ALC Game 13: Mali/Mansa Musa

[BlueSoxSWJ]

Typically when I'm gunning for space race, I find it helpful to beeline rocketry, so I can get the Apollo program started in my capitol while I beeline something else (usually assembly line, plastics, or robotics). Then, as I enable things like factories, power plants, etc., I insert them into the queue and rush buy them, while building them elsewhere the slow way to get ready to churn out parts. We also saw recently how helpful the internet can be - I usually try to build it every time so I don't have to worry about diversions like flight, etc. even when I'm the tech leader.

 

[Sisiutil]

Typically when I'm gunning for space race, I find it helpful to beeline rocketry, so I can get the Apollo program started in my capitol while I beeline something else (usually assembly line, plastics, or robotics). Then, as I enable things like factories, power plants, etc., I insert them into the queue and rush buy them, while building them elsewhere the slow way to get ready to churn out parts. We also saw recently how helpful the internet can be - I usually try to build it every time so I don't have to worry about diversions like flight, etc. even when I'm the tech leader.

That's an interesting idea regarding the Internet. Usually I don't bother with it unless I absolutely need it (as I did in the Hannibal game). The reason is that I'm reluctant, when building the space ship, to tie up one of my best production cities with something that isn't directly related to it. And if you build it in a production-poor city, well, it would take so long as to be irrelevant.

In a large empire, I'd probably have a city I could spare for this task, and I'll consider it in other games; it does seem like a good way to grab non-essential late game techs like flight, medicine, and so on. In this game, however, I'm making do with 12 cities, so I don't know if I'll have one to spare for the Internet, especially if it's just for spare techs. I also don't know how useful it will be; I'm #2 in techs behind Huayna, and everyone else is trailing us, so how many techs known by 2 other civs (that aren't me) are there likely to be?

 

[pigswill]

Its unlikely that you'll stay number 2 in research once you get cottages developing. You'll need the spaceship techs regardless, everything else you may need you could probably trade for.

 

[patagonia]

Its unlikely that you'll stay number 2 in research once you get cottages developing. You'll need the spaceship techs regardless, everything else you may need you could probably trade for.

pigswill's right: you may be second in tech, but not for long.

Huayna will get biology soon and then his workers will start farming over towns

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

That's an interesting idea regarding the Internet. Usually I don't bother with it unless I absolutely need it (as I did in the Hannibal game). The reason is that I'm reluctant, when building the space ship, to tie up one of my best production cities with something that isn't directly related to it. And if you build it in a production-poor city, well, it would take so long as to be irrelevant.

In a large empire, I'd probably have a city I could spare for this task, and I'll consider it in other games; it does seem like a good way to grab non-essential late game techs like flight, medicine, and so on. In this game, however, I'm making do with 12 cities, so I don't know if I'll have one to spare for the Internet, especially if it's just for spare techs. I also don't know how useful it will be; I'm #2 in techs behind Huayna, and everyone else is trailing us, so how many techs known by 2 other civs (that aren't me) are there likely to be?

True about tying up a production city - though my usual tech path after rocketry is a beeline to plastics (for TGD), then fiberoptics, then beeline to Robotics (for Space Elevator). Thus, I usually have my 2nd or 3rd best production city pump out the internet (depending on which gets the TGD), since I'm usually just finishing up the Apollo Program in my number 1, and haven't teched up to any of the expensive parts yet. As for the free techs - the AI really likes Flight, and I hate researching it myself in a space race ... but it provides a very nice boost to the power rating and can keep you out of a last-minute war.

Even if you do just get it started in a slower production city, as long as you at least finish it before completing the last SS part, the free techs give your score a nice boost.

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 8: 1502 AD to 1691 AD

All good things must come to an end, and this round, sadly, witnessed the deterioration of my relationship with Isabella. Get your hankies out. A break-up is always rough, isn't it?

I wish I could say it was dramatic, but no, it was depressingly mundane. It started the usual way: one partner makes demands of the other that are unreasonable...

...and it slowly but surely deteriorated from there. She claimed she needed "her space" whatever the heck that means; I asked her and she mumbled something about "cultural boundaries" that I "just wouldn't understand".

