Let me be the first to pre-congratulate you on your first Emperor ALC win
And let ME be the first to pre-congratulate you on your second through ninth Emperor ALC wins
Edit: 600th reply. Yay me
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ALC Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
And let ME be the first to pre-congratulate you on your second through ninth Emperor ALC wins
Edit: 600th reply. Yay me
One context in which razing would become very relevant is if you decided to go for a space race victory after all. In that scenario, you need to keep Gilgamesh from winning by cultural, and the most efficient way to do that could be a surgical strike to raze one or two of his legendary cities. Then you could run away and just sink all the boats with which he would try to invade you back.
Wow, you guys are bloodthirsty!
When you capture a city, all culture-producing buildings are destroyed theaters, monasteries, cathedrals, you name it. All National Wonders disappear too.
So, just capturing a city for a single turn is probably enough to block a culture win even if the AI retakes it immediately, itll be very hard for him to raise its culture output back.
Waldo
When you capture a city, all culture-producing buildings are destroyed theaters, monasteries, cathedrals, you name it. All National Wonders disappear too.
So, just capturing a city for a single turn is probably enough to block a culture win even if the AI retakes it immediately, itll be very hard for him to raise its culture output back.
Waldo
Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 274
The only way to remove the culture of a city is to raze it. If the enemy retakes it quickly, it will still have the culture it previously had and will be able to quickly rebuild the culture buildings it lost during the occupation. I don't think it can rebuild its lost national wonders, though. Its race to legendary status will be slowed a bit.
Deraillling Gilgamesh's culture will be best served by levelling the cities. I am pre-disposed towards removing every city. Perhaps, that a consequence of being adressed by a "divine" leader.
Deraillling Gilgamesh's culture will be best served by levelling the cities. I am pre-disposed towards removing every city. Perhaps, that a consequence of being adressed by a "divine" leader.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i'm not picking a pro-raze or anti-raze side. but just so that you know, you do get to rebuild nationals that you lose. they're not "one chance ever" they're "one at a time ever".
my latest domination game, when i got close to the limit, i just brought along settlers and razed just about every city at the end. i resettled the cities when i cleared that area of bad guys. waiting around 12+ turns for their big cities to come out of revolt is a drag once you're close. we're not that close yet of course.
sisuitil,
this was one of those minor but beautiful changes in BTS.
if you don't have an airport.. yeah only 1 unit per turn.
if the city you're landing in has an airport you can
SEND 1 UNIT FROM EACH CITY ONTO THAT NEW ONE EVERY SINGLE TURN
it has become my new doctrine for taking over the enemy continent.
establish a beachhead.. use diplo to pick the best target.
begin mass production of airports... rush buy one on the beachhead.
every city in the empire begins to send over 1 tank or modern armor/whatever every 3 turns or so. for your empire the stack should grow by 3-4 units every turn.
as you expand, drop 1 unit into the newly captured cities to help garrison, when you're far enough in buy a new airport and begin mass airdrops to that point to save yourself moves.
hope that helps with the plannage
NaZ
this was one of those minor but beautiful changes in BTS.
if you don't have an airport.. yeah only 1 unit per turn.
if the city you're landing in has an airport you can
SEND 1 UNIT FROM EACH CITY ONTO THAT NEW ONE EVERY SINGLE TURN
it has become my new doctrine for taking over the enemy continent.
establish a beachhead.. use diplo to pick the best target.
begin mass production of airports... rush buy one on the beachhead.
every city in the empire begins to send over 1 tank or modern armor/whatever every 3 turns or so. for your empire the stack should grow by 3-4 units every turn.
as you expand, drop 1 unit into the newly captured cities to help garrison, when you're far enough in buy a new airport and begin mass airdrops to that point to save yourself moves.
hope that helps with the plannage
NaZ
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Round eight was a week ago. Where's the update?
Why not just one? The other two probably have a couple nice wonders in them, and are at least probably well placed cities with some good infrastructure and a decent population in place. Gilgamesh won't be able to get another city up to Legendary before the game ends, even if Sisiutil had to go for space instead of domination. There's no reason to burn three good cities when you can just burn one and accomplish the same ends - keeping the AI from winning.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Sorry for the delay. Modern-era wars in this game are very involved and often tiring. I find I tend to do best with them if I shorten my time playing. If I play a modern war for more than a couple of hours, I tend to get apathetic and start making some very foolish decisions. (Yes, more so than usual.Round eight was a week ago. Where's the update?
