ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus

[EEE_BOY]

i NW from current settler's position.that plain hill is so good with the surplus food in capital. two grasshills and cottage span the capital.....

 

[The Green Man]

Nope, that's part of why when in doubt the starting spot is usually the safest route, because it's guaranteed to never be the spot where a resource pops, and it's also guaranteed to have a certain number of resources in the fat cross (I don't know the number), so when you see little to no resources in your capitals fat cross, that often means you've got an early strategic resource like iron, copper, or horses.

This is definitely not true in Warlords. The game can start you on top of a visible resource, or on top of one that hasn't yet been revealed. Not uncommon at all, in fact.

Also, I've seen starts with as few as one resource in the capital: AI-controlled Monty in a continents game was started on top of desert hills gold, almost completely surrounded by flood plains, with no other resources. It could easily be that the pigs and corn are all that Sis would get from the starting spot.

Anyway, add another vote for 1NW, without further exploration. Lotsa food, trade a non-lighthouse coast for a plains hill...easy choice.

 

[CivSetä]

NW. You may settle on resource, or lose horses in the coast, but at least you can get three hills, which is more important IMHO. You need production and that plains hill is too good to miss. And if horses are in the coast, just research mysticism after AH and build a monument.

 

[scooter]

not true. as sure as isabella's a fanatic and monty's a psycho, i've started directly on top of metals, and i've had opponents start directly on top of horses. not often, but it's happened...

This is definitely not true in Warlords. The game can start you on top of a visible resource, or on top of one that hasn't yet been revealed. Not uncommon at all, in fact...

Hmm, well one thing's for sure, I haven't had Warlords for very long, so maybe there was a change from Vanilla (or maybe I've just never noticed it)... Either way, I'm obviously wrong on that one.

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

A round consisting of a single turn! Is that a first for the ALCs?

Yeah, most first rounds (or zeroth rounds, as they're sometimes labeled) are half a turn, when you move the warrior and come for more feedback.

Many posters on this board insist that these circles are based purely on the visible tiles and not on any hidden ones, but that's an awfully curious place for a city unless there's seafood over there.

The AI usually puts a blue circle on every stretch of coast, at the best possible city site. On that stretch, the spot marked is the only one to claim the pigs but no tundra. With a lighthouse and granary, plus commerce boosting buildings, it could be a pretty solid $ site with the coast and grassland tiles, but with poor production, even if seafood is absent.

The blue circles are based on resources that you can see, regardless of whether they are hidden or not. At the moment you can't see iron, copper, or horses, so those don't affect the blue circles. But the blue circle at the start was affected by the pigs even before you could see them. As you discover new terrain the circles will not move, but discovering techs that let you see new resources will move circles around.

I've had the opposite experience. In fact, I've sometimes thought the blue circles were only to find later that they make sense once late game resources were revealed. On the other hand, I have wandered around with settlers before (I'm still new to the game, and on settler/chieftain, you can still pop settlers from the early huts, so they have to find a place in the total fog; I played those difficulties not too long ago, now up to prince thanks mostly to the ALCs). It always frustrated me that I'd move to a blue circle (back then I trusted the AI more than myself) only to find it moved when terrain was revealed.

Of course, the Warlords thing could have flipped this. But if they took out the omniscience of knowing where late resources are, why would they add in knowing where hidden things are?

 

[EEE_BOY]

i miss the day when huts can pop settlers. on monarchy, u pray the huts for giving techs. on immortal, u beg no barbs pop from huts.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

I support 1 NW of the settler for the first city. You get at least 3 hills that way, which are easily supported by Pigs+Corn, and will allow you to start pumping out Immortals in no time.

 

[Nials]

Another vote for settling 1W of your initial starting location

 

[Fetch]

I decided that if I didn't move the Scout again, we'd spend 5 pages debating that, so I took it upon myself to go to the next turn and move him.

One of your best decisions in the ALC series, IMO. Let's keep it moving folks...

 

[Scaphism]

Another vote for settling NW of the current location. I'm happy to see those pigs too - while irrigated corn is awesome, Agriculture is a few steps away on the projected tech path.

I'd recommend Scout-Worker first, but my guess is that was already the plan. It's hard to say much of anything beyond that, but I'm excited for another game and glad you didn't regenerate the map.

Here's hoping you get horses and gold/silver/gems in your next city!

