ALC Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella

[kniteowl]

lmao Why not Nuke them all???

I haven't played any late game wars in BTS yet lol but it sounds like a good idea

 

[gallego]

You have a technological advantage, at least for a bit, so go to 0% science, rush buy a bunch more units, and finish as quick as you can to get a higher score. I think you'll be fine. Well played...you could play the next on Immortal, no?

 

[ratrangerm]

You've committed to a Domination victory, so don't change course.

Without looking at the save itself, I'd say you should bulk up a bit before declaring war on Sury.

Switch to Nationhood and draft units in the cities you have captured. Yes, you'll have a lot of unhappiness, but that's probably your best move. And then get some units built to supplement them. From there, prepare for war and go on every front you can.

You might want to concentrate on Sury and Liz, since they are the two most powerful. Washington probably won't throw much at you, and Gilgamesh isn't likely to throw much either. So focus on Sury and Liz.

 

[Validator]

Sisiutil,

You didn't mention it in your update but Liz started the round as Gilgamesh's vassal (via capitulation). Apparently she lost enough tiles to Sumerian culture to fall below the 50% of original limit and then freed herself. That was a critical development as in addition to making the war against Gilgamesh a 4 on 1 it also allowed Gilgamesh's capitulation since if he still had a vassal he wouldn't have been able to capitulate to anyone.

As it is you've gotten yourself into a tough situation by splitting your invasion force. You also don't seem to have put much emphasis on speed in your attack plans. Fortunately you have enough of a tech advantage and a major power advantage on the remaining civs, so I don't think you'll have any problems finishing this one off.

I would be looking to restart the war ASAP. One thing that could cause problems is that it looks like the AIs are all researching different techs which they could then trade to each other. You should be able to keep a tech lead, but it may be reduced.

How many troops are defending York and Eridu? If you could take those cities on the first turn of the war it would help remove a lot of the cultural pressure from some of the cities you've captured. It doesn't look like Liz has any troops in her southern cities that could make a counter-attack so you shouldn't have anything to worry about from that direction, but you'll probably want to take those cities quickly to remove the cultural pressure.

I would recommend that you switch to Police State. In addition to it's reduced WW it also offers a +25% to military production. At this point you really should be focusing almost entirely on military builds.

 

[Tennyson]

My suggestion is to use your carriers and Navy and pursue a resource deprivation strategy. Get rid of their oil and horses and bomb the living crap out of anything that gets near one of your cities. Since it won't be moving at speed 2 (after you reduce his initial rush) you'll have plenty of time to reduce their attack stacks. Raze any city of theirs that has cultural influence near you. Plant settlers later if you have to for the win.

Once you've gotten rid of their resources you can use your fighters to constantly harrass anything that peeks it head out of a city, while your bombers create a no-man's land that he can't cross. And you own the seas. Invade and raze any coastal city with decent production. Especially in their backfield.

You have the production, you have the technology. Forget building, forget capturing wonders, just dominate.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

I believe this is one rare occasion where nukes are actually necessary (and not just overkill). Bulk up your forces while going for nukes, you'll probably have to use your airforce to quickly destroy their uranium. Attacking now would be a waste. Catch your breath, then set the planet on fire.

 

[Bobbalouie]

I didn't do the numbers, but it might be possilbe to break Gilgamesh's vassalage by liberating the cities you took from him. He's already high enough for the land required, at 38% for the population requirement. If you can get him to break it off, then you can go to war with him again, and Surry most likely wouldn't vassalize him again. And if Surry does join the war again, bribe him to make peace with Gil.

 

[mystyfly]

If you continue war you should focus first on Survy. When his land shrinks, his vassals are able to free themselves. If necessary, you may declare peace with Lizzy/Gilgamesh/Washington, temporarily. So you won't be facing attacks all around you...

MfG Mystyfly

 

[NaZdReG]

you have 10 turns of mandated peace right now.

begin airlifting all non essential garrisons to your stacks overseas. switch to 100% military builds and rush buy as you can.. get those airlifted over. prepare to replace your garrisons at home in the following couple of turns.

attack the AI the MOMENT you are able to and see if you can get galgamesh to break away from the bloc by reducing his land below 50% of its current volume.

you should be able to drop 2-3 tanks per turn into whatever city is relevent.. I would strongly consider rush buying some airports on the new continent.

NaZ

 

[popejubal]

One thing that you absolutely need to do is make sure that this game is over before Mass Media gets the UN built. With all those vassals, Sury looks to be a lock for both SecGen and for world leader in the UN.