) Anyway, I will probably post the next round tonight, and no, the game's not over yet. Something somewhat surprising did indeed happen, so we need to discuss what to do next.
Welnic
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,057
This isn't new with BTS, airports have always worked this way. The only thing is you have to wait for that first city to come out of revolt, then pay for the airport somehow.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Prediction: Surynaman went nuts and declared war on you first!
viinno
Chieftain
Sep 28, 2007, 06:09 PM Round 8
Oct 05, 2007, 08:39PM No round 9
Sis do you have any idea what it feels like for a junkie being forced to go cold turkey?
Oct 05, 2007, 08:39PM No round 9
Sis do you have any idea what it feels like for a junkie being forced to go cold turkey?
Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 274
Lagasha was the third city before London overtook it. That means two must go.
Something happened does not sound good. Extremely ominous to be exact.
Something happened does not sound good. Extremely ominous to be exact.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Perhaps not ominous, but... well, it complicates things, that's for sure.
tboner23
Chieftain
There is a new vassal and we have a three country block on the other continent to contend with. And Washington is toast...
That's my thought.
That's my thought.
You really shouldn't tell us that you'll update later tonight, and then post little teasing bits. You see that Sisiutil has posted, and you know an update was promised so you rush in and....there's no update.
Just kidding.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 9: 1838 AD to 1938 AD (99 turns), Part 1
I began the round determined to finish the game. Things didn't turn out that way.
The first thing I had to do, though, was finish off Rome. So the stack of ships and land units that had just finished off Justinian turned south and headed to Augustus' island refuge:
Needless to say, Augustus didn't last long, but my UU did get a bit of a workout:
Overall I'd have to say that Spain's UU is good, but not one of the standout units in the game. It's still possible to run into a lot of melee units with them, as demonstrated above. However, they don't compare to Spain's UB, which I regard as the killer item in Isabella's arsenal.
Back home, I used production powerhouse Rome to finish its first of several wonders:
By this point, this began to feel a lot like a Monarch level game for me. I was, basically, dominating, out-teching the AI and building any wonders my little heart desired. Gilgamesh had the potential to be a real threat based upon his size, but he chose to pursue a cultural win and that was a risk that cost him dearly.
Of course, he wasn't paying the price yet, but Augustus did:
I also took the barb city on that island and didn't break it away into a colony. Since I'm trying for a domination win, I wanted to try to hang on to as much land as I could, provided I could afford it. Since I have a commanding tech lead, I decided that I certainly could.
However, that was while running State Property, and that was about to change.
With Medicine now in hand, I decided to found Sid's Sushi in the Wall Street city, Barcelona:
That called for a civics change...
As it turned out, that didn't cost me too much. I did have to spread Sid's Sushi to a couple of cities in a hurry--Seville in particular--because of the loss of food from watermill and/or workshop tiles, but aside from that things remained the same. Which meant that if I could spread my corporation to other civs, I'd be better off than I'd been under SP.
Meanwhile, however, I began to pursue military techs as I built up towards the invasion of the other continent.
Yeah, I could have waited on Fascism, especially thanks to espionage, which would warn me if another civ threatened to finish it. But I had three military cities, and I thought that having a military academy in the third one would allow me to build more units there:
And Rome finished another wonder that would be very helpful for the domination push:
I kept pursuing military techs, including this vital one for modern warfare:
Meanwhile, I needed to use Spies in order to spread Sid's Sushi overseas:
It didn't help much. I shoved both Sury and Gilgamesh into Free Market, but neither of them spread the corporation and they both switched back to State Property as soon as they could. I was able to spread the corp to Liz, however, who ran FM the whole time. Later in the round, Sury switched to Environmentalism and then started spreading Sid's Sushi like crazy. Despite my best efforts to generate a Great Engineer, I failed, and Washington founded Mining Inc. rather than me.