Yeah, okay, I guess settling Michaelangelo in Gao was insensitive of me, and I apologized, but the damage was done. But then she pulled the rug out from under me: she gave up our shared religion, which was the whole basis for the relationship! I know, I know, she did it to me before, so I should have seen it coming. Hope springs eternal, I guess. It fell apart from there: separate bedrooms, a canceled Defensive Pact... you know the drill. Oh, I could have caved and given her Democracy, but hey, I've got my pride, y'know? Besides, the Statue of Liberty still wasn't complete in Djenne.

Somehow, I found the strength to soldier on. The sight of this guy appearing, against all odds, in my capital cheered me a little:

He's good company now that I'm all alone in the world. I'm keeping him around for now. I later got another Great Artist, who's hanging out in Gao for now. I was thinking of using him to help with Radio.

The late game resources started appearing in my territory, and that also helped ease the pain:

And then... well, let's just say I found comfort from an unexpected quarter.

I assure you it's strictly platonic. We're not gay! (NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!) It turns out Isabella was two-timing me with Mehmed here, so it's only natural that we kind of fell in together. She's a little ticked off at both of us now, but come on, she had that coming.

Still, I was playing it kind of cool with Mehmed; I had discovered I liked my new-found independence and didn't feel like rushing into anything like sharing an apartment or trading techs. Then he made me an offer I couldn't refuse:

Turns out his new-found but very temporary wealth came about because I beat him to this:

Now that I had free specialists and Corporation, it was time to do a massive civics change:

Free Speech to reinforce my cultural borders (take that, Isabella!) and reap the benefits of my cottages, Emancipation to make the new cottages grow (and punish any civ without Democracy--yeah, I'm lookin' at you, babe), Free Market for the trade routes, and Pacifism for more great people. As you can see, this allowed me to raise the science slider from 70% to 80% while staying in the black.

There's something about having money in the bank that just makes you want to have more of it, especially when other leaders are also flush with cash thanks to a failed attempt at a wonder:

I figured, what the heck, that tech was at risk of becoming obsolete real soon anyway.

Now that Isabella and I weren't together anymore, I felt free to hang out with almost anyone I wanted. She always said that this guy was a scruffy loser who dresses weird and gives her the creeps, but he ain't half-bad. Plus he's down on his luck and I kind of felt sorry for him.

I knew it wouldn't do him any good, but it made him happy.

I was feeling more over the whole sad affair with each turn that went by. I could focus on me for a change... well, that and the chosen victory condition. The Ironworks was nearing completion in Walata, so it felt right to pursue a tech that would boost production and reduce expenses, both in a big way:

I changed to State Property right away. It's great to be Spiritual... even if it does bring back painful memories of what I had in common with... no, never mind. I'm over her. It's best not to dwell on the past.

Besides, my new hetero life-mate was working out quite well:

And finally, at the end of the round, I finished researching a key technology for the space race, especially since it would reveal the presence of aluminum. I had lucked out so far and had oil, uranium, and coal. Surely I'd have a source of aluminum as well!

Turns out there are two source of aluminum on my continent. Look at where they are. Just look!

>sigh<... This is just like her. She's just SO selfish. She's doing this to me on purpose, you know. It's all out of spite. It's gotta be. I really hoped that we could be friends one day, but now that she's done this... I don't know. I didn't want this to become acrimonious, but I it looks like that's the way she wants it to go. Well, fine. FINE! I want my aluminum. And my CDs, too. And that sweater of mine she always liked to wear, 'cause it looked so cute on her...

Aw, hell.

You guys look at the save. I'm gonna go off and have a good cry.

 

[Sisiutil]

The State of the World, 1691 AD

Well, the big question is obvious: do I pull a gender-reversed Fatal Attraction on Isabella to get that aluminum, or do I take the high road and try to get on with my life (and get to Alpha Centauri) without it?

Let's start by checking everyone's attitudes towards me and my ex:

So attacking Isabella at this point would end the Defensive Pact with Mehmed and would also drop him from Friendly to Pleased, I think. On the other hand, I think I could get Huayna involved in a war against Spain. And Isabella doesn't have any techs or gold she could bribe Mehmed with to get him involved in a war on her side.