You'll be going to war again either immediately or very soon. No matter which you choose, don't forget to switch to Mercantilism since you won't be getting any foreign trade anyway.

Eliminate Liz from the game early in the war and then you don't have to worry about her culture. You can focus on fighting military units instead of military units and cultural pressure.

My tactical suggestion for winning the war: keep the peace for long enough to build an Airport in London and maybe a little longer to allow the War Weariness counter to reset back to 0 for the next war. Besides the Airport, the only building worth having in London would be a Hospital for the additional healing bonus that gets added to your units. Build a decent stack of defensive units for London. It doesn't matter how many of your other cities fall on that continent as long as London survives. War Weariness will cripple all of the opposing civs before too long and you can refuse to grant peace for as long as you'd like. Allow the other civs to come and attack you. You have Artillery and Marines and you'll have a very big stack of Tanks before long. With Bombers and Fighters in the mix, you can decimate any stack that the AI decides to send against you except for ones that come in through a Naval invasion (and that -50% attack penalty is too much for the AI to reasonably overcome if you build your London defenses appropriately).

The only "foreign" attacking that you need to do is wiping Liz off the map and you can even choose to Raze cities instead of keeping them since you won't want the extra cities to defend and pay for. After the AI civs have mostly worn themselves out, go forth and conquor. They'll have serious happy problems because of attacking you with the Statue of Zeus and you'll have little if any happy problems because Liz (the only person you've been seriously fighting in "foreign" territory) is no longer a civ, so you have no from her. Once you are ready and you go forth, Razing enemy cities left and right, you just have to wait for enough enemy cities to be lost that you would win the game IF you had cities in those locations.


At that point, send forth the horde of settlers that you've built along with 1 Sid's Sushi exec each and build a horde of worthless cities. The expense per turn from those cities will be immense because of the lack of courthouses and all, but you only need to pay for them for 1 turn (maybe 2 if you need a second border pop) since you'll get so much culture from the Sid's Sushi. Win on the next turn when all the borders pop and you claim enough of the continent to go over the win %.


The only real way I can see you losing now is if Sury builds the UN. If that happens, you obviously MUST attack and Raze the city that contains the UN.

 

[Kietharr]

Agreeing with the majority here, you've got 10 good turns to prepare for the war. 0% research to build up some gold, rush buy, draft, whip, do everything you can to get more units in the field. Allow Surry to waste his giant cavalry SoD attacking your cities. Run towards his capital city while working on nukes. Weaken him or his vassals enough so that the bloc breaks up, nukes can help you accomplish this. In one of my earth map games I capulated China for a victory without sending a single unit at it, I just nuked it back to the stone age.

 

[Gooblah]

You have a big enough tech lead to stay at 0% research for 10turns.
As I see it. you have 5 main priorities:
1) Tech to Fission. Fission (not sure about BTS) enables Manhattan Project. Build that ASAP and create a few Tactical Nukes or full-blown ICBMs on Augutus's Island. Again, this should be a secondary staging point.
2) Create a Carrier Fleet or at least 10 bombers. Use these to destroy sources of iron, uranium, horses, and aluminum in the first turn of war. This will prevent Tanks, airplanes, or Cavalry from being built. Consistently attack these areas to make sure Pastures and Mines aren't going up.
3) Take out Elizabeth. She is the weakest player (I think), and closest to your lands. Kicking her out of the game will make life a lot easier.
4) Build Transports and fill em up with Settlers. A Settler rush, combined with Execs should give a good land boost. Simply go with scorched earth. Burn down all cities except for the good ones, then Settle there your self after killing Surya, so Khmerian (? is that how its done?) culture doesn't overwhlem your cities. Then settle SSCo there and pump culture to 100%. Domination will be easier.
5) This is the game-based luck priority. In the event Surya builds the UN, you'll have a major problem. Rush all your units there via land or sea and raze the city. Then spread out from there. The UN is based on population, and DipV is between you and Sury. Washington and Elizabeth love Sury, so they'll vote for him, which means you lose, which sucks horribly...

 

[Validator]

you have 10 turns of mandated peace right now.

That isn't the case here. Sisiutil was not at war with Survy, so there is no peace treaty between Sisiutil and Survy. He can declare war immediately.

That would probably be a good idea IMO since his captured cities are being choked by enemy culture.

 

[slobberinbear]

It appears that Gilgamesh is the closest to Mass Media of the AI. Would it not make sense to wipe him out first then, to delay the UN? You can't have him tech-whoring to his fellow vassals.

After Gilgamesh is out, I think you have to attack Sury. Hit him hard enough, and the others will devassalize and make a peace with you. I'm not sure George and Liz can do much to your units anyway.