Anyway, all these military techs and resulting units I was building showed up in the power graph:
I upgraded several units, including upgrading all of my city raiders to Infantry and my highly-promoted Privateers to Destroyers. Yes, I had obtained Combustion as well. My tech path for this round, if you're curious, was Steam Power, Medicine, Assembly Line, Railroad, Fascism, Electricity, Industrialism, Combustion, Flight, Radio, Refrigeration, Mass Media, Plastics, Ecology, Satellites, Advanced Flight, Laser.
Gilgamesh was obviously paying attention to all of this. He shifted his slider and began chasing me around the tech tree. Apparently the AI read evil intent into my tech pursuits and power build-up and responded accordingly. Not that it was going to help too much.
I had units in position and felt I'd waited more than long enough. It was time to declare war.
To be continued...
I began the round determined to finish the game. Things didn't turn out that way.
The first thing I had to do, though, was finish off Rome. So the stack of ships and land units that had just finished off Justinian turned south and headed to Augustus' island refuge:
Needless to say, Augustus didn't last long, but my UU did get a bit of a workout:
Overall I'd have to say that Spain's UU is good, but not one of the standout units in the game. It's still possible to run into a lot of melee units with them, as demonstrated above. However, they don't compare to Spain's UB, which I regard as the killer item in Isabella's arsenal.
Back home, I used production powerhouse Rome to finish its first of several wonders:
By this point, this began to feel a lot like a Monarch level game for me. I was, basically, dominating, out-teching the AI and building any wonders my little heart desired. Gilgamesh had the potential to be a real threat based upon his size, but he chose to pursue a cultural win and that was a risk that cost him dearly.
Of course, he wasn't paying the price yet, but Augustus did:
I also took the barb city on that island and didn't break it away into a colony. Since I'm trying for a domination win, I wanted to try to hang on to as much land as I could, provided I could afford it. Since I have a commanding tech lead, I decided that I certainly could.
However, that was while running State Property, and that was about to change.
With Medicine now in hand, I decided to found Sid's Sushi in the Wall Street city, Barcelona:
That called for a civics change...
As it turned out, that didn't cost me too much. I did have to spread Sid's Sushi to a couple of cities in a hurry--Seville in particular--because of the loss of food from watermill and/or workshop tiles, but aside from that things remained the same. Which meant that if I could spread my corporation to other civs, I'd be better off than I'd been under SP.
Meanwhile, however, I began to pursue military techs as I built up towards the invasion of the other continent.
Yeah, I could have waited on Fascism, especially thanks to espionage, which would warn me if another civ threatened to finish it. But I had three military cities, and I thought that having a military academy in the third one would allow me to build more units there:
And Rome finished another wonder that would be very helpful for the domination push:
I kept pursuing military techs, including this vital one for modern warfare:
Meanwhile, I needed to use Spies in order to spread Sid's Sushi overseas:
It didn't help much. I shoved both Sury and Gilgamesh into Free Market, but neither of them spread the corporation and they both switched back to State Property as soon as they could. I was able to spread the corp to Liz, however, who ran FM the whole time. Later in the round, Sury switched to Environmentalism and then started spreading Sid's Sushi like crazy. Despite my best efforts to generate a Great Engineer, I failed, and Washington founded Mining Inc. rather than me.
Anyway, all these military techs and resulting units I was building showed up in the power graph:
I upgraded several units, including upgrading all of my city raiders to Infantry and my highly-promoted Privateers to Destroyers. Yes, I had obtained Combustion as well. My tech path for this round, if you're curious, was Steam Power, Medicine, Assembly Line, Railroad, Fascism, Electricity, Industrialism, Combustion, Flight, Radio, Refrigeration, Mass Media, Plastics, Ecology, Satellites, Advanced Flight, Laser.
Gilgamesh was obviously paying attention to all of this. He shifted his slider and began chasing me around the tech tree. Apparently the AI read evil intent into my tech pursuits and power build-up and responded accordingly. Not that it was going to help too much.
I had units in position and felt I'd waited more than long enough. It was time to declare war.
To be continued...
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
You can't leave a cliffhanger like that on an ALC!
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 9: 1838 AD to 1938 AD, Part 2
Part of the reason I declared war on Gilgamesh is because everyone else did. Guess I'm a bit of a copycat.
Basically, Sury was the master of Elizabeth and Washington, so when he declared war, they did too.
