flamingzaroc121
Emperor
so really S would be getting part of Constitution, part of Scientific Method, and all of DR. i say why not. take the peace deal and take out Izzy
ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
so really S would be getting part of Constitution, part of Scientific Method, and all of DR. i say why not. take the peace deal and take out Izzy
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Upon reconsideration, take Inca's deal and start prepping for your assault on Spain.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1709 AD
We'll start off with a look at the map. My continent, first of all.
...and a look at the barb island to the east:
I'm building a few Galleons in my eastern coastal cities. I'm thinking I should send some units to capture that barb city--maybe a Settler as well--just in case the territory on my own continent isn't enough.
The Domestic Advisor, part 1:
...and, because I just have so many cities, part 2:
As you can see, several recently-captured cities are building culture--keep that in mind when we look at the land I own in the victory conditions, below.
Civics:
I was thinking of changing civics on the next turn, to Representation. If I end the war with Huayna, I won't need HR's military police for the happiness bonuses, allowing me to delete some obsolete units and/or redeploy some more recent ones. I was also thinking of changing to Free Speech for the cultural boost, so hopefully some of the borders will pop quicker. Even if I get Economics from Huayna, however, I think I'll stick with Mercantilism.
Diplomatic relations:
Techs compared to Ragnar:
Compared to Isabella:
So Izzy apparently has Military Tradition for Cavalry, but no Grenadiers, Rifles, Frigates, or Cannons. She's done for, the poor girl.
Compared to Huayna:
I will see if I can get Scientific Method rather than Constitution from him in return for peace and maybe capitulation.
And compared to Frederick, who despite his low position on the scoreboard is doing very admirably in the tech department:
Of course, I did help him out a little, if you'll recall.
The Military Advisor:
So I don't think we'll see another Great General in this game, which brings up the question of what to do with the latest one. Janus0, that's such an excellent suggestion that I followed it several rounds back; a Medic III unit (in this game, an Immortal) is the first thing I do with my first Great General.
And the very important victory conditions:
I'm very, very close to a domination win. I would be surprised if taking my own continent (even without Spain's northwest island) wasn't enough for the win, but as I said, I think capturing that barb city on that SE island just in case is a good idea (it may also accelerate the win by a turn or two).
The production chart:
Um... wow. Oh, yeah, Ragnar had a Golden Age the exact same turns I did! Obviously he use a couple of Great People.
Power:
Okay, it looks like Ragnar got Rifling and upgraded several of his units. No biggie. And even if Isabella has MT, it doesn't look like she's done any upgrades to Cavarly--I'd expect to see a spike if she had. Taking Spain should be a walk in the park, frankly.
And finally, demographics:
All told, I agree with Validator that I should be able to wrap up this game very quickly. Peace with Huayna, 2 stacks attacking Spain immediately, and an invasion of the barb island should all add up to victory. Nevertheless, I look forward to any further tips on how to achieve it as quickly as possible.
We'll start off with a look at the map. My continent, first of all.
...and a look at the barb island to the east:
I'm building a few Galleons in my eastern coastal cities. I'm thinking I should send some units to capture that barb city--maybe a Settler as well--just in case the territory on my own continent isn't enough.
The Domestic Advisor, part 1:
...and, because I just have so many cities, part 2:
As you can see, several recently-captured cities are building culture--keep that in mind when we look at the land I own in the victory conditions, below.
Civics:
I was thinking of changing civics on the next turn, to Representation. If I end the war with Huayna, I won't need HR's military police for the happiness bonuses, allowing me to delete some obsolete units and/or redeploy some more recent ones. I was also thinking of changing to Free Speech for the cultural boost, so hopefully some of the borders will pop quicker. Even if I get Economics from Huayna, however, I think I'll stick with Mercantilism.
Diplomatic relations:
Techs compared to Ragnar:
Compared to Isabella:
So Izzy apparently has Military Tradition for Cavalry, but no Grenadiers, Rifles, Frigates, or Cannons. She's done for, the poor girl.
Compared to Huayna:
I will see if I can get Scientific Method rather than Constitution from him in return for peace and maybe capitulation.
And compared to Frederick, who despite his low position on the scoreboard is doing very admirably in the tech department:
Of course, I did help him out a little, if you'll recall.
