Air & Water Pollution

[Hydromancerx]

Around modern times many of my cities reached around 1400 of air pollution after I forgot to check for a while. I built tons of parc rangers/ecologists then to reduce it everywhere below 900 which was a pita. I never observed a Global Warming in the meantime but I also might have overlooked it. It definitely didn´t happen often.

Can you add a later building that reduces pollution by something like 50% or add that to an existing building? I wouldn´t mind if it is expensive, just would save me so much play time for things that would be more fun...

Yes I do plan to make some modern and trans-human era buildings that help counter pollution.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Re-posting this here in case the other thread gets burred.

Anti-Pollution Building
- Carbon Exchange
- Ecoscraper
- Green Belts (possibly could be an Ordinance)
- Artificial Tree Farm (Article)

Ok here is a list of all the building and wonders that I can recall that reduce either air and/or water pollution.

Prehistoric
- None
Ancient
- Palace Garden = -5 Air Poluttion
- Hanging Gardens [WW] = -5 Air Pollution
Classical
- Grove = -5 Air Pollution
- Sewers = -5 Water Pollution
- Street Cleaner = -1 Air Pollution and -1 Water Pollution
Medieval
- Tree Nursery = -5 Air Pollution
- Artesian Well = -10 Water Pollution
- Castle Garden = -5 Air Pollution
Renaissance
- Arboretum = -5 Air Pollution
- Botanical Garden [NW] = -5 Air Pollution
Industrial
- State Park = -50 Air Pollution and -50 Water Pollution
- Coastal Preserve = -25 Air Pollution and -50 Water Pollution
- National Park [NW] = -100 Air Pollution and -100 Water Pollution
- Water Treatment Plant = -100 Water Pollution
- City Park = -5 Air Pollution
- Ordinance (Carpool) = -50 Air Pollution
- Public Transportation = -25 Air Pollution
Modern
- None
Trans-Human
- Agroforest = -10 Air Pollution and -10 Water Pollution
Galactic
- Paradise Garden = (Plan to Add Anti-Pollution to)

So wow I am shocked that Modern has nothing yet Industrial has a TON! Which means by the time you reached modern Era and assuming you have all the techs and we don't count replaced, obsolete, wonders or palace or coastal then ...

- Street Cleaner = -1 Air Pollution
- Tree Nursery = -5 Air Pollution
- Arboretum = -5 Air Pollution
- State Park = -50 Air Pollution
- City Park = -5 Air Pollution
- Ordinance (Carpool) = -50 Air Pollution
- Public Transportation = -25 Air Pollution
- Total = - 141 Air Pollution

- Sewers = -5 Water Pollution
- Street Cleaner = -1 Water Pollution
- Artesian Well = -10 Water Pollution
- State Park = -50 Water Pollution
- Water Treatment Plant = -100 Water Pollution
- Total = - 166 Water Pollution

Note that if it was coastal, palace and had all anti-pollution wonders ...

- Sub Total = -141 Air Pollution
- Palace Garden = -5 Air Poluttion
- Hanging Gardens [WW] = -5 Air Pollution
- Botanical Garden [NW] = -5 Air Pollution
- Coastal Preserve = -25 Air Pollution
- National Park [NW] = -100 Air Pollution
- Total = -281 Air Pollution

- Sub Total = - 166 Water Pollution
- Coastal Preserve = -25 Water Pollution
- National Park [NW] = -100 Water Pollution
- Total = -291 Water Pollution

But yeah there is just so many other buildings that cause both types of pollution I can see where even if you built them all you still would struggle.

 

[ls612]

As I stated in the other thread I'd personally like to see an improvement like a Tree Nursery or something (we already have one named that, so it would need a better name) which gives something like +2 and -3 Air Pollution. That would be a decent way to get a handle on the pollution in the Industrial Era for now.

 

[TowerWizard]

@HydromancerX
Ok, I understand this a bit more now. Correct me if I am wrong. You add all bonuses and maluses from pollution buildings and this is the "constant building sources" detailed in the tool-tip. This means that the value given by pollution is generated only from the city tile?

Does that also mean that if my city have a Air pollution value of 200 and all the tiles surrounding it have on average -200 air pollution, then 200 is just peachy and no problem at all? Only if the city generates more than around 4000 pollution does this begin to out-weigh the contribution from the surrounding 20 tiles? What about tiles not within the fat cross? How does their contribution factor in? Or is it just the city tiles that are important with regards to global warming?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Not entirely true. While most pollution comes from the city population and buildings there are some improvements that give pollution such as Farms give like 1 water pollution and Factories give some air pollution. In addition tar pits and volcanoes give pollution.

Property dispipation is hard to explain. Both Pollution and Crime work similarly in that they dissipate and can spread to neighboring tiles. Like Town Watchemen who can reduce crime on a tile Park Rangers and Ecologists can reduce Air and Water Pollution on the tile they are standing on as well as neighboring tiles.

For more info on properties you should ask in the property thread.

 

[JosEPh_II]

As was asked in the other thread, Street Cleaner is a bit (actually a whole lot) underpowered. Is this going to be addressed or is there some future city cleaner to help do the street cleaner's job better?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

How much do you think they should give?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well 1 and 1 is weak to say the least. You have many other units and buildings that do multiples of 5 or 10.

What are your bases for Pollution giving "things"? All most all are 5 or it's multiple. We still have smokehouses giving 20? Or was that reduced finally to 10? Which is Still too large for a smokehouse. You would need Hundreds of them to produce any measurable pollution. But I digress. The discussion is over Street cleaner.