Well, I already had my units in position, so I figured it was high time. As you can see, Gilgamesh was researching Radio, so he wasn't terribly far behind me in techs. However, he appeared to lack the resources to build more modern units or upgrade them, and I suspect he had a lot of his forces oriented towards fending off Sury, because London was not as strongly defended as it was at the start of the previous round.
I used the Battleships and Destroyers to remove the cultural defense then began attacking from aboard ship with Artillery. The first one was pretty much a guaranteed suicide:
Yes, these were mostly new Artillery units. Most of the veteran units that had been upgraded from Trebuchets to Cannons and now to Artillery were on the other coast.
The next one got better odds:
And in fact, it survived its attack. The next Artillery attack was practically guaranteed success:
I kept attacking with Artillery until I basically wasn't allowed to, meaning I had done as much damage to each defender as was allowed. That made the follow-up attacks by the Marines a foregone conclusion:
So London fell in the first battle of the war, minimizing the effects of the Statue of Zeus on my war weariness. London contained a few other wonders besides, making it a very worthwhile conquest and one I wouldn't dream of razing:
The problem with capturing it is that Gilgamesh vassalized Elizabeth instead of wiping her out, so London has several English cities around it. Meaning it was swamped by both Sumerian and English culture. Winning a domination victory by taking over this continent is going to be tough.
Meanwhile, on Sumer's west coast, I had another armada poised to deliver the second half of my combination punch.
This stack contained most of my upgraded units, who had been cooling their heels on that former Roman island just west of here. I kept Lagash with a mind to basing several planes there. As you can see, I also had a couple of Carriers loaded with Fighters. With BtS' new restrictions on how many planes you can base in a city (4 without an airport, 8 with), Carriers are now more important than they used to be. I also noticed that you can base as many Fighters as you want in a city if the Carriers are there to "host" them--though this has apparently been fixed in the brand-new patch that was just released.
Anyway, after I captured two cities in the very first turn at war, Sury decided to prove he was no slouch either and promptly captured York.
Obviously the BtS AI still loves Cavalry.
Well, that complicates things a little. It was increasingly looking like I was going to have to war against Sury and his lackeys to win the game once Gilgamesh.
I kept at it, taking one Sumerian city after another. On the east side of the continent, I chiefly focused on the blitz, softening up each city with Fighters and Bombers and then moving in with Tanks, then dropping in Paratroopers to secure the city.
I gave my Paratroopers a variety of promotions, but I'm beginning to think I should just give them City Garrison and leave the Combat and Pinch promotions to the Marines. Oh, and if you see a few Marines and Paratroopers with Medic I, I built the Red Cross in my third military city, Arretium.
Meanwhile, back home, I received one of my absolute favourite late-game random events, especially when I'm running Free Market for corporations.
The effect was amazing; it resulted in almost an additional +200 gold per turn and allowed me to raise the science slider from 50% to 60%. Nifty!
I kept capturing Sumerian cities:
I was desperate to give my captured cities some breathing room, but the western ones kept getting swamped by English culture even as I removed the Sumerian cultural borders. I was looking forward to capturing another city on the west coast that would have opened up a lot of territory for my own culture over there when, suddenly, peace broke out.
Yes, Gilgamesh is the latest addition to Sury's collection of vassals. I thought the BtS AI was prejudiced towards capitulating to the civ that had given it the biggest spanking, and I thought that was me. Oh well.
So this was the complication I referred to. In order to win by domination now, it will have to be Spain vs. the world. I'm sure Isabella and I are up to the task. The question is how to do it. I was starting to spread my forces out a little thinly between the captured Sumerian cities as Gilgamesh's power rating continued to drop and it became obvious that he had very few modern units to throw against me. However, if I declare war now, then all four civs on the other continent can throw their units at me. They may not, but if I try to hold on to all the cities I've captured I may lose all of them. And several units as well.
The way I see it, I have three choices:
Part of the reason I declared war on Gilgamesh is because everyone else did. Guess I'm a bit of a copycat.
Basically, Sury was the master of Elizabeth and Washington, so when he declared war, they did too.