The Military Advisor:
So I don't think we'll see another Great General in this game, which brings up the question of what to do with the latest one. Janus0, that's such an excellent suggestion that I followed it several rounds back; a Medic III unit (in this game, an Immortal) is the first thing I do with my first Great General.
And the very important victory conditions:
I'm very, very close to a domination win. I would be surprised if taking my own continent (even without Spain's northwest island) wasn't enough for the win, but as I said, I think capturing that barb city on that SE island just in case is a good idea (it may also accelerate the win by a turn or two).
The production chart:
Um... wow. Oh, yeah, Ragnar had a Golden Age the exact same turns I did! Obviously he use a couple of Great People.
Power:
Okay, it looks like Ragnar got Rifling and upgraded several of his units. No biggie. And even if Isabella has MT, it doesn't look like she's done any upgrades to Cavarly--I'd expect to see a spike if she had. Taking Spain should be a walk in the park, frankly.
And finally, demographics:
All told, I agree with Validator that I should be able to wrap up this game very quickly. Peace with Huayna, 2 stacks attacking Spain immediately, and an invasion of the barb island should all add up to victory. Nevertheless, I look forward to any further tips on how to achieve it as quickly as possible.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
"Okay, the Sistine Chapel isn't exactly going to be a cornerstone of my victory in this game, but I never scoff at a wonder I get for "free"."
it actually might help you out quite a bit! i love capturing that one from louis, even when i'm not aiming for domination. it's really handy for grabbing control of tiles quickly during the war, to slow down enemy movement since you control the roads, etc. but since you are ... and because of this next quote ...
"I was also thinking of changing to Free Speech for the cultural boost, so hopefully some of the borders will pop quicker. Even if I get Economics from Huayna, however, I think I'll stick with Mercantilism."
mercantilism + free sistine chapel = very good when you're going for domination
even if you left caste system for some reason, teensy tiny one person towns could run a freebie citizen specialist that would get 2 culture per turn. yeehaw!
*giggle* look at those top 3 cultural cities! your second two are about tied with izzy's. but yours are a former barb city and someone else's former capital, hers have been hers forever. what a slacker she has been!
i don't actually pop GPs for the lightbulb until i'm ready to research the tech. the fact that you had already researched const to just one turn is part of HC's offer was so generous, i'm sure he'd not have offered all that if you hadn't, and we can't assume he'd just swap out those techs for SciM of course. but i wonder why you popped the GS before you were going to benefit from the beakers he gave, maybe i'm missing something?
edit: ooph you traded for astro after popping him. astro is an OR pre-req for SciM with chemistry, so now SciM is cheaper for you to research than it would have been then. but i wonder if that discount counts as much now, even though you only have X beakers left, or if would it have counted for more if you'd popped him after knowing both? i don't know, maybe it only impacts the "leftover" beakers in cases when you bulb anyway. we all know i'm no expert.
it actually might help you out quite a bit! i love capturing that one from louis, even when i'm not aiming for domination. it's really handy for grabbing control of tiles quickly during the war, to slow down enemy movement since you control the roads, etc. but since you are ... and because of this next quote ...
"I was also thinking of changing to Free Speech for the cultural boost, so hopefully some of the borders will pop quicker. Even if I get Economics from Huayna, however, I think I'll stick with Mercantilism."
mercantilism + free sistine chapel = very good when you're going for domination
even if you left caste system for some reason, teensy tiny one person towns could run a freebie citizen specialist that would get 2 culture per turn. yeehaw!*giggle* look at those top 3 cultural cities! your second two are about tied with izzy's. but yours are a former barb city and someone else's former capital, hers have been hers forever. what a slacker she has been!
i don't actually pop GPs for the lightbulb until i'm ready to research the tech. the fact that you had already researched const to just one turn is part of HC's offer was so generous, i'm sure he'd not have offered all that if you hadn't, and we can't assume he'd just swap out those techs for SciM of course. but i wonder why you popped the GS before you were going to benefit from the beakers he gave, maybe i'm missing something?
edit: ooph you traded for astro after popping him. astro is an OR pre-req for SciM with chemistry, so now SciM is cheaper for you to research than it would have been then. but i wonder if that discount counts as much now, even though you only have X beakers left, or if would it have counted for more if you'd popped him after knowing both? i don't know, maybe it only impacts the "leftover" beakers in cases when you bulb anyway. we all know i'm no expert.
first, I'm glad to see you came back to a more "serious" game. I think the weekly schedule wasn't working very well.
