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AI waging early war = scripted event

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Sascha77, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. avl8

    avl8 Prince

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    I think there are no scripted events in the game right now.

    Its just a new players thing.
    People do not know about secret agendas, do not use it and do not know how to.

    I play Catherine emperor difficulty several games and they do not declare on me. Reason is you know thy secret agenda from the get go and can play around it. Actually you need to play around your closest neighbour, maybe 2 closest neighbours. Others cant declare a do a thing at all.

    And the best way to uncover agendas for other leaders is to gift them 25g on the first meeting.
    Thats +1 level of access.
    Then you can send a caravan to their city. Thats +1 level of access, uncovers secret agenda.
    Then you play around it and get just a mediocre units to fight barbarians.
    Usually you wont need more forces until industrial if you properly play around agendas.

    And using secret agendas is a whole new dimensions most people havent uncover yet. Its fun!
     
    Nefelia and narmox like this.
  2. JellyRev

    JellyRev Chieftain

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    I dont think it is scripted. I think the calculations are just on the risk taking side instead of risk averse. ai is crushing the other ai early game all the time.
    The best way in my games is to quickly out miltech them. Typically a line to crossbow and then a line to modern inf, and then getting musketeer/niter done to upgrade any swordsman to modern inf. Then running up to artillery.
     
  3. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    AI didn't attack me on my current immortal game. You just need to build a military.

    They thought about it though as Rome kept asking for open borders and marched units up to my borders. Went to war with Greece instead.
     
  4. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

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    There's no realistic way to make an AI like you in the first 30 turns. You have to be lucky just to have the AI be merely neutral rather than unfriendly. Combine that with the fact that Deity AIs starts with 5 warriors, and so you will always have the weakest military, and you get near-certain DOWs.

    I don't mind the violent chaos of the early game though, I think it's fun. If the AI was better at using its units it would be a pretty awesome and tense way to kick off the game, before things become more civilized in later eras.
     
  5. Agent Zero Range

    Agent Zero Range Chieftain

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    i have had plenty of games with no early DOW it seems to be a case of if they know where your capital is and do they totally outclass you in military power. So on higher difficulties they will wardec you on turn 5 if they can because one no penalties for warmongering and 2 they will have a bigger military.

    I had one game with Montezuma 10 hexs from my capital we met on tun 3 but he never explored towards me and I refused to give him hospitality. eventually he DOW a city state that was close to him and me. Once he killed that he spotted my capital and DOW me too but I was ready for him by then.
     
  6. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

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    My second playthrough, no one DOWed me yet. I am at 850 AD.
     
  7. bladex

    bladex Emperor

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    it depends on your start position if you start right next to the AI like i did have in my current game (have them to the left and right of me) they are going to attack you. so get that army ready to push them back (like i did)
    i was literally surprise attacked in the 1st 20 turns on KING. all i had were archers and swordman to push them back...and it worked.

    it has NOTHING to do with scripted events if the AI see you vulnerable they WILL take advantage of it.
     
  8. avl8

    avl8 Prince

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  9. Sascha77

    Sascha77 Prince

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    Yeah, I was thinking that myself. The AI's calculations might simply make an early war highly probable even if there's no point to it either diplomatically and/or strategically. However: Even if this is (technically) not a scripted event, it sure comes across as one from where I'm sitting. Hence, the calculations/algorithms need to be changed/tweaked. Besides: Unless we're splitting hairs, having AI-calculations that make an event nearly unavoidable is pretty much the same as having a *truly* scripted event.

    But that's just the thing: In all my cases of getting the early DOW, I wasn't vulnerable and I always kicked the AI's ass. Reading some of the comments in this thread, this seems exactly what other players are experiencing - going as far as welcoming the early war because it'll give them a chance to gain a few cities.

    Plus it's especially silly on certain maps or in certain geographical situations, when someone like Vicky in my example who is on the other side of the world suddenly decides to declare war when there's no way she could win or even sustain a war effort at the distance our two empires are from each other.

    And, again, let's not forget my diplomatic situation here. Someone who is my declared friend, who is *not* a lunatic like Monty and who has double digit "approval" towards me declaring war out of the blue doesn't feel like consistent behavior.

    S.
     
  10. SeBounart

    SeBounart Chieftain

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    That leads me to think that we actually are beta testers of Civ 6 :kappa:
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It is not scripted.

    last night I settled next to Spain, Rome and Norway as England.
    I built tall not wide, did not take up a religeon and built a single ship.

    I made it to renaissance peacefully but then Spain attacked a city state of mine and took it over.
    Another city state of mine started attacking it and I sent a couple of archers to help after denunciation time (after Rome denounced).
    The city state took it over with my help and razed it.
    The city state with the help of my 2 archers then took out every other city of Spain's and raised it apart form the capital. At that stage they decided to go home so I sued for peace and then wham, went wide big time with 20 cities in no time.

    Thanks to Admirals I had a tiny super strong fleet and with 20 ports and lighthouses I was stupidly rich, way ahead in science, got bored and gave up.

    1 tiny "helping a city state" war started by me just to see what happened was all the fighting I did.

    Very likely on higher levels the diplomacy gets harder, makes perfect sense... but until war broke out I was friends with Rome and Norway and Spain was not fussed as I had no religeon.
     
