ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 2,036
An old saying, forgot where it comes form: "diplomacy far away, attack nearby". You need friends and you need to expand, best way to do it is to pincer your victims. I would've befriended Isabella and spited Huayna myself, but what's done is done. Hope Huayna has a Buddhist city then.
I looked at the map again, and there may seem to be oppertunities to trade away your health resources, even those that you only have 1 of, for hapiness resources. That may be a good way to highlight the UB.
I looked at the map again, and there may seem to be oppertunities to trade away your health resources, even those that you only have 1 of, for hapiness resources. That may be a good way to highlight the UB.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
for another perspective ...
this isn't Hello Kitty Best Friends Game[1]. this is civ4 warlords, friendship isn't forever. we're not ready to attack yet. shouldn't we partly pick our friends by how much use they'll be now ... if we think we can cultivate friendship with the other party later despite the damage done? i'm confident that S can make izzy a friend later, and i think he kind of likes the "kiss and make up" phase anyway
. plenty of time for tea parties after we make sure HC won't be a run-away tech leader. HC can be our friend for now, so that we can time the war for when we're ready. isabella wouldn't be a helpful friend IMO. getting CoL in a trade would be lovely, but it's a monopoly tech. helping in a war, i think she'd at best be a pillager, or the off-chance that HC gets distracted by her for a bit.i really like this thinking. i am a big believer in locking in available resource trades ASAP so that we don't lose the chance when they trade it to someone else. it's very much tied into the first point tho. all ongoing trades have to be considered politically, and leave you open to demands to cancel trading, which are guaranteed to gain you a - with somebody. if we trade with someone we're going to attack soon, we have to be careful of addiction to resources that we'll lose when that happens. that's fixable by whip tho (if we're not in caste). capturing and owning will of course be better than trading for it
. also, when we learn calendar, we gain access to 2 happies when they get hooked up (+ silk with a border pop), but we instantly lose the
from the monuments (charismatic). and we know how S is about workers sometimes (S you know i love you but...). again, whip can fix it, if we're not in caste.[1] yes i do own that game, a friend gave it to me. *giggle* we are both over 30 years old. the box recommends ages 7 to 10. big deal, it's just a recommendation! *more giggles*
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Maybe they should combine Civ IV Warlords with Hello Kitty Best Friends Game for the next expansion pack. So when you ask a leader "What Do You Think Of Cyrus" (say), they go "Cyrus, I like him! (Pleased)... Have a sticker!" and you get a sticker resource. Pass a UN resolution and you collect a sticker from each player. Mercilessly backstabbing players because you just noticed they have bananas in their fat cross means you lose a sticker. Maybe they could add a new victory condition "Hello Kitty Best Friends Victory" where you send a missionary to Hello Kittys House (you would probably have to build this or use a Great Hello Kitty Engineer or something) for a sleepover and have 2 stickers from every player.
Yes, I am bored.
Yes, I am bored.
Ecofarm
Deity
The era of immortals is not necessarily over. If you go to 100% research construction and move the army north, you can eliminate mongolia around the same time you finish CoL (after currency) and build courthouses (I would only burn the eastmost mongolian city).
'
Spoiler :
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 92
Right now there's a lot of concern about having two fronts. I'd just like to point out that if S attacks HC first, he'll still have 2 fronts; if it's GK first, he'll have 1 front. Not a huge reason to change targets, but might push it towards GK if we're really 50/50 on this one.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
BlueSoxSWJ, i don't understand what you mean. add lack of sleep to my permanoobness 
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I think S = Sisiutil, I'm sure you can work the rest out yourself
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i know the initials. i can't do the one front, two fronts, backwards math 
. unless maybe he means after the war is all over, counting isabella as a front? i hadn't thought of that at first, since i don't usually think of her as threatening, just annoying, and i didn't think we were worried about her yet.
. unless maybe he means after the war is all over, counting isabella as a front? i hadn't thought of that at first, since i don't usually think of her as threatening, just annoying, and i didn't think we were worried about her yet.
Charou
Warlord
IMHO, Sisiutil has had a decent pre-construction war and did a good land grab at China's expense. The UU was leveraged, and still can.
His troops gained experienced thanks to the charismatic traits,
which is a long-lived advantage.
Keep up the good work!
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Sorry for the lack of an update. I got busy at work this week. I'll try to get the next round played and posted soon.
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 92
i know the initials. i can't do the one front, two fronts, backwards math
Yes - my point was that if HC gets taken down now, S will have Isabella and GK as direct neighbors, and thus will have to continue to leave (at least a token) security force behind for the war. If GK goes first, for the rest of the game, he'd be fighting a one-front war and not have to worry about someone
ing him at all.
the biggest backstabbers is HC.
My concern is we (well, I include myself although I did differently in a shadow game. By the wayn is there is no spoiler thread, this time? shall I start one?) didn't hit HC soon enough.
Taking him down wasn't really necessary at this stage, but hurting him deeply (taking down copper city, pillaging all that could be, for once) could have been good.