Second, you did right about murcia. I didn't notice that there were resources you didn't have there. My idea was that your borders would extend a lot from the culture slider and swallow the few tiles murcia covered, but you needed the happiness and waiting 20 turns to get those resources would have been wrong.
And i second Kmad's point about sistin chapel.
Maybe you didn't notice but you just need 3 "working" population points, assigned to artists thanks to caste system, in a revolting city to get your fat cross immediately after the revolt. Sometimes it takes a bit of juggling to have 3 working population points (especially in big cities), but with mercantilism you only need 2, so that should be really manageable.
With free speech you're down to 1
. With 2 religions in the city and free religion, you need 0 
.
All hail sistin chapel!
For the rest of the game, I don't think you need much advice. All the hard work is done, it's just mop up duty. I'd take HC's offer and move to isabella straight away.
You may have noticed that HC is not even furious at you.
You may get him back to pleased (or even friendly) after vassalizing him. So you may trade him steel for scientific method or whatever he has in stock. (I also second Kmad's remark about using the GS at a time where he didn't give you a complete science. Your empire's size was growing quickly, and you wasted 3 beakers*number of additionnal citizens by lightbulbing too early. You could have checked after every city capture how many beakers he gave, very educationnal).
About your GG and GE, they won't give much.
If it was my game, I would settle them in some culturally disputed city to make the best use of sistin chapel, but that's just to finish with style. Frankly you could disband them and still win hands down.
Second, you did right about murcia. I didn't notice that there were resources you didn't have there. My idea was that your borders would extend a lot from the culture slider and swallow the few tiles murcia covered, but you needed the happiness and waiting 20 turns to get those resources would have been wrong.
And i second Kmad's point about sistin chapel.
Maybe you didn't notice but you just need 3 "working" population points, assigned to artists thanks to caste system, in a revolting city to get your fat cross immediately after the revolt. Sometimes it takes a bit of juggling to have 3 working population points (especially in big cities), but with mercantilism you only need 2, so that should be really manageable.
With free speech you're down to 1
. With 2 religions in the city and free religion, you need 0 .All hail sistin chapel!
For the rest of the game, I don't think you need much advice. All the hard work is done, it's just mop up duty. I'd take HC's offer and move to isabella straight away.
You may have noticed that HC is not even furious at you.
You may get him back to pleased (or even friendly
) after vassalizing him. So you may trade him steel for scientific method or whatever he has in stock. (I also second Kmad's remark about using the GS at a time where he didn't give you a complete science. Your empire's size was growing quickly, and you wasted 3 beakers*number of additionnal citizens by lightbulbing too early. You could have checked after every city capture how many beakers he gave, very educationnal).About your GG and GE, they won't give much.
If it was my game, I would settle them in some culturally disputed city to make the best use of sistin chapel, but that's just to finish with style. Frankly you could disband them and still win hands down.
carl corey
Deity
Divine Right?? Feh. See if he'll cough up Scientific Method instead! Then you can pick up DR after you wipe out Izzy.
No, he said the GS could lightbulb most of SM. At least I hope that's what he said...it makes no sense to partially lb a tech that you don't plan to research immediately...
He did indeed lightbulb. Notice that when the GE pops he can't get a Golden Age, so there's no other great person present. And yeah, he should exchange DR for SM, it should work since the AI knows how many beakers you have left to research.
Porphyrius
Warlord
Well now, that wasnt too rough... You can always count on the AI to trip on his feet it seems.
I bet AI considers pulling a handfull units behind your lines a major strategic achievment. Hats off to going for astronomy thoough, I mean HC would probably be out of the game entirely without it, wouldnt he?
More seriously, i doubt he did it to expand or he would have been quicker about it. Most likely he just wanted to do some counter-pillaging recognizing your superior army, with the hope that you would react as other AI does and call for truce. Such a thing happens quite consistenly to me. Probably the fact that i neglect my navy till oil is around the corner has much to do with it.
Though far from critical, the Sistine Chapel might speed things a bit with establishing claim on your newly aquired territories. And switching to Free Speech is a well aimed move in the same direction too. If i recall well the area around Micchu-Pichu and your former borders are sparsely filled with cities, in fact you might need to find a bogus city to speed things up if the border gap is to large.
