ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[Monkeyfinger]

I changed my mind. I'm convinced he should settle in place now. Looking at it, that puts him on a river, meaning:

All those river tiles get leeve'd up later
He gets +2 health from fresh water, something he really wants because he will have an easy time getting happiness and he has only 1 health resource.

 

[madscientist]

I changed my mind. I'm convinced he should settle in place now. Looking at it, that puts him on a river, meaning:

All those river tiles get leeve'd up later
He gets +2 health from fresh water, something he really wants because he will have an easy time getting happiness and he has only 1 health resource.

I agree about settling inplace, however, I think that the stome may already be considered being on a river, thus automatically hooked up (no need of a road). Reflecting on my earlier advice on Stonehenge, I think this is one of the few times where stone can be built in time to aid in building it, particularly if that Stone is on the river.

 

[Sempronio]

I would move the scout north to reveal extra tile then settle in place or 1N if more resouces appear.
I'd go worker, WB, warrior, WB, settler. Worker first to build camps straight away and for some limited chopping, to provide hammers for following builds.
Techwise I'd say Mining, BW, Mysticism, Masonry, The Weel, Archery (if no copper around), Pottery.
The great spy from GW would be handy. You could infiltrate an enemy and then use the EPs to bring down city defenses while attacking from the sea with amphibious berserker.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Settle in place, for all the given reasons above, commerace, hammers happy etc, but also for the LEVIES MAN........

Archipelago maps are Hammer poor, you CAN'T pass up the opportunity to gain a Levy with 1 hammer per river tile.

I you factored in the Maoi Statutes with this, 2 clams 5F,1H,3c combined with the land tiles etc, its a production POWERHOUSE.

Other cities will NEED THE WONDERS Produced here to be viable. The GLH and the Colossuss, will make your 1 sea food cities pay for themselves.

I've been reading a game report on a Archipelago map, and the author DEMANDED an early scouting to obtain the circumnavigation bonus, as your playing snaky continents, I assume this means 2/3 seperate island masses seperated by ocean, so .......what I just said doesn't matter

Got to think LONG TERM, grow city to happy cap, spam settlers then.

build order, wb*2, worker (camp ele's), warrior, wb(for 2nd city), warrior (2nd city), settler.

Scout, does what a scout does. wb, can scout as well 4U.

Tech's. Stonehenge, for border expansion in new cities, Masonary GW, no barb worries, Pyramids, Sailing GLH, then a run at Poly, Mono. If Mono gone during Poly, switch to Priesthood, build Oracle and do metal casting sling shot, for Colossus. Need wheel, pottery, then writing for libiaries.

Defense, Warriors till GW, then no need as all you'll need is a naval defence of 'trimenes till Astronomy, but then again, same goes for you...Beserkers on a galley...2/galley*5 galley's+1 spies....Hmm

 

[madscientist]

Settle in place, for all the given reasons above, commerace, hammers happy etc, but also for the LEVIES MAN........

Archipelago maps are Hammer poor, you CAN'T pass up the opportunity to gain a Levy with 1 hammer per river tile.

I you factored in the Maoi Statutes with this, 2 clams 5F,1H,3c combined with the land tiles etc, its a production POWERHOUSE.

Other cities will NEED THE WONDERS Produced here to be viable. The GLH and the Colossuss, will make your 1 sea food cities pay for themselves.

I've been reading a game report on a Archipelago map, and the author DEMANDED an early scouting to obtain the circumnavigation bonus, as your playing snaky continents, I assume this means 2/3 seperate island masses seperated by ocean, so .......what I just said doesn't matter

Got to think LONG TERM, grow city to happy cap, spam settlers then.

build order, wb*2, worker (camp ele's), warrior, wb(for 2nd city), warrior (2nd city), settler.

Scout, does what a scout does. wb, can scout as well 4U.

Tech's. Stonehenge, for border expansion in new cities, Masonary GW, no barb worries, Pyramids, Sailing GLH, then a run at Poly, Mono. If Mono gone during Poly, switch to Priesthood, build Oracle and do metal casting sling shot, for Colossus. Need wheel, pottery, then writing for libiaries.

Defense, Warriors till GW, then no need as all you'll need is a naval defence of 'trimenes till Astronomy, but then again, same goes for you...Beserkers on a galley...2/galley*5 galley's+1 spies....Hmm

I agree with most of what you say except the Maori statues. I think it's overkill.

Let's think about it, if he settles in place has has stone, two elephant resources (3 hamemrs each), and at least 2 minable hills. That is plenty already as he will likely be working sea tiles very late in the game except for the 2 seafood which would be a waste of an essential wonder.

I say save the statues for a heavy watered city that has a little production. Build the statues there (with help from stone) and also build West Point. That would be a turbo navy city. The HE can go in a land based city if he gets one, or even the capital if production sites are very limited.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Loaded up the save, stone is on the river, but you need Sailing to enable trade via rivers/coast.