Speaking of techs, let's have a look at those. First off, compared to Isabella:

So I have Infantry, Tanks, Marines, Destroyers, Transports, and Battleships on Izzy. You can bet that if I go after her she'll bee-line through Physics to Artillery.

My techs compared to Huayna:

Yeah, I stopped on the way to Industrialism to get Fascism, for the free Great General (and to keep him out of the AI's hands--same reason I built the Pentagon in Walata, though that might be more worthwhile than I thought now). The GG built a military academy in Tadmekka (copper city)--for the culture and as a second military city. As with the Pentagon, that may prove more useful than I thought it would be.

My techs vis-a-vis Ragnar:

Compared to Mehmed:

He'll trade Artillery to me for the two techs I have on him. Seems pricey to me.

And compared to Washington:

I'm trying to avoid George these days, since he's Mehmed's worst enemy; though I am resource trading with him, since Mehmed hasn't asked me to stop.

Existing trades deals:

I don't know if I'd wipe Isabella out--maybe I'd vassalize her. That would ensure I can work those aluminum tiles, wouldn't it? I could also get some resources scot-free; I realized some of my health problems stem from the fact that I have no sheep or crabs; Izzy is hogging the only sources of those.

The domestic advisor:

The Pentagon will be done in 2 turns, so the tanks will come out with 5 XPs--and they could be higher if I change to the war civics temporarily.

Speaking of civics, here are the ones I'm currently running:

And, always relevant when considering a war, power:

I've got a definite tech edge on Isabella. Mehmed probably has more units, but I think he'd stay out of things. Huayna has been unit-building like crazy, hasn't he? I'm getting concerned that he may try to invade me, so I'm thinking of building and upgrading several ships to put paid to any funny ideas he might be having.

Demographics:

So that's the scoop. What do I do? War with Isabella, or build the space ship without aluminum? Now that Isabella is "cautious", I doubt that she'd trade aluminum to me even if I gifted her the required techs. And considering that the main one would let her build Marines and Tanks, that strikes me as kind of dangerous.

The complication is figuring out which way the other civs will jump. I kind of think Mehmed would avoid getting involved, though as I said, he'd drop to Pleased and I don't think I'd get the DP with him back. But if I build enough military to take some Spanish territory, I should be powerful enough to deter him.

Huayna is another complication; he obviously has a lot of units. Is he itching to use them? Should I invite him into the fight so he doesn't enter it on the wrong side?

Or, again, should I play peacefully and build the space ship without aluminum? Has anyone tried that? I've built it without the Space Elevator, a golden age, and the Three Gorges Dam, but not without aluminim, to the best of my recollection. I'm sure it's possible...

And what should I research next? I was thinking if it's peace, I go for Plastics next and build the dam in Walata. If it's war, then Radio is the next tech (helped by the GA), followed by Flight for Bombers. Or are there better choices I'm not considering?

 

[TRJS]

I have been reading a few of your ALC's to get some tips.

Just had to reply to this one and say not only is it extremely educational, its bloody hilarious.

Keep up the good work.

 

[kniteowl]

I find it strange in this game that Isabella's favorite Civic is theocracy yet she runs Free Religion instead. Ah well must be Blake's AI improvements, forcing the AI to choose to run the Best Civic (for it's time) over it's favorite.

Personally since the Aluminium resource are so close, I'd go for a limited War... taking the Cities that have the Resource and any nearby cities that have culture that may Steal the resource from you, then Either make her into a Vassal or Make peace with her and aim for a Space Race, While I bribe the Inca's to attack Isabella. As long as the War keeps them busy and delays them from building the Spaceship

 

[pigswill]

Nice write-up.
Don't trust Mehmed.
Trust no-one.

 

[cabert]

The real war civics are free speech for culture, theocracy (duh!) and Universal suffrage!
You could start building tanks/battleships/infantry/ canons (or trade for artillery, it's on the way to rocketry anyway) all over the place, switch to US and theo, run 100&#37; gold, wait for the pentagon to be finished, then $rush in those tanks in every city. After one round of buying, you can go back to research and just use your production cities to build the reinforcements.