I'm not sure what to tell you they should be, cause someone will disagree with what I propose and it will get changed back again. But even 2 and 2 is better than 1 and 1 now isn't it?

By the way have you ever seen a smokehouse in operation? Or it's size? It would need to be the size of your local Wal-Mart to generate the pollution you have attributed to it.

JosEPh

 

[teakbois]

Its not just the 1 and 1, its got a pretty big hammer cost.

I think the concept of a street cleaner would work better as a specialist anyway. Could give a - to both pollutions and disease, with a slight boost to and/or because a cleaner, healthier city would be more productive/attractive to shoppers.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well 1 and 1 is weak to say the least. You have many other units and buildings that do multiples of 5 or 10.

What are your bases for Pollution giving "things"? All most all are 5 or it's multiple. We still have smokehouses giving 20? Or was that reduced finally to 10? Which is Still too large for a smokehouse. You would need Hundreds of them to produce any measurable pollution. But I digress. The discussion is over Street cleaner.

I'm not sure what to tell you they should be, cause someone will disagree with what I propose and it will get changed back again. But even 2 and 2 is better than 1 and 1 now isn't it?

By the way have you ever seen a smokehouse in operation? Or it's size? It would need to be the size of your local Wal-Mart to generate the pollution you have attributed to it.

JosEPh

Well its hard to judge. Generally the buildings in the cities represent more than one building. Basically the presence of that type of building.

I am open to tweaking polluting and flammability generating buildings too. And as for people arguing with you, has that ever stopped you and I from posting our opinions?

In general my base line is a Factory is 5 Air Pollution and 5 Flammability.

I have tried to account for both open flames, flammable materials, explosive materials and hazardous materials (mainly for water pollution).

I don't feel like looking them all up but if you have some major offenders you think should be readjusted let me know.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So Street Cleaner to 2 and 2 for starter?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

Pushed to the SVN.

 

[LumenAngel]

Just a little thing about all Polluton building.
Theu nearly all have the same effect : Big unhappiness, big unhealthiness, the bigger have some food malus.

Some ideas to change this :
- Pollution (Acid rains) trigger Acid Rains event, placing a pollution/storm for X turns on a case in city radius (reduce food, commerce and production on case, deal dmg to units)
- Pollution (Blackened Sky) replacee all solar plants and the like
- Polluton (xxx smog) increase disease
- Pollution (xxx Coastal Pollution) decrease commerce on coast title
- Pollution (xxx River Pollution) decrease commerce on river title
- Pollution (Toxic atmosphere) increase deasease and reduce food on all case (not only water case). It increase chance of revolution too beecause 950 is really too much
- Pollution (Toxic hydrosphere) increase deasease and reduce food on all case (not only water case). It increase chance of revolution too beecause 950 is really too much

With this, I think we will have to care a little more about pollution in Industrial and Modern Era.


And a new pollution idea :
- Pollution (Natural Wondrer Waste), req 800 air pollution and a naturl wonder iin city vicenity. +2 unhappy, replace all Wonder of Nature building for land Natural Wonder
- Pollution (Water Natural Wondrer Waste), req 800 water pollution and a naturl wonder iin city vicenity. +2 unhappy, replace all Wonder of Nature building for water Natural Wonder

 

[Hydromancerx]

@LumenAngel

Events are beyond my skills so it would have to be Ori or SO to do stuff like a Pollution storm.

 

[LumenAngel]

Another idea, link to the other one.
But it would need a new tag for building : "Need <Property> below <number>"

Because, I dont know you, but a marina or a beach where water pollution is 1200... Not for me.
With so much pollution, I think even some fishing building cant work : all fishes are dead... So these building would have a req "Water pollution below XXX".
Same with Air pollution and aeroport or solar panel. If there are a sky black from pollution, they cant work. If the pollution is too much, maybe even farm will be impossible.

Best housing for rich people can have both : only poors want to live in a city where pollution will kill them. Maybe same with some tourism buildings

 

[Hydromancerx]

@LumenAngel

Well some has already been done with -food from sea plots and buildings replacing buildings. I suppose we could always add a property or new building that either replaces or bans a resource such a s fish from a city when the pollution is really bad.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@LumenAngel

Well some has already been done with -food from sea plots and buildings replacing buildings. I suppose we could always add a property or new building that either replaces or bans a resource such a s fish from a city when the pollution is really bad.

Except that also stops them from having fish from another city where there is no pollution!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Except that also stops them from having fish from another city where there is no pollution!

Oh that's true. Guess the replacing of building would have to do.

Note that Blackened Skies currently replaced all 4 solar type of Power Plants.

I suppose we could have an equivalent for the ocean.

EDIT:

One question. If I have 3 buildings A, B and C. And have B replace A and then C replace B, will C replace A? Or once C replaces B then A will be not replaced anymore?

The reason I ask is I wonder if I could have say a Resource Building replaced by a Pollution and then later on have some sort of hi-tech solution to cancel out the pollution but not replace the Resource Building.

Do you know if this is possible if I just don't tell C to replace A?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

EDIT:

One question. If I have 3 buildings A, B and C. And have B replace A and then C replace B, will C replace A? Or once C replaces B then A will be not replaced anymore?

The reason I ask is I wonder if I could have say a Resource Building replaced by a Pollution and then later on have some sort of hi-tech solution to cancel out the pollution but not replace the Resource Building.

Do you know if this is possible if I just don't tell C to replace A?

C will only replace A if you say it does on A. That is why you have to list all upgrade buildings not just the first.

IE you tell A that C replaces it not tell C that it replaces A.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Great! Thanks for confirming my suspicions.