Even so, I'd still settle in place, as EXTRA PRODUCTION from Quarry, and 2nd Elephant, far out way's the production boost from Maoi statutes, which need to be built BEFORE production bonus happens, then only 1 hammer / worked tile..

Happy cap of 10, ivory, rep and religion, gives 10 hammers from sea tiles only, or 14, against settle in place and have 10 from 3 tiles ONLY..2 ELE'S AND 1 QUARRY.

 

[oyzar]

He can still get leevy on the stone hill... The extra production he get from the stone in the early game is so insane it is not even close in where to settle... Just do the numbers and you will see that he will have alot more production total over the course of the game... He can always build workshops...

Spoiler :

and his island isn't exactly lacking in hammers...

He will be size 7+ before he can manage to get the extra hills in the starting position to matter.. Which likely means monarchy and hence more like 100+ turns away which is 200 hammers if you don't count the cumulative effect the hammers have building workboats, workers and settlers... It might even out by the end of the game but early hammers are worth way more cause of the cumulative effect and as such settling in place will never catch up to settling on the stone hill.. He also gains 2 clams which is quite nuts with financial... Allowing the capital to go from ok food to nice food and hence beeing able to run specialists.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

You have any idea how hard it is to build the Maoi statues in a low production city? Sure the payoff's nice once you manage it, but.... god. So many wasted turns.

Maoi in a water heavy capital is always a very smart move because that way, the Maoi hammers benefit from Bureaucracy.

 

[oyzar]

With elephants + stone + the starting title + the plains hill building the moai statues won't be much of a problem...

 

[madscientist]

You have any idea how hard it is to build the Maoi statues in a low production city? Sure the payoff's nice once you manage it, but.... god. So many wasted turns.

Maoi in a water heavy capital is always a very smart move because that way, the Maoi hammers benefit from Bureaucracy.

But he has stone so it goes twice as fast. All you need is maybe 2 production sites or even some forrests.

The capital is not all that water heavy, as he has lt's of nice rivers, hills and land resources. If he builds some early wonders in teh capital I think the National epic should go there. Also usually the capital is an excellent city for oxford and/or the ironworks. Those two world wonders work much better with buracracy I think in the long run.

I think it's a waste to build the Maori there.

 

[madscientist]

With elephants + stone + the starting title + the plains hill building the moai statues won't be much of a problem...

I don't think building them is the issue, it would go very fast. My problem is he will get little return from them. They may take longer in another city but will give a better return.

 

[oyzar]

If he can get enough health resources together only happiness will be a problem for working as many 4 commerce 1 hammer 2 food titles as possible(with colossus though).. Of course cottages are still probably better...

 

[madscientist]

If he can get enough health resources together only happiness will be a problem for working as many 4 commerce 1 hammer 2 food titles as possible(with colossus though).. Of course cottages are still probably better...

But he will get that output from any coastal city. He already has the land in the capital and doesn't need the statues.

 

[oyzar]

Capital gives bureaucracy...

 

[Llacheu]

What about moving the scout SE of the settler 1st ? Who knows, the spot 1S of the settler starting position might be very interesting too

I'd rather not commit to building the Moai statues right now, there might be better places for them later on.

 

[madscientist]

Capital gives bureaucracy...

Again, my point is he would need the statues even less. He would still need to work those tiles, at the expence of better land tiles, at least until the late game.

Building the earliest national wonder and then waiting until mid-game to fully exploit it doesn't make much sense to me.

If he builds it on another sea tile rich, limited production (I am not talking an isolated island), he will be working more hammered sea tiles. He'll need more than one production city in the game, the statues pretty much guarentee him a second one.

 

[absimiliard]

Madscientist makes excellent points. I second them and move we ask Sisi not to waste time on an early Moai statues.

 

[oyzar]

The earlier he get them up the better they would be... They would at minimum provide +4 hammers from the 4 clams anyways... 5 food 1 hammer 3-4 commerce from a title is pretty damn good... I am not saying he should get it before he have finished settling his island or anything but it should be a consideration to put them in the capital at least(of course oxford + NE might be way better)...

 

[Munch]

You have any idea how hard it is to build the Maoi statues in a low production city? Sure the payoff's nice once you manage it, but.... god. So many wasted turns.

Maoi in a water heavy capital is always a very smart move because that way, the Maoi hammers benefit from Bureaucracy.

True, I just think there are better National Wonders to go in this capital. Because it's archipelago, there is bound to be a city with entirely (or almost entirely) water tiles surrounding it.

PS. If I don't have any other task for him to do, I like to use a Great Engineer to rush Maoi statues in a 1-tile or so island, rather than wait 250 turns or whatever it is.

 

[oyzar]

He still get fresh water bonus from settling on the stone...