modern: 0, Atomic: 12, Information: 0)
Test Game Summary
Starting position: Excellent. River, mountains, lots of forest, some hills, three resources for improving (rice, stone, horses), and bonus culture nearby from the Matterhorn. Oddly, though, no luxuries initially in sight.
Deviations from plan: Nothing significant
Ages: Ancient Era ended T49, Classical Normal Age ended T89, Medieval Normal Age ended T129, Renaissance Normal Age ended T169, Industrial Golden Age ended T209, Modern Normal Age ended T249, Atomic Normal Age ended T289, Information Normal Age
Barbarians: T5 Scout finds my capital (T10 killed by Qin's Warrior), T26 Scout finds my capital but nothing comes if it, T32 Scout finds my third city (T35 4 Warriors 2 Slingers attack and pillage a pasture, T60 2 Warriors 2 Archers attack, T67 Camp cleared), T90 Scout finds my third city (killed by Preslav), T144 Camp and Scout spawn near my third city (T146 Camp cleared).
Neighbours: T10 Qin (our Warriors meet, to my south), T82 (her boat?, further south than Qin), T98 Montezuma (his boat?, other continent), T133 Alexander (my Galley, other continent), T179 Catherine (my Galley, other continent), T179 Lautaro (my Galley, other continent), T180 Gilgamesh (my Galley, other continent)
Great People Recruited by me: T137 Giovanni De Medici, T168 Dmitri Mendeleev, T234 Mary Leakey, T261 Grace Hopper, T274 Jamseth Tata (left unused), T296 Stephanie Kwolek, T298 Vincent Van Gogh, T309 Karel Capek
City State deaths: T21, T24, T40, T44, T60, T194 (Antanarivo by Victoria), T208 (Kabul by Victoria), T261 (Geneva by Victoria), T286 (La Venta by Alexander, T292 liberated by Gilgamesh) [survive: La Venta, Preslav, Antioch, Muscat (my tributory)]
Civ deaths: T232 Catherine (by Gilgamesh)
Emergencies: 2, both failed
Wonders by me: none
Wonders by AI: T34 Hanging Gardens, T40 Temple of Artemis, T41 Stonehenge, T58 Oracle (Qin), T59 Great Library (Qin), T62 Pyramids, T68 Jebel Barkal, T80 Apadana, T90 Petra, T91 Mahabodhi Temple, T100 Chichen Itza (Qin), T113 Kilwa Kisiwani, T115 Kotoku-In (Montezuma), T125 Great Lighthouse (Qin), T126 Colossus, T130 Alhambra, T141 Great Zimbabwe (Qin), T142 Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (Alexander), T145 Hagia Sophia (Alexander), T149 Potala Palace, T156 Huey Teocalli (Alexander), T157 Angkor Wat, T159 Taj Mahal (Victoria), T161 Oxford (Victoria), T172 Ruhr Valley, T179 Big Ben (Qin), T187 Terracotta Army (Qin), T191 Forbidden City (Victoria), T195 Statue of Liberty (Lautaro), T201 Casa de Contratacion (Qin), T203 St. Basil's (Lautaro), T208 Colosseum (Alexander), T225 Hermitage (Victoria), T236 Cristo Redentor (Victoria), T239 Broadway (Qin), T247 Sydney Opera House (Lautaro), T257 Venetian Arsenal (Victoria), T270 Eiffel Tower (Gilgamesh), T280 Estadio do Maracana (Gilgamesh), T287 Mont St Michel (Montezuma)
AI Victory Review
T319 Science Victory Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh (26 cities, built a Spaceport T232, finished the second stage T265, and reached one step away T318, the turn before winning. Victoria (21 cities) built a Spaceport T240, finished the second stage T268, and was three steps from finishing at game end, having researched all required techs but not finished any components. Alexander (11 cities) built a Spaceport T275, finished the second stage T297, and was four steps away at game end, having researched and launched the Mars Habitation, but not having researched the other techs. Qin (14 cities) built a Spaceport T283, finished the second stage T303, and was four steps away at game end, having researched two of the three Mars techs. Lautaro (6 cities) had researched Rocketry but never built a Spaceport. Montezuma (12 cities) never researched Rocketry.
