AIs and the Art of War
- Thread starter Arkenor
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I lost that 2nd city twice before I could re-establish it.
@raxxo2222, 2Tofffer90,
Why did we take away the ability to capture workers, especially Barb Workers at the end of the Preh and start of the Ancient era? It escaped me why this was done? The Barbs got to workers while I was still 3-4 techs away from Sed Life myself. Yet I can not capture any of them. It just kills them. Tried dogs, hunters, bear rider, atlatl, etc what gives???
@raxxo2222, 2Tofffer90,
Why did we take away the ability to capture workers, especially Barb Workers at the end of the Preh and start of the Ancient era? It escaped me why this was done? The Barbs got to workers while I was still 3-4 techs away from Sed Life myself. Yet I can not capture any of them. It just kills them. Tried dogs, hunters, bear rider, atlatl, etc what gives???
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Apparently there is a bug in the ability to capture helpless units.
SO brought it up recently as well.
Last edited:
It must be bug.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
FYI I could capture barb gatherers. But barb workers is a kill only. Maybe related to being barb? 
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
hmm... that's scary. Suggests the bug is REALLY complicated.FYI I could capture barb gatherers. But barb workers is a kill only. Maybe related to being barb?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Here is another twist. After this afternoon's update when I capture a barb worker I get a Military Captive in Early Ancient era. At least I'm getting a captive now. Just not a captive worker.
Upload save where you are about to conquer those units.Here is another twist. After this afternoon's update when I capture a barb worker I get a Military Captive in Early Ancient era. At least I'm getting a captive now. Just not a captive worker.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That actually makes a little sense. From an 'understanding the bug' perspective.Here is another twist. After this afternoon's update when I capture a barb worker I get a Military Captive in Early Ancient era. At least I'm getting a captive now. Just not a captive worker.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
There are 3 Camel Riders, a trained dog and a Hunter to the SW of my Empire and City of St.Paul that can attack 2 barb workers. They are running away from me now. Not so just yesterday.
EDIT: Unfortunately, if you attack them with either the Camel Riders or Trained Dog, then you get Nothing! smh Maybe because these are in a forested tile while all the others were in desert, salt flats or srub to the NW of St. Paul. They were insistent on making a road to the salt tile that ST. Paul has in it's fat X.
EDIT2: It's really hit and miss on whether I get a captive Military from a barb worker or nothing. But it weighs heavier on the nothing side. <shrug>
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I took a look into this and there are some very deep changed assumptions than I am used to being present in the movement sections of the rules. According to the old methods, the workers should never be able to enter combat to begin with because they are unable to defend the plot. The way it is now, if they are not selected as the best defender, they won't show up on the plot and being unattackable they won't allow the camel to even move into the plot. This is probably easily resolved by continuing to allow them to defend and adding some dedicated programming in the right order to define what happens when a 0 str unit is attacked, though I'm wondering if this means they'll now be soaking up bombardments and taking 'damage' from air attacks as well. This is a complex matter and I don't have a lot of time to resolve this.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I can show more screenshots of how I have to constantly fight these barbs while at the same time not lose too much ground (literally) to the 3 AI that share this continent! It won't be too long before I get to Bronze working and this is only a Monarch Difficulty game on Normal Game speed and 7 AI on a large C2C_World map. Some AI have a whole continent to themselves and are Not facing the Barbs like I am. Or not facing Any at all! If Barbs are in the game allowed thru the Game set up Options then ALL players should have to face them, again imhpo. It is how I would mod them.
Which brings up a point that I've chaffed over for years. I absolutely Hate it that the AI in all it's forms is Directed to target the Human player in all circumstances. Competition for land and resources should be equal for ALL in the game until you hit the last couple of Difficulty levels. 70% of the Barb cities on this continent are purposefully and directly next to my start position. The Byzantines caught some of it because they were the closest AI to me. Australia and Greece have had very little to NO barb hinderances.
One side note of importance, this particular game is Without Any Traits. Traits (in all their forms) do too much imhpo and screw many of the AI. While giving too much boost to others. Bleh!
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
<nvrmnd>
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
There is a known weakness in the AI that it doesn't create defensive stacks that can be moved to where attacks can be anticipated to arrive. It relies almost entirely on a modest defense in all cities and its city attack forces to go offensive if they have trained up enough to activate such stacks. Agile and reactive defenses is a weakness that can still be fairly easily overcome with a truly solid attack force and if you can break their spearhead city attack forces, they are pretty much at your mercy at that point.
I know all this but it will take years to fix it properly.
yes, hit his main stack with 10-15 artillery and it is easy to smash it
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Once I've finished with the unit reviews I'll be diving into improving the strategic side of the AI a lot. Til then, you're likely going to find their ability to command in war showing some glaring weaknesses if you're clever enough to reveal them.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@Trantor,
The Barb AI is definitely more aggressive and attack oriented than the regular Civ AI. I will concede that to you. IF the early Main AI was as aggressive as the Barb's are, then Human players would be wiped out on Difficulty levels as low as Prince.
Also as @raxxo2222 stated Start your next Game On Nightmare w/o using the Increasing Difficulty Option. Will be a totally different start. But I would say that you would probably figure out a way to survive. The players that play Deity and Nightmare are the exceptions and not the rule. If we designed the Mod for only those players...….we would lose 75% or more of our regular players. Advanced players Need to understand that. We Need a broad base of play to keep doing this. Otherwise, why bother?!
The Barb AI is definitely more aggressive and attack oriented than the regular Civ AI. I will concede that to you. IF the early Main AI was as aggressive as the Barb's are, then Human players would be wiped out on Difficulty levels as low as Prince.
Also as @raxxo2222 stated Start your next Game On Nightmare w/o using the Increasing Difficulty Option. Will be a totally different start. But I would say that you would probably figure out a way to survive. The players that play Deity and Nightmare are the exceptions and not the rule. If we designed the Mod for only those players...….we would lose 75% or more of our regular players. Advanced players Need to understand that. We Need a broad base of play to keep doing this. Otherwise, why bother?!
Similar threads
- Locked