How close/far are you from Domination?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

The only real way I can see you losing now is if Sury builds the UN. If that happens, you obviously MUST attack and Raze the city that contains the UN.

Is that really a danger, when Spain has more than 50% of the world population? Also, hammers spent on the UN are not hammers spent on military. The UN is Ujin e-d'a Sikhunae.

 

[Porphyrius]

Good grief, i guess this proves beyond doubt that "good thigs come to those who wait" philosophy doesnt work in this game.

As for capitulations my experience is that once the AI figures he is losing for sure (and the proper reqs are met) he is willing to be anyones vassal. If it were to make any discrimination it appears to be choosing the one treating him better, usually another AI.

Anyhow, my guess is attacking sooner and advancing faster could could prevent this. I mean much of the point to wait for combustion navy or tanks was to advance fance into Gilgas territory. Infantry was strong enough otherwise...
And to think some folks feel they need nukes as well.

Now lets see swarming from different directions has created an enormous front, however Gilga used up most of his units as his power rating depicts. Plus much of his defenders are an era or more back.
Lets be quick and not sloppy though. You may need a couple of turns to regroup your forces. Try to make a speed 2 stack consistin of tanks and have them attack the interior Gilgas cities. Definitely take his 3 coastal cities through amphibious warfare quickly. You have enough ships/marines for that close enough.

One max two cities of Lizzie will de-vassalize her, so you can negotiate a truce with her to reduce the fronts size. After you solidify your territory where Gilga/Lizzy was reinforcements can be aided by rails/airlifts.

The UN is a non issue, Sis allready is over 50% population and close the limit for domination. Just need some more land. Gilgas mostly.

As for Bobbalouie's plan to isolate Gilga via liberating cities to him, its an intresting idea. The unforunate drawback however is we'd lose almost all foothold on the new world, as likely it need a few cities and we only have 6.
I mean we shouldnt give back London or an inner city, so that leaves what 2?
I'd personally take my chances with what stack Sury sends from the north. After all we are likely to have to mess with Lizzy afterwards anyhow, as we need almost 20% land still.

 

[r_rolo1]

IMHO the S man shoud get some turns ( 5 max ) to put some troops in the other continent and then redeclare, waiting for the major SoD that should appear. Now that we have the control of the SoZ, the simple fact of defeating a AI stack ( sticking to defensive ground ) can be a major blow to them, because of the rampaging WW... then , with the prod abilities of the AI dried out, just push them until we got the necessary land ( ok, easier to say than to do )

About the strange events chain you suffered:

You were victim of two facts ( not related ):
1- Liz breaking free ( already noticed above by other poster )
2- The way AI measures who is winning the war and who made them a bigger damage ( the thing that decides to whom they vassalize ) : they measure both by the number of troops killed. Most likely, when Sury and Gilga started the war, Gilga sent his troops in suicide runs against Sury ( loosing a lot of them )... then the S man cames and takes cities like if there was no tomorrow ( they were lightly garrissoned, so the S man killed not as many units as it was expected ). Gilga decides that he needs to capitulate and checks who had killed more of his troops... and vassalizes to Sury

 

[zienth]

You should have no problem reducing the AI attackers if you declare war. On the first turn of war, move tanks/cavalry one space outside of your cities and pillage down to bare dirt so they can't move cannons/artillery next to your cities and attack in the same turn. Then sit back and let them move their stacks into the kill zones outside your cities and use bombers and artillery to cripple them, and tanks to finish them off. You should be able to take out anything they can throw at you, as long as they can't hit you before you hit them. Once you've taken out their offensive stacks, the rest is cake.

You may need to spend a turn or two redistributing forces so you have sufficient fast forces in each city to be able to do all the the pillaging and still have forces for killing the stacks. You may even want to abandon a city or two if you don't think you have the forces to defend all of them. Even pulling back to one or two cities would work, since they'll throw everything they can at those cities and you'll have enough concentration of forces to handle everything. You do need to make sure you have enough cities to base a decent bomber force, though. Or you may decide you've got enough arty to do the job so you can get by with only a few bombers.

Zienth

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 10: 1938 AD to July, 1950 AD (23 turns)

I began the round by pursuing Fission and, thereby, nukes as my first research target.

Meanwhile, I made some preparations for Spain. vs. everybody and his dog. I moved my amphibious stack near London--or, more to the point, near Warwick. I also kept building units and airdropping them into London and Canterbury, where Airports I bought during a brief stay in Universal Suffrage allowed me to beef up the defenses. I had not yet installed the latest patch, so I was enjoying this last fling with Cristo Redentor's same-turn-civic-change ability. (The patch changes it to a 1 turn wait between civics changes; evidently the game testers thought being able to change civics several times in the same turn was a little overpowered.)