  12. Shadeseraph

    Shadeseraph Chieftain

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    I've had this happen to me a couple times. Usually he had a decent army (I mean, roughly 6 to 8 units to my 2) but a barb encampent found the AI's cities and threw wave after wave of horsemen and horse archers at them, grinding down their army into smithereens, while I myself had been growing an army to defend myself. By the end, our positions are reversed without having faced him in battle, which is when the IA sues for battle.

    That said, and regarding the OT, I don't really agree - I haven't played that many games (only 80 hours or so in the game) but while most games I was DoWed early on, there were also enough cases of not being DoWed in the full game, even accounting for games where I went full pacifist, playing on Emperor for the most part (I still had a decent army to face Barbs).
     
  13. Aek1924

    Aek1924 Chieftain

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    I just had two unmet civs declare war on me. WTF? I thought it was a glitch at first. Instead of the declaring leader, my own leader screen appears as if I'm DOWing myself LOL. I don't understand this behaviour.
     
  14. Sascha77

    Sascha77 Prince

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    Yup. Like I said: I had city-stats I hadn't met declare on me. I was instantly at war with civs when I discovered them (meaning they probably declared on me when they hadn't even met me yet), etc. I have a suspicion that those "Japan declaring war on Japan"-animations are what happens when an unmet civ declares on you.

    S.
     
  15. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    In my few playthroughs, I actually haven't suffered a lot of those random DoW's yet. I have gotten DoW'ed, but by well-prepared AI. In my last game, America DoW'd me in classical era (after gobling up some city states - so much for him being peacekeaper on his own continent) and came with a quite sizable army of heavy chariots, which was really rather frightening. Here's a screenshot after about 10 turns of war where I've been constantly pumping out Phalanxes to stabilize the front, and this was more or less the turning point where I started to get the upper hand.



    From what I've found so far, you need to build up your military early if you want to keep the AI from DoW'ing you. If you only stick to your starting warrior and an archer, chances are AI will see an opportunity and DoW you. It might not be the wisest decision of the AI in terms of long-term results, but I think it IS how it should be in terms of game design (unless you are declared friends). Civ5BnW AI was notoriously passive, hardly ever DoW'ing you inspite of you completely neglecting military, and that did not make for a better game imo.
     
  16. caiman0815

    caiman0815 Chieftain

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    Playing currently with kongo at emperor diff and no one dowed me so far, and I'm at turn 200 (epic). Even have one ally and two more friends. But have to mention that my military score is second to germany (and always has been). germany is really angry with me for several reasons, like forward settling, moving troops around their border, different religion and agenda, but he never declared war. He would not have any chance despite his awesome military power because I have a really fortified border (citys with walls, encampments, rivers, hills)
     
  17. JustMormegil

    JustMormegil Chieftain

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    If you want to be safer from early rush - Do not accept delegations from AI early game. It seems like AI has map visibility model and won't attack you if doesn't know where you are. Also watch if AI moves his scout to your borders - then he actually knows where you are and can launch invasion. These rules worked fine in my games.
     
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  18. Sascha77

    Sascha77 Prince

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    Started a new game as Trajan on Epic, King and standard-sized continents map.

    Frederick is my next-door neighbor and I thought he'd give me the early aggro in my game. But no: He's pretty docile.

    Next, I met Monty through a unit-encounter. His capital is all the way in the south of my continent (near the S-pole) while Rome is up on the northern edge of the map (near the N-pole).

    A couple of turns after I met Monty, I discovered Congo who are sitting just north of Monty's empire, so they're also pretty damn far from me.

    Sure enough, one turn after I meet Congo, both Monty and Congo declare war on me. That was on turn 70 (on epic). Since I expected early aggro, I had built three warriors and two archers (plus a scout) at that point, so I wouldn't call myself a squishy target. Besides: Neither of the two ever even moved towards my lands - I have three cities by now and had to expand south-ish towards Frederick, since I'm blocked by three CS' to my east. I had put two warriors and two archers in front of my southern borders, expecting some sort of invasion to come up that way, but.. nothing. After a few turns, I could peace out with both of them and that was that - for now.. :D

    The funny thing is that the only person who'd have a reason to be angry is Frederick (since I dared to "auto-fulfill" some CS-quests via tech-boosts).

    And speaking of silly AI-leader dislikes: Congo gave me the "you're not converting my cities"-crap *2 turns* after I had founded my religion. I haven't even had time to build a temple, let alone to recruit missionaries or send them down to him (he's probably 10 to 15 missionary-movement-turns away from me).


    S.
     
  19. Siesta Guru

    Siesta Guru Prince

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    As an AI modder, it is not scripted. It will send batches of troops over along with a war declaration under certain conditions. And those conditions involve that it thinks it has a good chance of winning.What you are probably seeing is that the AI consistently considers you a targt it can easily win against, probably because you have very few troops compared to it.
     
  20. Sascha77

    Sascha77 Prince

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    Doesn't seem like that to me.

    Like I stated in the post above yours: I have a pretty good military in my current game, plus how could an AI that hasn't even met me yet send troops over with a DOW - especially when they're half a world away from any of my cities? If your theory were true, Congo would've had to decide to declare on me/send troops *well before* we had even met.

    But even Monty hadn't known me for that long when he declared. And when we met, my military was already as strong as it was on the turn of the DOW. Plus (like I said above), during the war, none of those guys even moved towards my lands. They declared, I waited, and they were willing to make peace during the first term peace negotiations became an option.


    S.
     

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