Your continent looks plentiful to provide for a domination victory. I'd say you ll be about 67-68% land when you drive Izzy out. Which needs not be delayed as it should be easy to deal with. Mostly a little wrapping up before final victory...
As for the GG, well since you dont seem to even need to speed up Galleon production, you might as well join him with a canon as a salute to the most critical weapon of the war that spawned him(i mean you have a mounted one and a gunpowder allready). He is not really needed anywhere. That makes 6 GG total in 3 wars, not bad hmmm... I think GG have enough uses as it is though.
Gunpowder actually. Funny thing is Sisiutil traded it to Izzy to help him stand up to HC. Not that Izzy can make enough cav to cause problems, but hey...
I bet AI considers pulling a handfull units behind your lines a major strategic achievment. Hats off to going for astronomy thoough, I mean HC would probably be out of the game entirely without it, wouldnt he?
More seriously, i doubt he did it to expand or he would have been quicker about it. Most likely he just wanted to do some counter-pillaging recognizing your superior army, with the hope that you would react as other AI does and call for truce. Such a thing happens quite consistenly to me. Probably the fact that i neglect my navy till oil is around the corner has much to do with it.
Though far from critical, the Sistine Chapel might speed things a bit with establishing claim on your newly aquired territories. And switching to Free Speech is a well aimed move in the same direction too. If i recall well the area around Micchu-Pichu and your former borders are sparsely filled with cities, in fact you might need to find a bogus city to speed things up if the border gap is to large.
Your continent looks plentiful to provide for a domination victory. I'd say you ll be about 67-68% land when you drive Izzy out. Which needs not be delayed as it should be easy to deal with. Mostly a little wrapping up before final victory...
As for the GG, well since you dont seem to even need to speed up Galleon production, you might as well join him with a canon as a salute to the most critical weapon of the war that spawned him(i mean you have a mounted one and a gunpowder allready). He is not really needed anywhere. That makes 6 GG total in 3 wars, not bad hmmm... I think GG have enough uses as it is though.
Sisutil wrote:
Isn't rifling+MT needed to produce cavalry? Or is it only gunpowder? I'm at work so i can't check.
Not that it matters much
Snow
Gunpowder actually. Funny thing is Sisiutil traded it to Izzy to help him stand up to HC. Not that Izzy can make enough cav to cause problems, but hey...
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,282
Looking t everything so far:
Teching will be fine due to the extra bulbs you've poured into SM.
Military Power will enable you to screw Isabella
and overall "domination" is looking fine. Just man a couple Galleons and send some Frigs to screw HC and Barb Isle, if Fredrick doesn't hit it first.
Teching will be fine due to the extra bulbs you've poured into SM.
Military Power will enable you to screw Isabella
and overall "domination" is looking fine. Just man a couple Galleons and send some Frigs to screw HC and Barb Isle, if Fredrick doesn't hit it first.
Anybody else thinking Sisiutil is having a too easy time on monarch?? Maybe it is time to turn it up a notch Just kidding. Love this series but to me it seems this game was just too easy. Just mop up duty left and you are just in the 17's. Great game so far.
Just kidding. Love this series but to me it seems this game was just too easy. Just mop up duty left and you are just in the 17's. Great game so far.
Hero
NPC
Does Isabella even have Horses?
OTAKUjbski
TK421
Anybody else thinking Sisiutil is having a too easy time on monarch?? Maybe it is time to turn it up a notch
It's not necessarily that Monarch is too easy. It's that the AI is a bumbling idiot. HC's research of Astronomy proves it. A more intelligent research wouldn't have made Sisiutil's campaign look such like the hot knife through butter it was.
I look forward to BtS when the AI is [supposedly] intelligent enough not to make these types of critical mistakes.
The majority of CivFanatics play at Prince/Monarch (I think the last poll put only 15-20% at Emperor+), so staying at Monarch is a good idea, imho.
Yes. In Madrid.
@Sisiutil:
Close your eyes and just start clicking buttons ... I bet you'll still win.
Since you already have all the units you need to conquer Spain, make your GG a Warlord ... XP'ing up new units is moot at this stage.
Other than that, it's like everyone else has said ... mop them up.
Good game.