Culture was a tight race up until T240, with Lautaro and Victoria leading and Montezuma, Qin, and Gilgamesh close behind. Then Gilgamesh, and to a lesser degree Qin, started to pull away. At game end, Gligamesh was at 164/459, Qin was 156/716, and Lautaro was 156/716, with Victoria well back in foreign tourists but third in domestic tourists at 352. Here were the observed tourists needed to win a cultural victory at various times: T160 96 (83 was next highest total), T180 115 (113), T200 147 (134), T220 179 (165), T240 222 (207), T260 276 (271), T280 452 (327), T300 567 (367)
Gilgamesh held Catherine's original capital.
Montezuma converted 5/7 cvs. Discussed more below under Game Observations.
AI Aggressive Actions
Spoiler:
T41 Qin Surprise War: Low Impact
4 Warriors, 1 Heavy Chariot, 1 Slinger attack by unwalled second city. I have Warriors and Slingers. T45 I upgrade to Archers. T46 Qin brings up 1 Warrior, 1 Spearman, 3 Heavy Chariots, 1 Slinger as reinforcements. T53 my city gets walls up. T54 Qin brings up 1 Warrior, 2 Heavy Chariots, 1 Archer as reinforcements. I lose 2 Warriors. T54 Qin offers 8 + 6/t gold for peace (refused as his unit is occupying a tile I want to settle). T57 Qin offers 26/t gold for peace (accepted).
T134 Qin Surprise War: High Impact
A friendly Qin launches 2 Musketmen, 2 Knights, 2 Bombards against my walled city. I have Crossbowmen, Horsemen, 1 Spearman, and Warriors. T135 a half dead Bombard takes down my city walls in one attack. T136 I buy a Khesur, Qin takes my city, triggering an Emergency which only I join, and Qin's Frigate attacks my western coastal city (I have 1 Galley on defence). T137 I upgrade the Spearman to a Pikeman and upgrade the Warriors to Swordsmen (using Iron from my new tributory Muscat). Same turn 2 Frigates of Qin's appear on the eastern coast and destroy my Crossbowman fleeing the captured city. T138 I purchase a Knight as Qin brings up 2 Knights, 1 Pike & Shot as reinforcements and presses on towards my capital. T139 Qin kills a Horseman. T140 Qin kills another Horseman and his 2 eastern Frigates are joined by 2 more Frigates and a Careval and attack a walled coastal city, taking the walls down in one turn. T141 Qin's western Frigate sinks my Galley while his eastern Frigates destroy a Swordsman, but don't take the vulnerable city. T142 I try to upgrade my surviving Swordsmen to Musketmen, only to discover Qin has captured one of my two sources of Niter and I'd previously traded away my other source. I'll just check the trade report to find out how long that deal will last - just kidding, I'm playing with the base UI, and there's no such report, so I've no idea how long I need to wait for my Niter deal to expire. So, I decide I'll try recapturing my city with Knigths, instead; I start buying them as my gold allows. T142 Qin should have taken my eastern coastel city, but his Caravel attacked before his 4 Frigates eliminated the city's health; same turn, his Knight plunders a trade route. T143 his eastern flotilla sails away from my health-less coastal city. T144 Qin offers 3 + 34/t gold for peace (refused). T146 Qin sends an army against my tributory, Muscat, consisting of 2 Musketmen, 1 Knight, 2 Bombards. I can't afford to lose Muscat as I still don't have my Niter back and Muscat is my sole source of Iron, so I suicide a Knight taking out one of the Bombards. T147 I'm able to repair the walls of both my eastern and western cities. Same turn, Qin offers 48/t gold for peace (refused), then his eastern flotilla reappears, now off my western coastal city having passed from coast to coast via the northen passage. T148 Qin pillages another trade route. T150 Qin offers 93/t gold for peace (refused). T150 Qin's frigates have the walls down on my western coastal city, but he has no melee ships to capture it. T151 Qin plunders a third trade route. T152 a new flotilla of 2 Frigates attacks my eastern coastal city. T153 Qin offers 115/t gold for peace (refused). T154 I recover my city, restoring access to Nitre which I use to upgrade a Swordsman to a Musketman. T156 Qin offers 86/t gold for peace (accepted). Debrief: A quick and efficient attack against my border city overwhelmed the local defences before my central reserves could reinforce them. Qin's subsequent attacks against my capital and Muscat were half-hearted and more easily defended. His naval superiority should have cost me two cities, but the aggressiveness shown by land units in taking cities was not evident in the naval units. He caused enough trouble on enough different fronts, however, to significantly delay my counter attack to re-capture my city.