Well, I already had my units in position, so I figured it was high time. As you can see, Gilgamesh was researching Radio, so he wasn't terribly far behind me in techs. However, he appeared to lack the resources to build more modern units or upgrade them, and I suspect he had a lot of his forces oriented towards fending off Sury, because London was not as strongly defended as it was at the start of the previous round.
I used the Battleships and Destroyers to remove the cultural defense then began attacking from aboard ship with Artillery. The first one was pretty much a guaranteed suicide:
Yes, these were mostly new Artillery units. Most of the veteran units that had been upgraded from Trebuchets to Cannons and now to Artillery were on the other coast.
The next one got better odds:
And in fact, it survived its attack. The next Artillery attack was practically guaranteed success:
I kept attacking with Artillery until I basically wasn't allowed to, meaning I had done as much damage to each defender as was allowed. That made the follow-up attacks by the Marines a foregone conclusion:
So London fell in the first battle of the war, minimizing the effects of the Statue of Zeus on my war weariness. London contained a few other wonders besides, making it a very worthwhile conquest and one I wouldn't dream of razing:
The problem with capturing it is that Gilgamesh vassalized Elizabeth instead of wiping her out, so London has several English cities around it. Meaning it was swamped by both Sumerian and English culture. Winning a domination victory by taking over this continent is going to be tough.
Meanwhile, on Sumer's west coast, I had another armada poised to deliver the second half of my combination punch.
This stack contained most of my upgraded units, who had been cooling their heels on that former Roman island just west of here. I kept Lagash with a mind to basing several planes there. As you can see, I also had a couple of Carriers loaded with Fighters. With BtS' new restrictions on how many planes you can base in a city (4 without an airport, 8 with), Carriers are now more important than they used to be. I also noticed that you can base as many Fighters as you want in a city if the Carriers are there to "host" them--though this has apparently been fixed in the brand-new patch that was just released.
Anyway, after I captured two cities in the very first turn at war, Sury decided to prove he was no slouch either and promptly captured York.
Obviously the BtS AI still loves Cavalry.
Well, that complicates things a little. It was increasingly looking like I was going to have to war against Sury and his lackeys to win the game once Gilgamesh.
I kept at it, taking one Sumerian city after another. On the east side of the continent, I chiefly focused on the blitz, softening up each city with Fighters and Bombers and then moving in with Tanks, then dropping in Paratroopers to secure the city.
I gave my Paratroopers a variety of promotions, but I'm beginning to think I should just give them City Garrison and leave the Combat and Pinch promotions to the Marines. Oh, and if you see a few Marines and Paratroopers with Medic I, I built the Red Cross in my third military city, Arretium.
Meanwhile, back home, I received one of my absolute favourite late-game random events, especially when I'm running Free Market for corporations.
The effect was amazing; it resulted in almost an additional +200 gold per turn and allowed me to raise the science slider from 50% to 60%. Nifty!
I kept capturing Sumerian cities:
I was desperate to give my captured cities some breathing room, but the western ones kept getting swamped by English culture even as I removed the Sumerian cultural borders. I was looking forward to capturing another city on the west coast that would have opened up a lot of territory for my own culture over there when, suddenly, peace broke out.
Yes, Gilgamesh is the latest addition to Sury's collection of vassals. I thought the BtS AI was prejudiced towards capitulating to the civ that had given it the biggest spanking, and I thought that was me. Oh well.
So this was the complication I referred to. In order to win by domination now, it will have to be Spain vs. the world. I'm sure Isabella and I are up to the task. The question is how to do it. I was starting to spread my forces out a little thinly between the captured Sumerian cities as Gilgamesh's power rating continued to drop and it became obvious that he had very few modern units to throw against me. However, if I declare war now, then all four civs on the other continent can throw their units at me. They may not, but if I try to hold on to all the cities I've captured I may lose all of them. And several units as well.
The way I see it, I have three choices:
- Risk it all. Declare war and hope the units I've garrisoned can hold out against anything the AI throws at them. I can always try shifting units to wherever the AI seems to be focusing its attacks, assuming that the cities don't all fall on the first turn of war.
- Pull back. Pull my units out of all but a couple of cities, liberating them back to either Sumer or England. Then declare war and let the stacks absorb the initial attacks before breaking out and re-conquering territory.
- Bulk up. Take a few turns to build units back home and airdrop them into each of the captured cities.