 

[facistal]

For the long term settling in place would make the captial a great commerce site, but its pretty hammer poor. I would have to agree that moving 1NW gives you max early production power which I think is what you want for an immortal rush.

Especially if you are going to ignore BW right off the bat you can grow to size four and crank out immortals -> AH -> Mining -> Second City -> Immortal Rush!!!!

 

[flamingzaroc121]

i would go 1 NW also cause there might be something hidden in the fog

 

[amaterasu]

Settle 1NW of the current settler position, you gte a few hills, a lot of food, good cottage land, or you go for an SE with the river tiles, perfect ^^

 

[Gr8scott]

Another vote for 1NW

I actually think horses popping on the city square would be at least neutral and perhaps an advantage compared to popping some place else. You get +1 hammer for the city and you get a 10+ turn head start on pumping out immortals since you don't have to develop the resource or build a road. I guess the headstart doesn't happen if you don't have wheel, but still not a catastrophe by any stretch...

GS

 

[Hero]

Yet another vote for 1NW. Actually you could have moved onto that tile on the next turn and show us what else you see, and still have one movement point left to settle. I'm curious whether we'll see some more hills (please please please gold) in the fog to the southwest.

 

[Sisiutil]

Okay, 1 NW it is. Let's regard that as decided and move on.

(By the way, Morgrad, that's silk up there near the sheep, not sugar. Not sure if that affects the bestiality theme you had going there, but perhaps it's best not to spend too much time reflecting on that. )

Let's discuss a couple of other important topics:

1. Technology

I think we're all agreed on researching Animal Husbandry first, and certainly the presence of a couple of nearby AH resources gives us even more impetus in that regard. After that it will be The Wheel in order to enable the UU. What techs should be a priority after that? Mining and Bronze Working leap to mind, or should I pursue something else?

2. Builds

What should the first build be?

Usually, in the past, when I started with Hunting I built a Scout for more exploration and, hopefully, goody huts. However, lately, I've been changing that. I play a lot of off-line games with the Canada mod; in that mod, Canada starts with what are probably the two weakest starting techs: Hunting and Fishing. This gives me a bit of a handicap to overcome.

So I've started building a Warrior first in those games. The Scout finds the closest neighbour, then the Warrior sniffs around their territory, snags a worker, and fortifies himself on a forested hill to stifle them. This usually gives me more time to settle nearby sites that the neighbour might have claimed before me.

So I'm thinking of repeating that pattern. Build a Warrior first, then a Worker, then a Settler to claim horses. Meanwhile, the Warrior heads off to harass a neighbour. What do the rest of you think?

 

[stuge]

Sounds good, except that if you're going to go worker stealing, build a craplot of warriors. The AI usually has one or two archers wandering around and they might find your capital in a pretty short order.

I have given up stealing workers since moving up to monarch. I've had too many promising starts backfire when a lone archer takes out my city while the warrior and worker are dodging a second one.

 

[Whitefire]

1. Technology

I think we're all agreed on researching Animal Husbandry first, and certainly the presence of a couple of nearby AH resources gives us even more impetus in that regard. After that it will be The Wheel in order to enable the UU. What techs should be a priority after that? Mining and Bronze Working leap to mind, or should I pursue something else?

Why not go for Writing before Bronze Working? Since you already have a strong, fast, cheap unit available after Wheel, you can hold off the barbs for some time with just Immortals. Writing will open up Libraries and allow you to get started on that SE (And pop an early GS in your high-food capital that will hopefully have 4 farmed tiles). After that, head to BW for slavery.

Also, Mysticism is a key tech for Charismatic leaders. Stonehenge would be a good wonder to nab after your second settler, which comes sooner than normal since you're Imperialistic.

 

[TheArchduke]

Don´t worker snatch with Cyrus. So scout first.

Doesn´t the AI build way more units when it is at war? You want your neighbours unprepared when 8-9 immortals descend on them.

 

[Gr8scott]

Don´t worker snatch with Cyrus. So scout first.

Doesn´t the AI build way more units when it is at war? You want your neighbours unprepared when 8-9 immortals descend on them.

I agree with this. Why on earth would you want to stiffle your nearest neighbor? Let him busily develop your (er, I mean his) land

Seriously, an early immortal rush is so fast developing, your first victim usually has no chance stiffled or not. Given that, it is much better not to stiffle...

GS