T273 Spy Disrupts Spaceport: High Impact
Took Spaceport offline for 11 turns.
T285 Spy Sabotages Industrial Zone: Modest Impact
Took out the Industrial Zone in my capital/Spaceport city.
T310 Spy Recruits Partisans: No Impact
Two Modern Armour chase a Builder and Archeologist around, then are destroyed.
Game Observations
Montezuma had a real shot at a religious victory this game. By T180 he had converted converted 4/8, and by T220 he was up to 5/8, including all but 1 civ on the other continent from the one he started on. When Gilgamesh eliminated Catherine, that left Montezuma wih 5/7, missing only Victoria (of whom he had only converted one of her cities), and his initial starting neighbour Alexander. By T240 Montezuma had converted 5 of Alexander's then 11 cities, but this was as close as Montezuma got. By game end all of Alexander's cities were back to Alexander's religion and Montezuma's religion was still dominant in only 1 of Victoria's cities.
Although he won a Science Victory, Gilgamest - and everyone else - seemed to be going for a Culture victory. At least they were all very persistent in asking for my Great Works.
Qin's T134 attack was the best executed AI invasion I've observed in a while. Although there were some clear inefficiencies - especially the failure to capture my coastal cities, once simply because the melee ship attacked before the ranged ship - it suggested to me that the AI's not that far away from being dangerous with late game warfare.
Qin's T134 attack was the best executed AI invasion I've observed in a while. Although there were some clear inefficiencies - especially the failure to capture my coastal cities, once simply because the melee ship attacked before the ranged ship - it suggested to me that the AI's not that far away from being dangerous with late game warfare.
@Trav'ling Canuck do you remember in your test games how many times the AI chose the Goddess of the Harvest pantheon, which is in my opinion easily the best?
@Trav'ling Canuck do you remember in your test games how many times the AI chose the Goddess of the Harvest pantheon, which is in my opinion easily the best?
Almost always and early, but I can't give you precise figures. I show the timing of when I get my pantheon each game, and it's all over the place since I don't run God King so my Faith yield is based solely on the map. I can only recall a few times having the option to take Goddess of the Harvest, and one of those was when I got the first pantheon. I think that was also the only game when I've seen Earth Goddess available, and one of only a few when God of the Forge was available (although the later may have been available a bit more often than I remember, since I wouldn't have specifically been looking for God of the Forge if I got a late pantheon). All of the others seem to be regularly available, i.e. I haven't noticed a particular pattern to any of them usually being taken .
So, my sense is that Earth Goddess, Goddess of the Harvest, and God of the Forge are the three pantheons most likely to be taken first by the Deity AI, roughly in that order.
I might be able to piece together what religious pantheons / beliefs the AI took in my test games (though not in which order). Not all of them, as I didn't track it while the game was in progress, but some of them where I haven't overwritten a late game save file I could extract that data from. I'll see if I can pull that together later today or tomorrow.
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