IMHO we have 2 options now :
1) hit with huge losses (I still would go for HC)
2) give the immortals a pat on the back, and send them on fogbusting and garison duty (they still are better than archers)
My concern is we (well, I include myself although I did differently in a shadow game. By the wayn is there is no spoiler thread, this time? shall I start one?) didn't hit HC soon enough.
Taking him down wasn't really necessary at this stage, but hurting him deeply (taking down copper city, pillaging all that could be, for once) could have been good.
IMHO we have 2 options now :
1) hit with huge losses (I still would go for HC)
2) give the immortals a pat on the back, and send them on fogbusting and garison duty (they still are better than archers
)futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
You must massage the situation to have Genghis as your pet against HC. Or at the very least you want Genghis at war with Issy so he's off your back. Once he is at war, you join the war with him (fake war if Issy, possibly fake with HC as well).
I would suggest doing some lightbulbing to give you some bribing bait for Genghis.
If he won't declare on HC then I wouldn't attack HC yet. You don't want him bribing Genghis against you. Pillaging isn't worth it.
At this point, if it were me, I'd build one more city (the 2 gold pit one if at all possible) and make the run to military tradition lightbulbing all the way.
It doesn't matter what HC is doing because once you have cav he'll fall quickly. As long as you do everything in your power to build relations with Genghis I can't see anyone invading you and you should be able to bribe Genghis to at the very least attack Issy at some point (whether he does any dmg is irrelevant because you just want him off your back).
Don't bother attacking Genghis. He'll become less of a threat as the game goes by. I would say sack HC then Genghis post-cav adding grens as necessary. Sack Issy by adding rifles and cannons if necessary. I tend to like attacking when I have some kind of an advantage and I don't see you having that right now over HC or Genghis. Either war right now would probably be a dog-fight. You have horses, make the run to cav. You've got the GL, put it to use lightbulbing.
MAKE SURE YOU LIGHTBULB PHIL! You need a religion to be able to run pacifism and you can send the missionary to genghis cementing bad relations with issy, souring relations with HC, and building relations with you. That is a huge diplomatic move you are going to need to make imho. Make sure you have MEDITATION and col or drama.
Imho you didn't go hard enough soon enough with the immortals. If you had gone harder sooner (all out immortals after your first 2 cities had barracks in place and then non-stop pretty much) I think you could've finished China faster and gone on to do significant damage to HC. A couple delays I think led to your inability to now effectively push on into Incan territory. When I play as Cyrus I routinely take out 2 civs if they are that close with immortals alone (always focus on metals first and early). But I still think you are in good position now for a push to cav.
The reason I suggest another city is so you can get 6 theatres built and the globe started so you can draft muskets to support your cav assault on your continent. They're decent defense against pikes and are ok at holding conquered cities.
I would suggest doing some lightbulbing to give you some bribing bait for Genghis.
If he won't declare on HC then I wouldn't attack HC yet. You don't want him bribing Genghis against you. Pillaging isn't worth it.
At this point, if it were me, I'd build one more city (the 2 gold pit one if at all possible) and make the run to military tradition lightbulbing all the way.
It doesn't matter what HC is doing because once you have cav he'll fall quickly. As long as you do everything in your power to build relations with Genghis I can't see anyone invading you and you should be able to bribe Genghis to at the very least attack Issy at some point (whether he does any dmg is irrelevant because you just want him off your back).
Don't bother attacking Genghis. He'll become less of a threat as the game goes by. I would say sack HC then Genghis post-cav adding grens as necessary. Sack Issy by adding rifles and cannons if necessary. I tend to like attacking when I have some kind of an advantage and I don't see you having that right now over HC or Genghis. Either war right now would probably be a dog-fight. You have horses, make the run to cav. You've got the GL, put it to use lightbulbing.
MAKE SURE YOU LIGHTBULB PHIL! You need a religion to be able to run pacifism and you can send the missionary to genghis cementing bad relations with issy, souring relations with HC, and building relations with you. That is a huge diplomatic move you are going to need to make imho. Make sure you have MEDITATION and col or drama.
Imho you didn't go hard enough soon enough with the immortals. If you had gone harder sooner (all out immortals after your first 2 cities had barracks in place and then non-stop pretty much) I think you could've finished China faster and gone on to do significant damage to HC. A couple delays I think led to your inability to now effectively push on into Incan territory. When I play as Cyrus I routinely take out 2 civs if they are that close with immortals alone (always focus on metals first and early). But I still think you are in good position now for a push to cav.
The reason I suggest another city is so you can get 6 theatres built and the globe started so you can draft muskets to support your cav assault on your continent. They're decent defense against pikes and are ok at holding conquered cities.
It may not be necessary to destroy/capture the Incan city founded right on the copper. If the roads around it are pillaged then this should limit Incan production of copper-based units to just those made in that one city (unless it's on a river - I can't remember). Although destroying it would be nice, it may be too difficult or costly to do this now.
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
Yes, but they now have iron as well somewhere (swords), maybe in more than one location...
You've been hanging out with aelf haven't you?
Well, at least you didn't use the T word
popejubal
Emperor
You've been hanging out with aelf haven't you?
Well, at least you didn't use the T word
Tsoon? Sisiutil doesn't have any accent that I've heard yet...
Similar threads