I didn't follow everybody's advice, sorry. I didn't build a batch of Carriers and Fighters in order to pillage the Khmer blocks' strategic resources. That simply woudl have taken too long. Besides, I was anticipating some sort of counter-attack by Sury's forces, so I wanted to focus on defensive units to a great extent.

One I felt that I had everything in place, I went to see Sury, and Validator is correct, I didn't have to wait 10 turns to do this:

As it turned out, I only waited six turns before declaring war.

I focused primarily on Elizabeth's cities, which several of you recommended. This would free up a lot of tiles for my own culture, along with reducing the risk of my captured cities going into revolt. This meant I was likely leaving Sury strong enough to mount a counter-attack, but I felt I had adequately prepared for that. Right away, I captured and kept Warwick, the island city.

It would be, I realized, a good airbase--close the the mainland but requiring a concerted effort to capture, one that I'd see coming. Capturing it too a lot of cultural pressure off of London. As did capturing Nottingham, on the very same turn:

This city I razed. I probably could have kept it, but I was anticipating a counter-attack somewhere and wanted to keep my defensive units concentrated in as few cities as possible.

Once Fission was done and the Manhattan Project commenced in Rome, I decided to pursue Robotics.

The main attraction there was Mechanized Infantry, the best defensive unit in the game. Granted, researching Computers would obsolete two of my world wonders (the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret), but research was rapidly becoming unimportant. As it turns out, I could have just turned research off (or at least down to 0%).

Sure enough, the counter-attack came. Most of my forces were in London, so Sury decided to attack me there. Despite all the improvements to the AI, however, it still did the boneheaded thing and attacked from the wrong side of a river.

I lost a couple of units; Sury lost several, especially when I counter-counter attacked out of London to finish off all of his wounded units. I earned another Great General out of this. I had one already from the war against Sumer, paired with a Tank (the "George Patton" referenced above); I paired another GG with another Tank just for fun, and when I earned yet another Great General (obviously the Great Wall was kicking in there), I paired it with a Paratrooper to make it a second MASH unit.

I wasn't standing still on the western portion of the continent either, though my stack of Artillery and Infantry was moving a little more slowly over there.

I also captured and razed the English cities in the tundra on the south coast. That left my amphibious stack without much to do, so I sent them north to raze Houston and San Francisco, two cities Sury had taken from Washington.

Back home, I finished a rather ominous project:

I then started building a couple of ICBMs. BWA-HA-HA!!!

When Computers was done, I changed civics to Free Religion, since there was little benefit to Organized Religion once the SM and UofS were obsolete. The unit, city, and colony maintenance costs were forcing the slider down. I was also running Police State for most of the round. I can confirm that PS + Mt. Rushmore + a Jail does indeed mean absolutely no war weariness in a city. Good to know. Not all of my cities had jails, however, so the happiness from additional religions from FR was helpful, as was the +10% research from each city.

My planes and tanks were, meanwhile, capturing one inland Sumerian city after another (and York, which had passed from England to Sumer to Khmer and finally to me in this game). Then I noticed that Gilgamesh broke away from Sury, and I approached him myself:

This gave me one less enemy to fight and allowed me to focus on finishing off England and then, if necessary, attacking and capturing Khmer territory. I had already captured all the Sumerian cities in that southern third of the continent, and Hastings was the only English city left. Taking it would free up a lot of tiles for Spanish culture. Thanks to 50% of what Gilgamesh had left, I was tantalizingly close to victory:

I had the population, I just needed some more land. So Hastings had to fall and Liz had to die:

That was enough to put me over the top.

Great! All I had to do was wait one turn and victory would be mine. And I didn't have to even use the two nukes I'd built!

Hmmm... that seems like a waste, doesn't it?

Yes, I'm evil. So sue me.

(Isn't it cute the way the uranium resource indicator shows up right in the middle of the mushroom cloud? Okay, maybe "cute" is the wrong word...)

And on the next turn, the world belonged to Spain.

Isabella is pleased... for the most part. She pointed out that I actually didn't need Computers and never did finish Robotics for MechInf, and therefore could have kept running a religious civic, but hey, babe, a win is a win.

Coming up: the postmortem.

 

[JujuLautre]

And there he goes, BTS Emperor domination !

Didn't you start ALC having trouble at Vanilla Prince?