If you do it this way, the war on isabella should be really short!
Santiago and valencia should fall on the first turn of war, you could use your GA to get the aluminium connected in this same first turn , and then infantry would defend those cities safely.
Your battelships would get the city defenses down to 0% while you face the counterattack (conquistadores ) in them.
You should be able to take the next cities with tanks alone...
And this is where isa should capitulate (although she can be a bit stubborn from my experience).

edit : one more thing, why didn't you use your GE to finish broadway?
one more more thing, is there some aluminium in ragnar's land?

 

[TheArchduke]

All things must come to an end. And so must Isabella.


That&#180;s my vote at least.

 

[patagonia]

Cabert's approach is a good one. If you're thinking war, US will give a nice boost to production too.

Alternatively, send some Buddhist missionaries to Spain. Some of her cities lack the religion so you might be able to push her back into the fold that way and save yourself the hassle.

From this situation you absolutely don't need aluminium to win a space race. You've got a huge production advantage on Huayna and the engine (which takes the bulk of the time at the end) can't be hurried with that resource anyway. Of course, if the warmonger in you is just itching to be unleashed...

[I'd save your artist for a golden age whichever approach you take]

 

[cabert]

[I'd save your artist for a golden age whichever approach you take]

the need for golden age is still a good way ahead, he'll have another GP before that (at least that was my reasoning, but it may be flawed)

 

[jerVL/kg]

You don't need aluminum all that badly, but your health problems won't go away anytime soon, so definitely you should war with Izzy and get that sheep. And those crabs. How did you live this long with Isabella without getting crabs?

US/Theo is the way to go. The war won't last long, after all you've got destroyers vs. her frigates, marines vs. her rifles, tanks vs. her...nothing. I wouldn't worry too much about HC or Mehmed, both of them are obviously gunning for space race. One thing, if you vassalize Izzy, make sure you leave her with furs, so you can still trade for them (they'll be obsolete by the time you capture them yourself.)

Has Wall Street been built yet? If not, Madrid looks like a good place for it...just sayin'.

 

[vormuir]

Best. Writeup. Ever.

(Hey, Mehmed is what they call a "bear", right? Haaa, just kidding!)


Waldo

 

[oyzar]

just wondering what the heck you are gonna do with all that gold. as you yhourself say you have more thna enough production cities so you shouldnt worry about rush buying anything. Why arent you running maxed out slider?

 

[cabert]

just wondering what the heck you are gonna do with all that gold. as you yhourself say you have more thna enough production cities so you shouldnt worry about rush buying anything. Why arent you running maxed out slider?

I just said the exact opposite = using all cities to get a massive army in 4/6turns:
- turn 1 : start tank in every city except pentagon builder (and possibly broadway builder, but that's debatable)
- turn 2 : start infantry or canon or ship in every city except pentagon builder (queue swapping)
- turn 3, after pentagon is done, switch to theocracy, US, (vassalage is an option too, but I not needed IMHO), $ rush canons and infantries and ships
- turn 4, $rush tanks.
- turn 5 : war!

having only 10 cities dedicated to this $ spending, you may have room for a third go. more tanks and cannons and infantry cannot be totally bad

If WW turns nasty, the spiritual sisiutil can then switch to police state.
IMHO, $ rushing is costing less than drafting, since you cannot grow back this fast with all those cottages.

edit : ho one more thing, I wouldn't let niani and tadmekka finish the destroyers before pentagon is done (so starting a tank there is good even if you don't plan to $ rush it).

 

[oyzar]

Why do he need to go to war? he wont win domination. I would say he is better off trying to get on the sweet side of his ex rather than force her! Voilence doesnt solve everything people! And aliuminum is not that vital. With a massive numbers of production cities your gonna be way more research limited than production limited anyways.

 

[cabert]

Why do he need to go to war? he wont win domination. I would say he is better off trying to get on the sweet side of his ex rather than force her! Voilence doesnt solve everything people! And aliuminum is not that vital. With a massive numbers of production cities your gonna be way more research limited than production limited anyways.

he wants his t-shirt back