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 2,037
What happened? For a while I thought you screwed up your specialist economy and are about to lose the game! How did you get yourself a stack of grandiers?
Advice? None, really. If I have no idea how you got to where you are, I really can't extrapolate. Weird.
Advice? None, really. If I have no idea how you got to where you are, I really can't extrapolate. Weird.
Kev
Hired Goon
I see that Izzy does have horses near her capital, but not a big deal as they can be eradicated soon enough and it means the worst that will be seen are Cavs and Conquistadors. So long as we have rifle support, no problemo.
Just a matter now as to how fast domination can be reached. I'd put a small stack together with a few galleons and hit the barb city while moving through Spain. Never hurts to go over, and it may pop quicker than some of the former Spanish cities.
With regard to the great people:
With the GG I would suggest having another medicIII unit. Allows for two stacks with each having their own medic. If you have already done this then I'd settle him somewhere. Gives the extra exp but with Sistine I think it gives some extra culture and with Rep a few extra beakers as well.
With the GE, it's between two things for me. If you really wanted to get toward RR in order to help your troops move, then lightbulb, get to steam so you know where there is coal and get RR up quickly. If you figure you'd be done before you could make use of RR, then I'd check to see if there was a national wonder nearby that might be rushed. Perhaps a quick Wall Street - maybe Ironworks if that is not built already... I don't think that there is a world wonder available is there?
Great job of pressing the advantage over HC. In my own Monarch games I am learning quickly to push the military side of things even if I don't feel that things are "perfect", and a VAST majority of the time this has worked to my great advantage.
Look forward to this story's denouement.
Just a matter now as to how fast domination can be reached. I'd put a small stack together with a few galleons and hit the barb city while moving through Spain. Never hurts to go over, and it may pop quicker than some of the former Spanish cities.
With regard to the great people:
With the GG I would suggest having another medicIII unit. Allows for two stacks with each having their own medic. If you have already done this then I'd settle him somewhere. Gives the extra exp but with Sistine I think it gives some extra culture and with Rep a few extra beakers as well.
With the GE, it's between two things for me. If you really wanted to get toward RR in order to help your troops move, then lightbulb, get to steam so you know where there is coal and get RR up quickly. If you figure you'd be done before you could make use of RR, then I'd check to see if there was a national wonder nearby that might be rushed. Perhaps a quick Wall Street - maybe Ironworks if that is not built already... I don't think that there is a world wonder available is there?
Great job of pressing the advantage over HC. In my own Monarch games I am learning quickly to push the military side of things even if I don't feel that things are "perfect", and a VAST majority of the time this has worked to my great advantage.
Look forward to this story's denouement.
Yeah, you've got nothing more to gain from fighting Huyana if he's off of your continent, if it were earlier in the game i'd say kill him off to make your cities 100% persian but you don't need much more now. Capulate him, kill izzy, if that isn't enough just sweep up on the more backwards 2nd continent.
Lance of Llanwy
King
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 710
Yeah, just beat around the comely religious fanatic...but be sure to vassalize her, so you're not lonely after your victory
In any case, at this point there is no long-term, so burn the GG for another Warlord. That's how he's going to speed up your conquest. It doesn't really matter on what, just make yourself some super units and have fun. The Sistine Chapel can help with the border pops...and it'll be over soon...
In any case, at this point there is no long-term, so burn the GG for another Warlord. That's how he's going to speed up your conquest. It doesn't really matter on what, just make yourself some super units and have fun. The Sistine Chapel can help with the border pops...and it'll be over soon...
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
The game is over at this point. Take HC's deal as those techs will pump up your final score. The only question now is whether you want to immediately declare on Izzy, which will make the game take longer but likely end in fewer turns and possibly a greater final score, or sit back, let borders pop, take the barb island, and see how close you really are, which may cost a turn or two and a handful of points, but is less work for you... in any case, great game!
slaze
Deity
I often attach a GG to a seige when i get loads of them (imperialistic). As everyone has pointed out, this one's just about over, but try it sometime. Combat 4/City raider 3 cannon doesn't even need a suicide to soften things first.
aelf
Ashen One
Unfortunately, I can't seem to see the pictures for half a day now, and it really detracts from the reading. They are not crosses or anything. I just see a few lines of space as if nothing is there. Anybody else experiencing this? What could be the problem? The screenshots in my own thread are fine.
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